alpha bet Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 So many Breeding Discussions here. Who should Breed?, Who owns the breeding rights? Stud dog owner rights? Selling pups on Main or Limited? etc.... etc... etc... Lets really look at this properly - where do we expect our various breeds to be in the future? A great deal will depend on whether we do have people breeding pure bred dogs in the future and making these dogs available to to public for both pets or breeding. I got into the pure breed world in the late '70's, I am now 51 so realistically I might still be breeding for the next 10-15 years. This still gives me time to try to promote my breed with the public as well as selling pups to younger people who might also get out there promoting the breed as great family dogs and perhaps even to take up breeding in the future. Personally I believe the best way to promote any pure breed dog is to have them out in the public eye; walking in the street, playing in the park, going to the local footy match, visiting schools, hospitals or nursing homes. This type of life is what is offered by many families, they might have one or two dogs and we need to provide them with dogs of great temperament who are good looking worthy members of their breed. These are the people who can keep up the public demand for good quality pure dogs for the future. Showing dogs is fine for those who love having these activities, but they do little to promote their breed. The public rarely pay attention to shows, outside of the Royals. Nowdays in Victoria, often the Ag Shows dont have dog shows and most of the shows are at the KCC Park or the new Bulla complex - neither of which has public visiting. Many showies have multiple dogs and spend weekends at shows not taking dogs out and about where the public see them living normal lives. So lets hear from breeders here - who expects to be breeding in 10 years - 15 years - 20 years - 25 years - 30 years. What are you doing to ensure that the demand for your breed is going to continue into the future If we breeders aren't careful in 20-30 years we could end up with a world going to be full of ....doodles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazzat Xolo Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Alphabet I agree totally with your post and applaud you for this. I feel I can comment from the new breed perspective, I certainly agree with the comment "Personally I believe the best way to promote any pure breed dog is to have them out in the public eye; walking in the street, playing in the park, going to the local footy match, visiting schools, hospitals or nursing homes. This type of life is what is offered by many families, they might have one or two dogs and we need to provide them with dogs of great temperament who are good looking worthy members of their breed. These are the people who can keep up the public demand for good quality pure dogs for the future." and having a new breed this is what I will be striving for so I can advance my breed along with placing some dogs in show homes that are exemplary specimens of the breed. Not all dogs are for show and I hope we dont end up with a Doodle Society, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkrai Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I still hope to be in my breeds for the next 30yrs + i want my breeds to be around for my next generation to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozwildflower Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I am worried by the trend towards 'doodles', especially as I have standard poodles. I agree with Alpha Bet. I'm in my 60s but still hope to have another 10 years helping my girls produce strong, healthy in mind and body, pups. I don't breed for the show ring, though one of my pups is in a show home. Some of my pups are in obedience and many of my pups are playing in 'doggy parks' around Australia. I am not putting down the show folk here (I have good friends that show) - it just isn't for me. My dogs are kept clean and tidy but I don't have the expertise or the patience for a show coat. People who meet my dogs often mention that they thought poodles were just silly dogs with sillier hair dos - and that seems to be the perception that people have before they meet the 'dog under the wool'. One of the worries I have now is the difficulty of finding a new Sire (registered and Health tested) that doesn't carry a whole bunch of restrictions on top of the stud fee - and this seems to be very wide spread, not just the poodle world. I would love to have the sort of money that went behind promoting labradoodles - they did a good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkrai Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I know that too ozwildflower, having Standards as well im constantly getting emails and the occassional phone call wanting to breed their Lab or Oodle cross to my dogs!!! Like this woman that sent me an email asking if she could breed her lab to my Male Poodle, casue she had been rejected by numerous other lab breeders and wanted to have a litter with her bitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozwildflower Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I know that too ozwildflower, having Standards as well im constantly getting emails and the occassional phone call wanting to breed their Lab or Oodle cross to my dogs!!! Like this woman that sent me an email asking if she could breed her lab to my Male Poodle, casue she had been rejected by numerous other lab breeders and wanted to have a litter with her bitch Ah yes, those amazing emails and phone calls...not to mention, remarks. I was buying dog bones at the butcher and a woman asked me what sort of dogs I had - I told her. She then informed me that pedigree dogs were too expensive and in the next breath that her sister had just paid over $2000 for a labradoodle pup under breeders terms. We really (as pedigree dog lovers) need a concerted effort to re-educate people via media and any other way we can...I'm just not sure how to motivate people to do this or to get the CC to get heavily involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkrai Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 the ANKC and CC's need to start campaigning to the general public... Yeah the cost of an Oodle compared to a purebred... Then the expensive oodle gets dumped in the pound cause it sheds or is the non-allergenic like the poodle!