Up For Some Breeder Bashing Today?

[Sheridan]

No, because she doesn't specify the type of breeder, whether registered, puppyfarmer or BYB. Do you intend to stand shoulder to shoulder with the two latter or indeed, unethical registered breeders?

Oh, well that is because she is looking at the bigger picture where lables are not the center of world. But if you must bring it down to a lable to understand, then go with pedigree dogs breeders. That should work just fine. Hope that helps.

Again, your interpretation. She doesn't say, 'Oh, I'm looking at the big picture and don't put labels on any of this'. And again, do you intend to stand shoulder to shoulder with BYB and puppyfarmers and unethical registered breeders? Do you just go, 'Oh, dog breeder, must not criticise' no matter what stripe of breeder it is? The dog breeder that crams ten dogs to a cage that has a wire floor and covered in faeces? Are you okay with standing shoulder to shoulder with that breeder?

Sheridan, it just occured to me. She did not say but I am sure she would mean this. I promise you, she was not talking about you, you can complain, bash and lay judgement about dog breeders till your hearts content. OK.

I will certainly complain about the type of breeder I described. I'm just surprised you're wanting to be lumped in with such a person.

[Rebanne]

Sheridan, it just occured to me. She did not say but I am sure she would mean this. I promise you, she was not talking about you, you can complain, bash and lay judgement about dog breeders till your hearts content. OK.

but you don't really know what she meant unless she is your best buddy and talked about this stuff with you

[Rebanne]

I try to remember that in the bigger picture all dog breeders are important and all make their contribution. I have also found that I usually have the very best of conversations and communication with breeders who are very good at what they do even when it is very unlike what I do. I appreciate their skill and I believe they appreciate mine.

Different is not bad.

all dog breeders? even the puppy farmers?

have I missed your answer to my questions?

[shortstep]

I try to remember that in the bigger picture all dog breeders are important and all make their contribution. I have also found that I usually have the very best of conversations and communication with breeders who are very good at what they do even when it is very unlike what I do. I appreciate their skill and I believe they appreciate mine.

Different is not bad.

all dog breeders? even the puppy farmers?

have I missed your answer to my questions?

No I did not see your question.

If you want to define exactly what you are calling a puppy farmer is then I can answer your question.

[Steve]

I think its spot on.

I am dissapointed in this.

Do you really agree with this?

As long as the puppies they produce are healthy, are good specimens of their chosen breed (which is subjective to each individual), and they sell them to good homes, what business is it of ours? Can you say, "NUNYA".

That is, the conditions that the mother lives in means nothing and is none of anyone's business? I find that abhorrant.

I'm not a breeder, but I don't believe that what makes a "good specimen" is subjective to each individual. That is why we have breed standards, dog shows and dog sports - to measure the mark of each dog. The statement above plays to much to the "I think my dog is so pretty so I'll breed it" crowd.

Where does it say the conditions the mother lives in mean nothing?

Of course it means something.And no - me agreeing with the sentiments of the article dont point to any way shape or form of me condoning breeding or housing dogs in substandard conditions.

Test it.

Try and pick a name any name in any breed and tell me that when you say it out loud that someone wont bag them out and tell you why they are rotten.

Pick a group any group of breeders and tell me that there is no one to act as critic and bang a drum against them. Everyone of them can tell you why they are better and why the others are not.

Everyone is an expert and able to judge what someone else's motivations are or how they treat their dogs,whether they test for xyz or not based on whether or not they fit in with their grand view of what a breeder should do to get it right. The breeder may have been getting it right by their dogs and their puppy buyers for decades

but that wont count for much.

[moosmum]

The article could have been better written,but it seems some are deliberatly misreading the sentiments behind it which are I.M.O quite valid.

There's nothing in there about the intent of the rant article. You may be misreading the intent since people can only go on what's written. My reading of it may be wrong but so may yours.

The intent as you call it is where it should be in the first few lines, at least that was how I was taught,

Here is it

Breeder-bashing isn't a new concept. However, with our rights to breed dogs under constant attack from the animal rights terrorists, led by none other than The Humane Society of The United States (which is in no way, shape or form a "real humane society", but rather an extreme animal rights organization), one would think that dog breeders could find some common ground, stick together, and dispense with the superiority complexes. No such luck.

That means, it is about her frustration with the way breeders go about bashing each other, only feeding people like you who have a lot of complaits about purebred dog breeders.

Hope that helps.

No, because she doesn't specify the type of breeder, whether registered, puppyfarmer or BYB. Do you intend to stand shoulder to shoulder with the two latter or indeed, unethical registered breeders?

