Debarked Dog?

[ishka81]

Hi All,

We have just this weekend adopted a rescued 2 year old death row labrador who the shelter suspected had been debarked, but so far we have been unable to confirm.

Is anyone able to enlighten me as to how we can tell? He sounds like he has a bad case of laringytis, very hard to describe, his bark is definately not a whisper, there's some sound to it, it's been suggested that he may have kennel cough from being held at the RSPCA kennels, but he doesn't have any evidence of other cold' like symptoms, he's happy, boisterous, clear eyes, clear nose, etc.

I've called our vet and made an appointment for him to just be looked at tomorrow, but nearly had my head bitten off by the receptionist when i explained the situation as she thought I was asking for him to be booked in for debarking, and when I further explained she said this was highly unlikely as debarking is illegal in Australia and vets would be deregistered if they were to perform the procedure. Reality is though, that people do the wrong thing all the time, so to make a blanket statement that there's no way is a bit unrealistic in my view.

He hadn't been desexed by whoever his previous owners were (no real idea of his history) and was only desexed last week, it doesn't make sense to me that you would go to the effort of having your dog debarked but not desexed. Really murky about this one.

Does anyone have any advice as to whether or not the vet will be able to tell when they check his throat? Is there any other way that I'll be able to tell? I really don't want him ending up on antibiotics when I go because they cant tell one way or the other and decide to be safe, when he's just had this procedure done at some point in his life and it's now just the way he is.

I also have a feeling i'm going to be facing some judgement in years to come from people who hear him and think we're the ones who put him through this, not that I care, but I'd like to have a concrete explanation!

[persephone]

debarking is able to be done by vets in some situations, with vet and council red tape sorted, AFAIK. he may well just have a very raspy voice after barking continually while in kennels, or he may have been debarked.

owners may get dog debarked to shut him up , but still keep him entire-

best of luck with him ... and I hope he settles at home.

[MolassesLass]

she said this was highly unlikely as debarking is illegal in Australia and vets would be deregistered if they were to perform the procedure.

Don't listen to this vet nurse again - she's full of crap. It is not illegal to debark a dog in Australia. Most states have a process that must be followed before it is ok (to show that the dog must be debarked or else lose it's life due to nuisance complaints).

Many many dogs are debarked in Australia; some are silent, some are reduced volume, some are just very raspy.

Sorry, I don't know whether a vet will be able to tell from an examination or not.

[poodlefan]

when I further explained she said this was highly unlikely as debarking is illegal in Australia and vets would be deregistered if they were to perform the procedure.

Rubbish. The procedure is legal in most states provided the vet is presented with evidence that debarking is only be resorted to after other methods have failed and after council approval.

Once again misinformation from an animal industry worker that should know better.

If the dog was debarked before you got him, then you aren't responsible for what happened. I'd ignore any comments.

It may be that you'll find out for yourself why the procedure was performed. He might be an incessant barker. A dog not kept quiet after the procedure (to heal) or a not very well performed procedure will leave the dog with a 'voice'.

[Guest Ams]

I have a similar case here with a pei that arrived in care this weekend. He went to the vet yesterday and the vet was able to state he has had some sort of trauma to the trachea which has changed the volume of his bark. He is unable to state categorically the dog has been debarked but has made a note on the file to indicate the dog arrived in care with this pre-existing "injury" in case anyone asks.

[Erny]

This is slightly off topic but I was just letting my mind meander ..... thinking about the Judy Garde -vs- RSPCA incident where the RSPCA seized a dozen of her debarked dogs on the technicality NOT that they'd been debarked, but because they'd been debarked AND exhibited.

So, here we have a dog that has been adopted via the RSPCA (and for that I'm glad for the opportunity the RSPCA gave for this dog to find a good new home and also to the OP for taking the opportunity to give this dog a good new home). I wonder what the stance would be if the OP went and "exhibited" this dog. Would the RSPCA knock on her door with TV crew in tow and seize the dog back again?

As I said .... just musing and is OT to the OP's first post.

I do say well done and good on you to the OP for giving this dog a home and a second chance at a good life.

[Crisovar]

Persephone may have it nailed if he is a chronic barker he may well have barked himself hoarse in the kennels.

On the other hand he could well be a problem barker who has been debarked LEGALLY because of that.

By the way debarking is not cruel or inhuman, he is not suffering or being put through anything if he has indeed been debarked.

[ishka81]

So, here we have a dog that has been adopted via the RSPCA (and for that I'm glad for the opportunity the RSPCA gave for this dog to find a good new home and also to the OP for taking the opportunity to give this dog a good new home).

