mumtoshelley Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 I train with these guys http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/mvodc/web/MVODC.html there also listed on the dogs victoria website too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I train with these guys http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/mvodc/web/MVODC.html there also listed on the dogs victoria website too. Damn, that's miles away! I was hoping you were more local to Melbourne. Obedience heeling (and training it) has changed so much over the years and it often takes several dogs to even begin to get it right (because we inadvertently stuff them up with our crappy timing and lack of understanding ). The other thing that I would suggest is that you drop any use of a command until you get exactly the behaviour you are looking for. Otherwise you teach your dog that "heel" means: "Hmmm....wander around, kind of close to my left hand side, put your nose down....oooh! That must have been a nice smell!!! I turned - where do you go? Ah well...." Does that make sense? Just keep this in your head (thanks Sue Hogben!): If the dog doesn't do as it's told, it either doesn't understand or it isn't getting paid enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I don't mean to sound offensive but well ...you're boring! Look at how she responded at the end of the second video when you praised and released her. If she responds to praise USE it - a LOT. The second she looks up at you praise her and re-inforce it, have a party and make a BIG deal out of it. Once you have that take one step - reinforce. Build on it gradually. There are plenty of ways to teach heeling but the bottom line is that if you don't motivate your dog, reward highly and often, and make it fun then you wont get the kind of attitude in your heelwork that you are looking for. Why does your club discourage eye contact? I find that very odd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumtoshelley Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 I know i seem boring i'm not offended at all, I guess i don't want to look like a idiot at training. Maybe i should be doing the reward like i did at the end of the second clip, She looked so happy and was willing to do more. The main reason why the obedience club don't want you to make eye contact is they said that the dog will most likely break the stay command. I was thinking of doing obedience trails with Shelley but i'm not sure if she has enough drive for it. She is very good with ignoring other dogs,people. Her recall is pretty good and so are her stays. Her drops can be a bit sloopy here and there eg lays on her side instand on the legs and belly. Her sits are pretty good actually she sits that close to me it feels like she is sitting on me lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) SecretKei - that's a good point (again I haven't looked at the videos). Don't be afraid of making a complete idiot of yourself is a video of me training my young pup who, at this stage, wasn't even 5 months old. Keep in mind that she is from working lines and absolutely bred to work, work, work so I am spoilt and I couldn't do this with my Dally who isn't really into praise and play as a reward. However, I have to make myself more exciting to her than all the butterflies, lizards and especially the birds and ducks that she is genetically wired to flush out and retrieve.ETA: Stuffed Em's age up Edited February 22, 2011 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I was thinking of doing obedience trails with Shelley but i'm not sure if she has enough drive for it. From the second video I'd say she has more than enough potential. She's like a ball of clay, just needs you to animate her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I don't really know how to say this. From what I can see from the video Shelley looks very unhappy and worried about her heeling. Her tail is right down and has that slow worried wag. She is sort of crouching. I think her head is down because she is worried. I think you need to walk with more energy. You need to be praising heaps. I would be just doing 1-3 paces and telling her how wonderful she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I know i seem boring i'm not offended at all, I guess i don't want to look like a idiot at training. Maybe i should be doing the reward like i did at the end of the second clip, She looked so happy and was willing to do more. The main reason why the obedience club don't want you to make eye contact is they said that the dog will most likely break the stay command. I was thinking of doing obedience trails with Shelley but i'm not sure if she has enough drive for it. She is very good with ignoring other dogs,people. Her recall is pretty good and so are her stays. Her drops can be a bit sloopy here and there eg lays on her side instand on the legs and belly. Her sits are pretty good actually she sits that close to me it feels like she is sitting on me lol. My dogs have brilliant eye contact and their stays are very good, I am not sure why getting good eye contact should interefere with stays???? Honestly I have been soooo happy I gave myself a headache with the jumping around and yippeeing and having a happy high voice - I seriously had to take Nurophen, and on more than one occasion! However I had a very happy dog that was willing to keep going after we stopped training. It is a lot easier to take the bounce out than put it back in! Given the correct motivation and praise she can work MUCH happier than she does now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Oh and Star - excellent work with your girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I must say I encouraged eye contact in the stays so Zig could learn to focus and concentrate instead of looking around at all the pretty doggies I'm working on out of sight stays and he remains focussed on my returning rather than thinking about other things he could be doing....like sniffing and peeing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I know i seem boring i'm not offended at all, I guess i don't want to look like a idiot at training. Maybe i should be doing the reward like i did at the end of the second clip, She looked so happy and was willing to do more. The main reason why the obedience club don't want you to make eye contact is they said that the dog will most likely break the stay command. I was thinking of doing obedience trails with Shelley but i'm not sure if she has enough drive for it. She is very good with ignoring other dogs,people. Her recall is pretty good and so are her stays. Her drops can be a bit sloopy here and there eg lays on her side instand on the legs and belly. Her sits are pretty good actually she sits that close to me it feels like she is sitting on me lol. My dogs have brilliant eye contact and their stays are very good, I am not sure why getting good eye contact should interefere with stays???? Honestly I have been soooo happy I gave myself a headache with the jumping around and yippeeing and having a happy high voice - I seriously had to take Nurophen, and on more than one occasion! However I had a very happy dog that was willing to keep going after we stopped training. It is a lot easier to take the bounce out than put it back in! Given the correct motivation and praise she can work MUCH happier than she does now! My dog loves