Like it or not,they are all breeders and maybe there just might be some common ground.

How can the author presume to draw clear lines between them when the collective Dol has never been able to?

Why would she leave out half the equation from her critism? Should it apply only to you?

[Rebanne]

I try to remember that in the bigger picture all dog breeders are important and all make their contribution. I have also found that I usually have the very best of conversations and communication with breeders who are very good at what they do even when it is very unlike what I do. I appreciate their skill and I believe they appreciate mine.

Different is not bad.

all dog breeders? even the puppy farmers?

have I missed your answer to my questions?

No I did not see your question.

If you want to define exactly what you are calling a puppy farmer is then I can answer your question.

first question was all dog breeders, are you happy to stand alongside all dog breeders?

second question was even the puppy farmers and my definiton of puppy farmer is the type that keep the dogs in runs/cages/paddocks with minimum standards of care, poor quality of food, bred every season, no health testing etc. The types featured on the news occasionally.

[Rebanne]

The article could have been better written,but it seems some are deliberatly misreading the sentiments behind it which are I.M.O quite valid.

There's nothing in there about the intent of the rant article. You may be misreading the intent since people can only go on what's written. My reading of it may be wrong but so may yours.

The intent as you call it is where it should be in the first few lines, at least that was how I was taught,

Here is it

Breeder-bashing isn't a new concept. However, with our rights to breed dogs under constant attack from the animal rights terrorists, led by none other than The Humane Society of The United States (which is in no way, shape or form a "real humane society", but rather an extreme animal rights organization), one would think that dog breeders could find some common ground, stick together, and dispense with the superiority complexes. No such luck.

That means, it is about her frustration with the way breeders go about bashing each other, only feeding people like you who have a lot of complaits about purebred dog breeders.

Hope that helps.

No, because she doesn't specify the type of breeder, whether registered, puppyfarmer or BYB. Do you intend to stand shoulder to shoulder with the two latter or indeed, unethical registered breeders?

Like it or not,they are all breeders and maybe there just might be some common ground.

How can the author presume to draw clear lines between them when the collective Dol has never been able to?

Why would she leave out half the equation from her critism? Should it apply only to you?

your kidding right? There is no common ground with me and my dogs and a puppy farmer, unless your claim is that we both produce puppies. But that's where it ends.

[shortstep]

first question was all dog breeders, are you happy to stand alongside all dog breeders?

second question was even the puppy farmers and my definiton of puppy farmer is the type that keep the dogs in runs/cages/paddocks with minimum standards of care, poor quality of food, bred every season, no health testing etc. The types featured on the news occasionally.

Stand along side them where? Like in chruch? or like in court testifying, or in the breed ring?

Next one needs more clarification.

Does it have to be all of those things or just some of them or even one of them.

For example, my neighbor keeps his sheepdogs in pens, and they spend most of their day in the paddocks, they do not health test, but they do have vet care. I do not think he is a puppy farmer. In the past 9 years he has only had one litter, his dogs are well treated, enjoy their life, are fed well and are really very happy. This family has had this line of dogs back to the early 1900's and they even go back to the mid 1800 breeding sheep dogs, they are so interesting to talk to about dogs. Would you consider that a puppy farm?

Edited March 1, 2011 by shortstep

[Steve]

Do you think that laws will discrimminate and define what is a good or bad breeder the way you define them? Will they determine that if you show your dogs and breed only purebred dogs once every couple of years that you will be treated any differently than any other breeder?

I dont want to stand shoulder to shoulder with breeders who I believe are dodgy or even may be dodgy according to what I think a good breeder should do and its why the MDBA was started - because many of us didnt want to be seen to be in the same pond - but that doesnt mean that I think we should be fighting the hell out of each other so we are always a fragmented minority group and we never have a voice when its needed to protect ourselves and our dogs.

I would stand shoulder to shoulder with most people or groups if I thought the end would justify the means and when we have gone in to say our peace we have defended breeders rights and dog owners rights as a whole even though we know some of them are not doing the right thing according to our codes and they are not our members.

I saw registered purebred breeders stand shoulder to shoulder with animal liberation and call for more laws against breeders . Hardly much of an argument left is there in the who will stand shoulder to shoulder with who department.

[Rebanne]

first question was all dog breeders, are you happy to stand alongside all dog breeders?

second question was even the puppy farmers and my definiton of puppy farmer is the type that keep the dogs in runs/cages/paddocks with minimum standards of care, poor quality of food, bred every season, no health testing etc. The types featured on the news occasionally.

Stand along side them where? Like in chruch? or like in court testifying, or in the breed ring?

Next one needs more clarification.