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazzat Xolo Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) God help us if they Xoloitzcuintle ever gets bred to be an oodle imagine the stupid name ! lol and thousands for a cross bred, it is very sad on all counts Edited February 21, 2011 by Wazzat Xolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappiemum Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 So many Breeding Discussions here. Who should Breed?, Who owns the breeding rights? Stud dog owner rights? Selling pups on Main or Limited? etc.... etc... etc...Lets really look at this properly - where do we expect our various breeds to be in the future? A great deal will depend on whether we do have people breeding pure bred dogs in the future and making these dogs available to to public for both pets or breeding. I got into the pure breed world in the late '70's, I am now 51 so realistically I might still be breeding for the next 10-15 years. This still gives me time to try to promote my breed with the public as well as selling pups to younger people who might also get out there promoting the breed as great family dogs and perhaps even to take up breeding in the future. Personally I believe the best way to promote any pure breed dog is to have them out in the public eye; walking in the street, playing in the park, going to the local footy match, visiting schools, hospitals or nursing homes. This type of life is what is offered by many families, they might have one or two dogs and we need to provide them with dogs of great temperament who are good looking worthy members of their breed. These are the people who can keep up the public demand for good quality pure dogs for the future. Showing dogs is fine for those who love having these activities, but they do little to promote their breed. The public rarely pay attention to shows, outside of the Royals. Nowdays in Victoria, often the Ag Shows dont have dog shows and most of the shows are at the KCC Park or the new Bulla complex - neither of which has public visiting. Many showies have multiple dogs and spend weekends at shows not taking dogs out and about where the public see them living normal lives. So lets hear from breeders here - who expects to be breeding in 10 years - 15 years - 20 years - 25 years - 30 years. What are you doing to ensure that the demand for your breed is going to continue into the future If we breeders aren't careful in 20-30 years we could end up with a world going to be full of ....doodles. Some of us do both, you know We just spent 2 days on a breed club stall at the pet expo - and showed as well. And yes, I walk my dogs in the neighborhood - as well as take them around the show ring. Things don't happen in isolation We love our breed and do everything we can to promote it, and pedigree dog ownership. Just because we are 'showies' doesn't mean we don't have the interests of our breed's future at heart - far from it! We show because a) we enjoy it and b) I like having my dogs critically reviewed - that part is important for breeding (which is the focus of this thread) and vital for the future viability of any breed. If you don't have healthy animals of sound temperament that improve on each generation and meet the standard, you will not gain ground against the DD movement. So perhaps the question in this thread should be, how can breeders best promote their breed and ensure its future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 On a personal level if I am around in 30 years I will be grateful, breeding would be a miracle In general in 30 years I can see K Mart, Coles & Woolworths etc taking over & selling dogs. They will be manufactured & produced off shore & overseas for cheapness & maximum profit. There will be a style, size, range & colour to suit everyone. They may even come in different flavours in the food dept if they deem it profitable Breed & show while you can. The world is going insane & more crazy is yet to come. So speaks the Prophet Of Doom, about the Profit of Doom to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxerheart Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Once upon a time the dog show scene had more to offer families with slightly older children who wanted to show. There was a thing called place ribbons that ment even if you only won a place you took home somthing for your many hours of effort and your entrie fees. Then the showies who have been around and are accustomed to winning the bigger prizes pushed to abolish the little ribbons in order to keep entry fees down. Now even if you win best of breed you have to go and ask the secretary for your prize, the Sashes are becoming tiny more like ribbons, you have to beg for any reserve CC's and some clubs even make you ask for the best in group cards. Entry fees are still going up. Tell me honestly..what in hell is there that I can use as encouragement for a new pedigreed, dog owner to go showing? There are no small incremental awards! An airy wave of the judges hand does not cut it! I have to tell them showing is tough and that they are not likely to find friends withing their breed. That they should look to find their friends outside their breed, and see the whole thing as a dogs day out, but not expect to walk in and just clean up as there is nothing they will get for the lower awards even if they get a place. What child teenager does not like to win a ribbon? Even I liked my ribbons. Add to that the sheer cost of getting to the shows. The show ring will be dead in 10 - 15 years unless it gets it's act together, (already numbers have reduced by half) and with its demise what is the purpose of purebred dogs now...here come the oodles. Add to that the continung reluctance of many judges to fairly treat previously docked dogs with tails, and the unwillingness of the ANKC to phase out the showing of docked dogs to level the playing field, more will walk. I know many who have. I will not be in the showing game much longer if things do not improve..I give it 5 years and the bias shit had better be over by then..and as showing is largely touted by the RSPCA and breed organisations as as a