I do say well done and good on you to the OP for giving this dog a home and a second chance at a good life.

I just thought I'd clarify, that the RSPCA had him on deathrow and the story (so I've been told) is that they were hesitant to allow him to go, as they felt he was untrainable., he was adopted by another organisation based in Melbourne to a specific member as a private adoption after their insistence that they wanted him. And I've adopted him through that dog rescue shelter. I'm not quite sure of the ins and outs of all of that as it's all a bit foggy, our adoption all happened incredibly quickly.

I'm really grateful to give him the opportunity for a good life with us and, so far, he's barking, but not what I would consider excessively, we have a 3 and a half year old female lab who is a good girl and only barks when she has good reason to, and he seems to be following suit, with the exception of getting a bit silly when he sees my kittens in their cat run running around (I'm a foster for another shelter with kittens). So far he's responding well to basic training and I have a dog trainer coming to work with us all next week for an afternoon as a start and dog obedience lined up to begin very soon.

Thanks to those of you who clarified the legalities of debarking as well, I understand that while he's not in any pain or anything, as things are so new, it's still bothering me a little to hear him, as it doesn't really sound natural in my opinion. I'll be asking my vet to make notes on his account as well just in case anything else arises, living in a regional town with lots of busy bodies around I'm expecting something! I'm not exactly an experienced dog owner, our lab is the first dog I've had since I was about 8, so don't really know what I'm doing with medical things, etc! Just doing my best to give them a good quality of life as part of our family.

I'll keep you updated with what the vet says, might have a chat to them as well about what I was advised by their staff, so they're aware, fingers crossed he has only barked himself hoarse!

[lucknow]

I believe debarking may also be performed as a surgical tratment for Laryngeal Paralysis.

My knowledge is pretty sketchy but I wonder if a vet could confirm debarking by examination of larynx under sedation or iv anaesthetic

[JulesP]

The dog I know that has been debarked now makes a horrible noise. Sort of high pitched but hoarse if that makes any sense?? It really isn't any quieter then a normal bark.

[Nekhbet]

dogs can be debarked legally in Australia no worries if the council gives you the OK. He could have been a nusience barker and was debarked but still ended up at the pound.

it doesn't make sense to me that you would go to the effort of having your dog debarked but not desexed.

Sure it does. They want an entire dog that doesnt bark the neighbourhood down and gets the council ranger on their doorstep every second day.

I wouldnt worry about what people think, the vet can have a look down there. If there is no temperature and his bark has been the same since the day he got too the pound then you can wait and see if it is KC. Saying that some dogs just have really different barks.

[Gretel]

A dog I used to look after has a very strange bark. Very hoarse and quieter than usual. If I didn't know his history I'd assume he was debarked. His owner has had him since he was a pup and that is just his bark. He is a bit of a barker so lucky he is a quieter one

[oakway]

This is slightly off topic but I was just letting my mind meander ..... thinking about the Judy Garde -vs- RSPCA incident where the RSPCA seized a dozen of her debarked dogs on the technicality NOT that they'd been debarked, but because they'd been debarked AND exhibited.

So, here we have a dog that has been adopted via the RSPCA (and for that I'm glad for the opportunity the RSPCA gave for this dog to find a good new home and also to the OP for taking the opportunity to give this dog a good new home). I wonder what the stance would be if the OP went and "exhibited" this dog. Would the RSPCA knock on her door with TV crew in tow and seize the dog back again?

As I said .... just musing and is OT to the OP's first post.

I do say well done and good on you to the OP for giving this dog a home and a second chance at a good life.

You took the thoughts right out of my mind.

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

If your girl has not been de-barked, and the dog in question has then you should be able to tell the difference

[Stitch]

If the dog has recently been desexed then when they were doing the desexing the vet should/could have noticed any problems with the airways.

Debarked dogs often have restricted airways due to the scarring - I don't suppose it happens all the time but I would have thought the vet at the time would have noticed the difference between a debarked dog and one that wasnt.

[ishka81]

We still don't know, the RSPCA vet did his desexing, and there's a general lack of information and basically a big "don't know" when it comes to just about everything about him?. My vet has made notes on his account just in case, but she couldn't see just from looking and he doesn't have any scarring on his neck.

He let out a woof earlier that nearly made me jump out of my skin but was over so quickly not sure if I'm oly hearing things, only time will tell if he has been or not, but thanks for all your advice! Going to the vet wasn't a complete waste of time either as she explained the risks of debarking and we know what to look for if he has any issues in the future.