Does it have to be all of those things or just some of them or even one of them.

For example, my neighbor keeps his sheepdogs in pens, and they spend most of their day in the paddocks, they do not health test, but they do have vet care. I do not think he is a puppy farmer. In the past 9 years he has only had one litter, his dogs are well treated, enjoy their life, are fed well and are really very happy. This family has had this line of dogs back to the early 1900's and they even go back to the mid 1800 breeding sheep dogs, they are so interesting to talk to about dogs. Would you consider that a puppy farm?

I gave my defintion of a puppy farmer, which does not fit with what your farmer friend is doing so please stop with the red herrings. I am refering to your comment that I originally quoted, with the main sentence bolded, but it appears you do not wish to answer to it.

[Rebanne]

I try to remember that in the bigger picture all dog breeders are important and all make their contribution. I have also found that I usually have the very best of conversations and communication with breeders who are very good at what they do even when it is very unlike what I do. I appreciate their skill and I believe they appreciate mine.

Different is not bad.

all dog breeders? even the puppy farmers?

so in your opinion all breeders are important and all make their contribution.

I will make it easier for you to answer and only ask one question.

do you really include all dog breeders in your above statement

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

I am not a fan of a two tiered system and I think it is a mistake for CCCQ to implement one. The message this gives the public is that accredited breeders are more special than regular breeders. Additionally, if there are problems with any system, my preference is always to fix it properly not to put another flawed system on top of it.

However, this system was put in place seemingly without too much kicking and screaming from CCCQ breeders.

The issue with the CCCQ thread is that if a member of the public views it they will read that that there are dodgy breeders in the accredited scheme and dodgy breeders in the regular scheme...so who does that leave for them to buy from if they are looking for a reputable breeder?

I am sure not all accredited breeders are dodgy but given that there were no names given in that thread it will be assumed that the non-dodgy breeders could be dodgy.

So I wonder, why are the breeders who are so vehement that they won't join the scheme not doing something about what has happened, apart from castigating dispersions against all Queensland breeders?

ETA

I wonder also whether because the show ring is so competitive whether there will ever be a time when all reputable dog breeders stand together against what is happening.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[shortstep]

I try to remember that in the bigger picture all dog breeders are important and all make their contribution. I have also found that I usually have the very best of conversations and communication with breeders who are very good at what they do even when it is very unlike what I do. I appreciate their skill and I believe they appreciate mine.

Different is not bad.

all dog breeders? even the puppy farmers?

so in your opinion all breeders are important and all make their contribution.

I will make it easier for you to answer and only ask one question.

do you really include all dog breeders in your above statement

What you want is to make me judge and cast blame on other dog breeders.

You want to make me say I think some breeder is a bad person.

Just the idea that I wil not do this seems to really upset you.

I am not going to speak about other breeders in meaningless negative general terms.

This is where we are different and what the topic is all about.

I actually thank you for your participation as I think this has driven home the problem very well.

Edited March 1, 2011 by shortstep

[Sheridan]

I try to remember that in the bigger picture all dog breeders are important and all make their contribution. I have also found that I usually have the very best of conversations and communication with breeders who are very good at what they do even when it is very unlike what I do. I appreciate their skill and I believe they appreciate mine.

Different is not bad.

all dog breeders? even the puppy farmers?

so in your opinion all breeders are important and all make their contribution.

I will make it easier for you to answer and only ask one question.

do you really include all dog breeders in your above statement

What you want is to make me judge and cast blame on other dog breeders.

You want to make me say I think some breeder is a bad person.

Just the idea that I wil not do this seems to really upset you.

I am not going to speak about other breeders in meaningless negative general terms.

This is where we are different and what the topic is all about.

I actually thank you for your participation as I think this has driven home the problem very well.

And again, you're okay with being lumped in with the puppyfarmer who breeds a bitch every season in deplorable conditions and then throws her away? It's amazing that this is okay with you, that you're unwilling to judge such a person because it's meaningless and negative and general. Amazing.

[Rebanne]

I try to remember that in the bigger picture all dog breeders are important and all make their contribution. I have also found that I usually have the very best of conversations and communication with breeders who are very good at what they do even when it is very unlike what I do. I appreciate their skill and I believe they appreciate mine.

Different is not bad.

all dog breeders? even the puppy farmers?

so in your opinion all breeders are important and all make their contribution.

I will make it easier for you to answer and only ask one question.

do you really include all dog breeders in your above statement

What you want is to make me judge and cast blame on other dog breeders.

You want to make me say I think some breeder is a bad person.

Just the idea that I wil not do this seems to really upset you.

