drc Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Hello, This is my first post here so I'd like to say Hi to everyone. I'm the owner of an entire male SBT and a de-sexed female AMSTAFF and I'm in desperate need of some advise from fellow dog owners. The issue is with my Amstaff. She is an expert fence jumper to say the least. It's got to the point now where I can't leave her alone even when I'm in the garden with her. As soon as I turn my back or lose sight of her, she's over and away. She has even escaped from the boarding kennels 7ft fence whilst we were on holiday. If this problem wasn't bad enough, she has a very high prey drive and to date has killed the neighbours cat, 3 chickens and more possums than I can count. When we first collected her as a puppy it was obvious she was an aloof dog but we had already paid for sight unseen due to the distance involved. She doesn't show much interest in humans except for when she is barking at them or nipping the backs of their legs (yes another issue to add to the list). She doesn't respond very well to training as she has no real desire to please (unlike our SBT). We have tried different training methods including food rewarding for good behaviour and a shock collar for when she jumps the fence. We used to think the problem may have been boredom so we tried taking her for long runs along the river but she still went AWOL when she got home. The running had to stop as she would run off after roos and we'd spend hours looking for her. I really am stuck as to what to do, this has been going on for years now and it's got to stop. It's effecting our lives and certainly the quality of life of our SBT. Any advise will be much appreciated as I'm at the end of my tether! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysup Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Firstly you need a kennel run with a roof. That is step one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverHaze Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) I would have a solid roofed pen on concrete for when you need to leave her alone, and i would run 2 -3 strands of hotwire around the fence to discourage her from jumping or going near it. Edited February 27, 2011 by SilverHaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) For a chronic escaper who likes to kill small animals and goes over 7ft fences I think the only solution is a secure dog run with a roof over it. Perhaps a good behaviourist/trainer could help you, but it sounds like she's had lots of opportunities to experience the thrill of getting out, so it's probably a pretty entrenched behaviour by now and chronic, long-term, escaping is a hard problem to fix. If you can't do that, the only other option I can see is pts, for the safety of the other animals she may kill and their owners. That would be a horrible decision, but rehoming a dog with her issues would be irresponsible and having her continue to get out is not an acceptable option. Edited to ask - how old is she, how long have you had her and what are your own fences like? Edited February 27, 2011 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I'd recommend kennel run with roof and concrete floor. Then you can relax a little more when you're not out with her, although regular inspection of the run may be necessary if she has a lot of drive to get out she may work the wire to get through. If you want her out in the yard with you, tether her to you, don't give her the opportunity to get over the fence. I'd be looking at trying some drive training with her to funnel some of that energy she has. I'd also be looking to find someone who can work with you on an individual basis who might be able to give you more specific advice on training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Hi - You DO need a secure floored and roofed enclosure for this dog. No question. You also need to enlist the services of the best professional you can find to work with you and your dog .If you need recommendations, just let us know where you are, and someone will probably give you the name of a professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 It sounds like you have exhausted most avenues to deal with this dog. About the only solution to keep her would be for her to be permanently in an enclosed, roofed run, unless you have her on a lead. It would keep her alive but wouldn't be much of a life for her or you. The only other real option is to pts. Sounds harsh but there are plenty of wonderful dogs in the world and no one should really have to put up with one that makes their life a misery. For me, escaping to kill the neighbours cat would have been the end of the line. No one needs that much liability. Next time it could be a small dog being walked on lead by a child. It really doesn't sound like their is any pleasure in owning her. If she was a wonderful affectionate dogs that you had great times with, then any measure to keep her would be worth it, but the reality is there are some dogs that are just not suitable as pets. If they are of suitable breeds, like Labs, BCs, etc, they are usually best placed in detection work when young. Better for the dogs and the owners. Sadly I don't think this would be an option for an older Amstaff. Shelters never rehome chronic fence jumpers, even if they are placid and unlikely to ever kill anything. When I worked for AWL we had to pts a sweet little Spaniel cross the owner had bought from the shelter originally. He surrendered her supposedly for other reasons, but she went straight over the 7' exercise yard fence. When I rang the owner to ask if she had jumped before, he admitted he couldn't keep her in anywhere and that is why she was surrendered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Good post, dancinbcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Good post, dancinbcs. Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Good post, dancinbcs. Agree. Yes it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drc Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Thank you so much for taking the time to comment. We did think about running some electrical fencing but we were advised we could face criminal prosecution if a member of the public got a zap, and that's a risk I'm not willing to take. We live in an small outback town so seeking the assistance of a professional isn't really an option for us. I did phone up a dog training centre in NSW to ask some advise. The trainer said it would be a very hard problem to train out of her, if not impossible. For a while I thought she may make a good pig dog given her pray drive, unfortunately after seeking some advise I was told that given she wasn't stock proof they couldn't take the risk with her. Aside from living in rental accommodation and not being able to build a fully enclosed run, I hate to think of her having to spend the rest of her life on a chain. You see so many dogs around here that spend their whole life on a chain, it's really sad to see. dancinbcs - After the cat incident I did go to the vets and explain the situation. She told me what I didn't want to hear but I appreciated her honesty; "The dog is a liability and it's only a mater of time before she does something else like this ". It's such a hard decision to make and I couldn't bring myself to do it, but here we are a year down the track facing the same issues. You're right when you say about not getting anything back from her. She isn't an affectionate dog, more like a snooty cat in many respects. She is 4 years old now. I can't help but feel like I have failed her. I have successfully trained other dogs but she is not like any other dog I have come across. I knew having