staring at me in stays but then he stares at me all day at home anyway .... I look at him during stays but I know loads of people dont look at their dogs. Mumtoshelley the best advice I can give you is find someone more advanced than you to train with if possible, I know it can be difficult. Training your first dog in obedience is actually really difficult and somethings are best explained and demonstrated one on one. I only got some iimprovement when I asked for extra help at club and then trained with more knowledgeable people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I know i seem boring i'm not offended at all, I guess i don't want to look like a idiot at training. LOL you'd probably have a heart attack if you came to one of my classes, I love to demonstrate the difference between being boring and having a party with your dog to our poor first nighters hehe! Don't worry about what other people think - do what works best for your dog. I am CONSTANTLY making an idiot out of myself and my dog loves it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I don't eyeball the Whippets during their stays, but they will flick their eyes to meet mine every now and again, I generally look at their feet in a down stay and just over their head in a sit stay. If they are really sniffing the ground or something silly I do eyeball them and as soon as they look at me I then look away to the normal spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumtoshelley Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) SecretKei - that's a good point (again I haven't looked at the videos). Don't be afraid of making a complete idiot of yourself is a video of me training my young pup who, at this stage, wasn't even 5 months old. Keep in mind that she is from working lines and absolutely bred to work, work, work so I am spoilt and I couldn't do this with my Dally who isn't really into praise and play as a reward. However, I have to make myself more exciting to her than all the butterflies, lizards and especially the birds and ducks that she is genetically wired to flush out and retrieve.ETA: Stuffed Em's age up Thats a great video I want Shelley walking nicely like your dally is. I guess i have my work cut out for me. Edited February 22, 2011 by mumtoshelley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumtoshelley Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 I don't really know how to say this. From what I can see from the video Shelley looks very unhappy and worried about her heeling. Her tail is right down and has that slow worried wag. She is sort of crouching. I think her head is down because she is worried. I think you need to walk with more energy. You need to be praising heaps. I would be just doing 1-3 paces and telling her how wonderful she is. Thanks i thought she looked unhappy too. When i first go to her she is really happy and goes to my left side straight away and sits, She only seems unhappy when it comes to heeling, I think its a combantion of me being boring and very serious and the corrections the obedience club says to do. I'm really going to work on making it fun for her, I think i just need to talk to her in a very happy way first off to get her excited then get to heel for a few secongs then reward her by pating her then playing again like in the second clip. Just hopefully it will make her focus more on me, I know she is listening to me eg cause she is doing what i ask i just want her to be happy about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) SecretKei - that's a good point (again I haven't looked at the videos). Don't be afraid of making a complete idiot of yourself is a video of me training my young pup who, at this stage, wasn't even 5 months old. Keep in mind that she is from working lines and absolutely bred to work, work, work so I am spoilt and I couldn't do this with my Dally who isn't really into praise and play as a reward. However, I have to make myself more exciting to her than all the butterflies, lizards and especially the birds and ducks that she is genetically wired to flush out and retrieve.ETA: Stuffed Em's age up Thats a great video I want Shelley walking nicely like your dally is. I guess i have my work cut out for me. That's very kind of you to say - I think we have loads to work on but he was the biggest PITA - you wouldn't believe how difficult he was to train. Nup! Just wanted to sniff and pee on stuff He is 4 now and I still have to work on the tricks to get him motivated - lots of different food, being hungry, being fit, not too hot, not too cold, not tired, no repetitive training drills, not too much physical interaction, a little bit of tugging but not too much, chance to mark his territory first and last Guess what he gets to do, though, when we step out of the agility/obedience ring? Gobbles his treats and then marks his territory ;) ETA: Zig and Em are my 2nd and 3rd dogs who (will) do obedience and I make so many mistakes all the time so don't be too hard on yourself. Edited February 22, 2011 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I would be telling her how wonderful she is whilst I was heeling. I don't think you have your work cutout for you. I think that you could get a fairly quick improvement. I think once she is happy her head is just going to come up naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumtoshelley Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 I was thinking could it be the way i'm holding my hand and arm down? Should i be walking with my left arm in a crossed position over my chest? I guess i'm also looking at the way i'm walking too maybe holding my arm down like in the clip is what is making her look down. I've noticed alot of people hold there lead in there left hand. I hold with both i hope that made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I was thinking could it be the way i'm holding my hand and arm down? Should i be walking with my left arm in a crossed position over my chest? For a lot of dogs that is the cue to heel, and in many cases there has been food in that hand. A popular way to teach heel is to "lure" with the food in the left hand at first, then move the hand with the treat hidden in it. The dog is looking for the treat, and being rewarded while in heel position, with the head up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I know i seem boring i'm not offended at all, I guess i don't want to look like a idiot at training. Maybe i should be doing the reward like i did at the end of the second clip, She looked so happy and was willing to do more. The main reason why the obedience club don't want you to make eye contact is they said that the dog will most likely break the stay command. I was thinking of doing obedience trails with Shelley but i'm not sure if she has enough drive for it. She is very good with ignoring other dogs,people. Her recall is pretty good and so are her stays. Her drops can be a bit sloopy here and there eg lays on her side instand on the legs and belly. Her sits are pretty good actually she sits that close to me it feels like she is sitting on me lol. Well I look and sound like a mad woman when I train my dog, if I'm not animated neither is he. Re the eye contact I've heard that before but it's not the case for all dogs and certainly not during heelwork! Don't give up on your plans to trial either ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now