Need Some Opinions On This Matter

[mumtoshelley]

I own a 2 year 10 month old old female golden retriever named Shelley when she was younger she was very good with other dogs loved playing etc. But i've noticed since she is getting older she has started putting her bristles up and barking at other dogs. At obedience she actually snapped at a 4 month old female golden retriever puppy. She has gotten a bit worse since she got into a fight with my aunties female jack russell cross fox terrier. My aunties dog Lady keeps jumping up at Shelley and barking in her ears and snaps at her sometimes. Now when another dog goes to play with her she gets all tensei tell her gentle but before i notice it Shelley snaps at them which i then tell her No.

I was wandering if theres anything i can do to let her know it is alright to play with other dogs? The trainers at the obedience club where no help they just said keep your distance from other dogs, I don't see how that is going to fix the problem. If anything i think it will make Shelley more aggerssive towards other dogs.

Any information on how to break Shelley of this would be very helpful, I do not want her to be aggerssive towards other dogs.

[poodlefan]

I own a 2 year 10 month old old female golden retriever named Shelley when she was younger she was very good with other dogs loved playing etc. But i've noticed since she is getting older she has started putting her bristles up and barking at other dogs. At obedience she actually snapped at a 4 month old female golden retriever puppy. She has gotten a bit worse since she got into a fight with my aunties female jack russell cross fox terrier. My aunties dog Lady keeps jumping up at Shelley and barking in her ears and snaps at her sometimes. Now when another dog goes to play with her she gets all tensei tell her gentle but before i notice it Shelley snaps at them which i then tell her No.

I was wandering if theres anything i can do to let her know it is alright to play with other dogs? The trainers at the obedience club where no help they just said keep your distance from other dogs, I don't see how that is going to fix the problem. If anything i think it will make Shelley more aggerssive towards other dogs.

Any information on how to break Shelley of this would be very helpful, I do not want her to be aggerssive towards other dogs.

I don't think she's being aggressive. She's simply intolerant of rudeness.

I strongly recommend you read this He just wants to say hi and that you don't correct her for displaying perfectly natural canine behaviour. Your dog is just like Cream in the article.

She's a mature female who doesn't tolerate what she considers unacceptable behaviour. My advice is to safeguard her from having to deal with it and do what your instructors have said. You can't make a dog like other dogs. You can protect her from having to deal with them. The more you make her have to warn dogs off, the more likely she is to start upping the ante.

Don't let rude dogs or pups get in her face. Problem solved. My guess is all she does is roars and snaps? If that' the case her behaviour is perfectly normal.

Edited March 1, 2011 by poodlefan

[mumtoshelley]

thats the thing She is doing it to most dogs she meets. Normally Shelley is the dog that will get into the other dogs face to play. Its mainly only happened since my aunties dog Lady snapping,barking in her ears.

[poodlefan]

thats the thing She is doing it to most dogs she meets. Normally Shelley is the dog that will get into the other dogs face to play. Its mainly only happened since my aunties dog Lady snapping,barking in her ears.

Things have changed. She's a big girl now.

If you're not keeping the dogs she doesn't want to greet at a distance, she will. Your choice.

[dee lee]

I agree with PF.

My goldie generally could not give a stuff about other dogs and has a low tolerance for pups jumping at her. I am fine with this and when we walk at the offlead park we walk our own path.

There are other regular dogs there playing but aside from the occasional sniff, she will run away from them if they run over to us. If a dog is particular insistent she will grumble and snap a go-away warning.

Onlead, I will only allow another dog to sniff her if she seems to want to.

Actually, now I think about it, just before she was 3 she was her most grumpy with young dogs. She is much more tolerant now and has less issue with jumpy pups.

I dont see it as aggression though, I have had a DA dog and its very different.

[corvus]

I wouldn't simply shrug it off as her growing up. Not if there were negative experiences involved. At any rate, I don't accept that because my dog doesn't like something, snapping is appropriate. To me, if he snaps it means I failed in my job of making sure non-aggressive behaviours work for him. So far it's happened twice and he's 18 months old. And we've managed to narrowly avoid it three or four times. It can be done.

[Gayle.]

My girl Dusty doesn't tolerate rudeness from other dogs. My friend has a young Aussie male who gets in her face and she bares her teeth, growls and snaps at him. Doesn't make contact, but the young bloke backs off for a few minutes before he comes in to try again.....and gets the same reception.

She tolerates our young boy Isaak to a degree, but we've had him since he was 8 weeks old and she took on a motherly role with him. She loves him, but isn't above biting him on the arse if she thinks he needs pulling into line.

How is Shelley off lead with other dogs?