her pts was always hanging over us but I just wanted to exhaust all other options, hence my post. Edited February 27, 2011 by drc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I'd personally be investigating a good trainer, and building a good secure run for when she's not with you (on leash or contained in the house). I've heard Jane Harper recommended before, think she's in Queensland. My last dog killed a cat before I adopted him, he also killed birds and small fluffies. It is possible to get that level of prey drive under control. It will be a lot of work to get this sorted out, though. A lot. That kind of thing doesn't turn around overnight. As someone else pointed out, if you can't put the work in, or can't contain the dog, it might be fairer for the dog (and your community) to consider PTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 You can still build a secure run even if you are renting. They sell ready made panels that are easy to dismantle and the bottom can be pavers which are also easy to pick up and take with you but quite secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I can't help but feel like I have failed her. I have successfully trained other dogs but she is not like any other dog I have come across. I knew having her pts was always hanging over us but I just wanted to exhaust all other options, hence my post. Absolutely not. You have made a good effort with her and tried to find a solution. You recognise there is a problem, and there is nothing to suggest that you created that problem. You are taking responsibility. There are many ways that people fail their pets. Allowing the problem to continue is to fail her and to fail the pets of other people. Maybe it was her breeder that failed her, or maybe her nature is just an unfortunate thing. Trust your own feeling if you think she is not normal for that type of breed, because nobody else can really know her like you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 After reading your reply , my gut feeling would be to give her her wings- it is a decision hard to make, and painful to carry out , I know . However, she is not free to enjoy life to the full ... you are continually on edge and worrying , and if you have the other dog who is biddable, social and settled, then he is also being subjected to all sorts of 'bad' vibes. To obtain the services/advice of a good trainer, and to apply that advice will not be a miracle cure, as you are aware ..and will require a lot of time & effort from you. Chaining her may increase her frustration and drive , and cause more problems I do not envy you your position, and hope whatever you decide brings you peace ,and knowledge that you did the responsible thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Thank you so much for taking the time to comment.We did think about running some electrical fencing but we were advised we could face criminal prosecution if a member of the public got a zap, and that's a risk I'm not willing to take. We live in an small outback town so seeking the assistance of a professional isn't really an option for us. I did phone up a dog training centre in NSW to ask some advise. The trainer said it would be a very hard problem to train out of her, if not impossible. For a while I thought she may make a good pig dog given her pray drive, unfortunately after seeking some advise I was told that given she wasn't stock proof they couldn't take the risk with her. Aside from living in rental accommodation and not being able to build a fully enclosed run, I hate to think of her having to spend the rest of her life on a chain. You see so many dogs around here that spend their whole life on a chain, it's really sad to see. dancinbcs - After the cat incident I did go to the vets and explain the situation. She told me what I didn't want to hear but I appreciated her honesty; "The dog is a liability and it's only a mater of time before she does something else like this ". It's such a hard decision to make and I couldn't bring myself to do it, but here we are a year down the track facing the same issues. You're right when you say about not getting anything back from her. She isn't an affectionate dog, more like a snooty cat in many respects. She is 4 years old now. I can't help but feel like I have failed her. I have successfully trained other dogs but she is not like any other dog I have come across. I knew having her pts was always hanging over us but I just wanted to exhaust all other options, hence my post. You have not failed this dog. She is just not a suitable dog for you to own and really should never have been sold. I know of Border Collies that have been given to Corrective Services for use as detection dogs because their otherwise competant owners could not live with them. They are very high drive, aloof dogs, that need to work for hours every day to be happy. They have no interest in hanging around with their owners and are only responsive to a handler that can do hard physical work with them all day. These dogs are owned by otherwise wonderful owners that can handle and train most dogs, but some dogs just don't fit into the normal mould. They get worse with age so the longer you hold on the more entrenched the problems become. Luckily most of us with BCs know about the detection dog option so when a really difficult dog comes along we are able to talk owners into placing the dog in a more appropriate situation while it is still young, usually before 2 years. The problem with yours being an Amstaff is her strength, agility and jaw power, combined with a strong prey drive. An independant, very hyper, aloof temperament combined with those phyical attributes means there really isn't anywhere for her to fit into modern society. Do not put a fence jumper on a chain. She will manage to hang herself or the frustration could make her aggressive. Make the hard decision, get on with your life and maybe get another happy, friendly SBT to keep your boy company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drc Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Thanks so much for all your replies guys, I really appreciate it. Looks like we have some tough decisions ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Thanks so much for all your replies guys, I really appreciate it. Looks like we have some tough decisions ahead. No, sorry, no tough decisions here. Sad as it is, you know what you need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Flying Furball Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Thanks so much for all your replies guys, I really appreciate it. Looks like we have some tough decisions ahead. No, sorry, no tough decisions here. Sad as it is, you know what you need to do. Sad = tough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil laughs Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 The only other real option is to pts. Sounds harsh but there are plenty of wonderful dogs in the world and no one should really have to put up with one that makes their life a misery. For me, escaping to kill the neighbours cat would have been the end of the line. No one needs that much liability. Next time it could be a small dog being walked on lead by a child. It really doesn't sound like their is any pleasure in owning her. If she was a wonderful affectionate dogs that you had great times with, then any measure to keep her would be worth it, but the reality is there are some dogs that are just not suitable as pets. AMEN AMEN AMEN I'm sorry you have such a horrible decision to make... But Dancinbcs's post was perfectly put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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