I am not going to speak about other breeders in meaningless negative general terms.

This is where we are different and what the topic is all about.

I actually thank you for your participation as I think this has driven home the problem very well.

nope not upset with your answer just less then impressed with your reluctance to actually answer the question. I was not the only one asking the same thing. I'm glad you think all breeders are above reproach, oh hang on you don't think that at all, just the working sheep dog people, the rest of us need the Uni's and the RSPCA to tell us how to do it better.

[BJean]

I am not a fan of a two tiered system and I think it is a mistake for CCCQ to implement one. The message this gives the public is that accredited breeders are more special than regular breeders. Additionally, if there are problems with any system, my preference is always to fix it properly not to put another flawed system on top of it.

However, this system was put in place seemingly without too much kicking and screaming from CCCQ breeders.

The issue with the CCCQ thread is that if a member of the public views it they will read that that there are dodgy breeders in the accredited scheme and dodgy breeders in the regular scheme...so who does that leave for them to buy from if they are looking for a reputable breeder?

I am sure not all accredited breeders are dodgy but given that there were no names given in that thread it will be assumed that the non-dodgy breeders could be dodgy.

So I wonder, why are the breeders who are so vehement that they won't join the scheme not doing something about what has happened, apart from castigating dispersions against all Queensland breeders?

ETA

I wonder also whether because the show ring is so competitive whether there will ever be a time when all reputable dog breeders stand together against what is happening.

I don't think its because of show ring competition, more like the battle of the earnest.

It's got to the point where to say you barely breed is a good thing ie I'm a breeder but I breed only once every decade.

I mean come on.

[BJean]

goodness

double post

Edited March 1, 2011 by lilli

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

I am not a fan of a two tiered system and I think it is a mistake for CCCQ to implement one. The message this gives the public is that accredited breeders are more special than regular breeders. Additionally, if there are problems with any system, my preference is always to fix it properly not to put another flawed system on top of it.

However, this system was put in place seemingly without too much kicking and screaming from CCCQ breeders.

The issue with the CCCQ thread is that if a member of the public views it they will read that that there are dodgy breeders in the accredited scheme and dodgy breeders in the regular scheme...so who does that leave for them to buy from if they are looking for a reputable breeder?

I am sure not all accredited breeders are dodgy but given that there were no names given in that thread it will be assumed that the non-dodgy breeders could be dodgy.

So I wonder, why are the breeders who are so vehement that they won't join the scheme not doing something about what has happened, apart from castigating dispersions against all Queensland breeders?

ETA

I wonder also whether because the show ring is so competitive whether there will ever be a time when all reputable dog breeders stand together against what is happening.

I don't think its because of show ring competition, more like the battle of the earnest.

It's got to the point where to say you barely breed is a good thing ie I'm a breeder but I breed only once every decade.

I mean come on.

Yep I agree lilli, the world has gone mad

[moosmum]

I try to remember that in the bigger picture all dog breeders are important and all make their contribution. I have also found that I usually have the very best of conversations and communication with breeders who are very good at what they do even when it is very unlike what I do. I appreciate their skill and I believe they appreciate mine.

Different is not bad.

all dog breeders? even the puppy farmers?

so in your opinion all breeders are important and all make their contribution.

I will make it easier for you to answer and only ask one question.

do you really include all dog breeders in your above statement

What you want is to make me judge and cast blame on other dog breeders.

You want to make me say I think some breeder is a bad person.

Just the idea that I wil not do this seems to really upset you.

I am not going to speak about other breeders in meaningless negative general terms.

This is where we are different and what the topic is all about.

I actually thank you for your participation as I think this has driven home the problem very well.

And again, you're okay with being lumped in with the puppyfarmer who breeds a bitch every season in deplorable conditions and then throws her away? It's amazing that this is okay with you, that you're unwilling to judge such a person because it's meaningless and negative and general. Amazing.

No one is saying they want to be "stand with" or be "lumped with" bad or unethical practice.They are hoping that good practice can be universaly sought by various groups in the ways that suit them and work for them.That they can clearly see problems within their own groups and work to clean them up.Take personal responsibility for seeing their own group is beyond reproach before pointing the finger at some one else.

The above example may not be a "puppy farm",but it is certainly my idea of a BYBer.Are they unethical? Should we be pushing for laws to make it impossible for them to breed dogs at all because their ideals are not ours? Should THEY be forced to stand with the puppy farmers in their corner?

There are no clear definitions of Registered,Ethical breeders,BYBers or puppy farmers yet.

You can criticise all you want and no doubt find justification with generalizations.Just don't be suprised that they do the same with their criticism of the pedigree show breeders.