[poodlefan]

I wouldn't simply shrug it off as her growing up. Not if there were negative experiences involved. At any rate, I don't accept that because my dog doesn't like something, snapping is appropriate. To me, if he snaps it means I failed in my job of making sure non-aggressive behaviours work for him. So far it's happened twice and he's 18 months old. And we've managed to narrowly avoid it three or four times. It can be done.

Do you reject the notion that many dogs, as they mature, become less tolerant of others?

Perhaps some explanation of HOW you prevent your dog from snapping at others can be done might assist the OP.

I have a mildly dog aggressive dog who, with a dog in his face that he doesn't know will snap. I don't allow dogs that want to get in his face to do that. But given that he displays all the body language of a avoidance, shows his teeth and THEN snaps, I consider his behaviour to be an entirely appropriate method of reacting to rudeness from other dogs.

[Rebanne]

I wouldn't simply shrug it off as her growing up. Not if there were negative experiences involved. At any rate, I don't accept that because my dog doesn't like something, snapping is appropriate. To me, if he snaps it means I failed in my job of making sure non-aggressive behaviours work for him. So far it's happened twice and he's 18 months old. And we've managed to narrowly avoid it three or four times. It can be done.

or you could turn it around and say you failed the dog in your role of protecting him from being put in the postion that he needed to snap

to the OP dogs do not have to be best buddies with all other dogs, why people think this I don't know. Dogs are pack animals and in the main, only associate with their pack, all outsiders were treated with caution and distrust. Sure people have manipulated dogs temperaments to be more accepting of strangers but dogs are still dogs.

[Rebanne]

I have a mildly dog aggressive dog who, with a dog in his face that he doesn't know will snap. I don't allow dogs that want to get in his face to do that. But given that he displays all the body language of a avoidance, shows his teeth and THEN snaps, I consider his behaviour to be an entirely appropriate method of reacting to rudeness from other dogs.

agree

[2tollers]

My old girl can be a bit grumpy with bouncy in your face dogs but it's because she has a sore back and doesn't want to be jumped on.

[Erny]

More to it than this, but just to point out that there is a difference between keeping your dog away from other dogs and working away from but in the proximity of other dogs. There is much good that can come out of the latter.

[corvus]

Do you reject the notion that many dogs, as they mature, become less tolerant of others?

No.

ETA, but did the dog become less tolerant as they matured, or did they learn to skip milder forms of communication due to lack of effectiveness? I don't know the difference, but I would bet the latter is more common than the former. We meet a lot of dogs with shite communication skills. The times Erik has snapped it's been because his playmate has missed several quite obvious signals. It's a bit of a worry when I can read a dog better than another dog can! My dogs are generally much better at reading strange dogs than I am. That's the way it should be IMO.

Perhaps some explanation of HOW you prevent your dog from snapping at others can be done might assist the OP.

As I said, I make sure they have success with non-aggressive behaviours. If they snap, I missed all the non-aggressive behaviours they tried first and let them go by unrewarded. Before my current dogs I had a very snappy corgi. She was not inherently that way. She learnt to be quick with the air snaps. I accepted that it was who she was at the time, but it wasn't. It was just how she learnt to handle dogs. My youngest dog is very tolerant of things that he hates from other dogs, but when he reaches his limits he switches quite profoundly and suddenly from avoidavoidavoid to not being content until the offending dog has been driven off. In my view, I don't want to continually expect him to tolerate something he obviously really dislikes, even if he will. If I were him, I would find my tolerance becoming ever less over time, or perhaps I would learn to just skip most of the nicer ways of saying "don't" because they don't work real well. I don't want my dog being the one to tell the young 'uns "seriously, DO NOT bite dogs' faces when you're parallel running with them!". However appropriate it may be, I would rather for him that someone listened when he said "I don't like that". I want him to continue to have faith in politeness, even if it's an artificially created and maintained faith.

I have a mildly dog aggressive dog who, with a dog in his face that he doesn't know will snap. I don't allow dogs that want to get in his face to do that. But given that he displays all the body language of a avoidance, shows his teeth and THEN snaps, I consider his behaviour to be an entirely appropriate method of reacting to rudeness from other dogs.

What's appropriate and what I want to reinforce are two entirely separate matters.

Edited March 1, 2011 by corvus

[corvus]

To me, if he snaps it means I failed in my job of making sure non-aggressive behaviours work for him.

or you could turn it around and say you failed the dog in your role of protecting him from being put in the postion that he needed to snap

It amounts to the same thing. The best way to make sure non-aggressive coping behaviours work is to make sure my dogs get the space they want when they display them.

[mumtoshelley]

Shelley also shows the bristles towards other dogs even when offlead, It mainly happens with dogs smaller then herself. She seems fine with dogs her size or bigger. Shelley has been bullied by 2 little dogs both jack russells. 1 jack russell she can't get away from thats my aunties dog Lady. Lady trys to dominate Shelley, If i try to play with Shelley, Lady always runs up and starts barking in her ears. Shelley ingores her but i can see it annoys her. My auntie won't do anything with her dog. Actually if my auntie goes to tell her do no it growls at her. Lady won't do anything with my mums golden Buddy as he has a go at her if she does.

Shelley has way more confidence offlead then she does onlead she actually respons better offlead then she does onlead. I got Shelley from WINTAMIST Contact : Lyn Renn Location : Mangalore VIC She advertises on this forum.

[dee lee]

I would suggest you keep your aunt's dog away from yours.

If your aunt wont do anything about what is obviously bullying behaviour, It's up to you to protect your dog.

Edited March 1, 2011 by dee lee

[Tassie]

I would suggest you keep your aunt's dog away from yours.

If your aunt wont do anything about what is obviously bullying behaviour, It's up to you to protect your dog.

+1 -. Particularly since you suspect, probably correctly, that the rude behaviour from your aunt's dog has led yours to up the ante in warning off. Your dog does not and should not have to put up with rudeness from other dogs, and should not be left to her own devices in telling other dogs so - it's your job to help with that by not allowing her to be put in that situation.

And absolutely, working in the proximity of other dogs is very important - and with some dogs, the distance will be able to be quite close - with little dogs or overly bouncy dogs, you would want to keep more distance. Over time, Shelley will come to understand that you will take action to help protect her from rude dogs, so she will be able to relax a bit more.

But I also totally agree that it's not essential or realistic to expect all dogs to be best buddies with all other dogs, and especially with dogs that have no manners.

[OSoSwift]

I am assuming that your auntie and her dog live with you??

If so you need to lay down the line of what is acceptable to your auntie and her dog.

If Shelley lives with a dog like that all the time then I am not suprised in the least that she is becoming less tolerant, if that was my Dobe bitch it would have gone quite a away past the odd snap and hackles raised. Even my Whippet bitch would have started reacting.

If the dog is showing inappropriate behaviour put it in time out. If your auntie doen't like it tough, she is not doing anything about it!!

[aussielover]

mumtoshelley: do you think it is just "telling off" another dog for getting in her face? That is normal dog behaviour, so long as it doesn't go too far eg. injuring the other dog or prolonged telling off. You also need to be aware that the other dog might retaliate back and end up fighting with Shelley.

If I were you i would not allow her to be with the dogs that seem to annoy her or get in her face. If another dogs bounds up to her, use your body to block the dog by standing between her and the other dog. Ask the owner to control their dog or start walking away from the dog if no owner is in sight.

Really people should control their dogs so they are not running up to random dogs but we can't expect everyone to be perfect lol.

I think today's society does expect dogs to be able to greet each other without any signs of aggression, which perhaps is unrealistic.

You might want to seek some help from a trainer or something, to help Shelley relax around other dogs more, especially considering she has had a bad experience.

[mumtoshelley]

I am assuming that your auntie and her dog live with you??

If so you need to lay down the line of what is acceptable to your auntie and her dog.

If Shelley lives with a dog like that all the time then I am not suprised in the least that she is becoming less tolerant, if that was my Dobe bitch it would have gone quite a away past the odd snap and hackles raised. Even my Whippet bitch would have started reacting.

If the dog is showing inappropriate behaviour put it in time out. If your auntie doen't like it tough, she is not doing anything about it!!

Yes our auntie lives with us. Which makes it hard to try and keep her dog away from mine. I can tell the dog off but the little thing doesn't listen. Shelley has already bitten Lady on the face and left a wound on her cheek, But still the dog continues to do what it wants. My dog can't have toys cause of Lady she rips them apart in small tiny pieces or burrys them. My parents won't do anything about the matter just says one day Shelley will really whack into her. If Lady burrys the toy and Shelley goes to go get it Lady runs up to her and barks in her ear. We had to re arange our whole yard cause of her dog.

I know its normal for a dog to tell off other dogs if there doing something they don't like but to tell off a dog for just coming up saying hello is a bit wrong. This little female golden was being submissive towards Shelley laying on her belly giving Shelley kisses, Then Shelley went to play with the puppy,then when the puppy went to play back Shelley snapped at her. Shelley has never shown any aggerssion towards other dogs, She has always been friendly and wanting to play. For the last 6 months eg ever since my auntie moved in with her dog is when i had problems with Shelley being like this. She is fine with humans altho keeps her distance from them too mainly cause she almost got stolen as a puppy.