measure of the quality of the dogs and breeders...I don't know that I will be a breeder indefinately either. It goes hand in hand. If the show clubs don't stop catering to the "heads" and "faces" at the top of the food chain, they will not bring anyone new in. JMHO at the obvious Edited February 21, 2011 by Boxerheart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toy dog Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) hmmm my angle on it all is, was at Caulfield racecourse pet expo on the weekend and there was but only a handful of people showing their dogs. these shows (2 open shows per day on sat and sun) are a chance to promote your breed to the public. we had scores of people coming up asking questions, i was the only rep of my breed which was sad. so i sat with another toy breeder of another breed. she did alot of positive PR for her breed. on facebook, i often get into puppy farms pages and have made alot of friends in the public who want to know the difference between an oodle and a purebred and what the benefits are, some people just don't know because we are at a minority, there definately isn't enough pedigree breeders out there blowing our own trumpet. as a result these oodle breeders are getting the stage and winning. thats the way i see it. my own breed club in Victoria here does alot of PR because for years i've used this medium to promote our breed as i was the first in australia as a breeder to get online so i talked up a storm of our dogs overseas. now we have alot of people continuing this in a postive manner to the public, im one of the breeders that choose to have an open email address for the public to ask questions of me. sometimes having an open dialogue with the public has its disadvantages i've been threatened a few times by some nuts, but overall i have to say it is a very positive thing and i not only promote my own breed but all breeds as much as i can. if alot more of us could do this it would go a long way of stamping out these ooodle breeders and the demand for these dogs as quite often the public don't know anything about a well bred balanced pet and the way to go about obtaining one - how to screen breeders and most STILL don't know the difference between a puppy farmer and an ethical breeder. They often ask these types of questions to the organisers of say, STOP PUPPY FARMS GROUP (doesn't exist but just an example) and sadly these organisers know nothing about how to go about buying a pedigree dog so it is left up to pedigree breeders to answer these people but there's not enough of us around. i would really like to see more of us out in the public mingling with the public, on facebook, on websites about pets geting out there painting a positive picture about our dogs and people. Edited February 21, 2011 by toy dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toy dog Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Once upon a time the dog show scene had more to offer families with slightly older children who wanted to show. There was a thing called place ribbons that ment even if you only won a place you took home somthing for your many hours of effort and your entrie fees. Then the showies who have been around and are accustomed to winning the bigger prizes pushed to abolish the little ribbons in order to keep entry fees down.Now even if you win best of breed you have to go and ask the secretary for your prize, the Sashes are becoming tiny more like ribbons, you have to beg for any reserve CC's and some clubs even make you ask for the best in group cards. Entry fees are still going up. Tell me honestly..what in hell is there that I can use as encouragement for a new pedigreed, dog owner to go showing? There are no small incremental awards! An airy wave of the judges hand does not cut it! I have to tell them showing is tough and that they are not likely to find friends withing their breed. That they should look to find their friends outside their breed, and see the whole thing as a dogs day out, but not expect to walk in and just clean up as there is nothing they will get for the lower awards even if they get a place. What child teenager does not like to win a ribbon? Even I liked my ribbons. Add to that the sheer cost of getting to the shows. The show ring will be dead in 10 - 15 years unless it gets it's act together, (already numbers have reduced by half) and with its demise what is the purpose of purebred dogs now...here come the oodles. Add to that the continung reluctance of many judges to fairly treat previously docked dogs with tails, and the unwillingness of the ANKC to phase out the showing of docked dogs to level the playing field, more will walk. I know many who have. I will not be in the showing game much longer if things do not improve..I give it 5 years and the bias shit had better be over by then..and as showing is largely touted by the RSPCA and breed organisations as as a measure of the quality of the dogs and breeders...I don't know that I will be a breeder indefinately either. It goes hand in hand. If the show clubs don't stop catering to the "heads" and "faces" at the top of the food chain, they will not bring anyone new in. JMHO at the obvious just to answer this in my own way. what works for our breed is we don't leave it up to our controlling body, we deal with new people at a breed level. therefore, we do alot of PR for our breed in the public, having a facebook page has opened alot of doors, having a website in Victoria has done the same thing. so we end up pulling alot of people just interested in the breed into our club on members compettition days. we teach people how to show their dogs at these days, so any member of the public that owns a chi and is a pet can learn how to show it. from there these people get interested in showing dogs and the breed grows. back about 10 years ago we were struggling for numbers the numbers really dropped off there'd be at a major speciality show about 50 dogs showing, but since then the number of new people has steadily grown over the years, now at a major championship show of our breed there is over 150 dogs so we have grown quite a lot Positive PR of your breed really does wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toy dog Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I know that too ozwildflower, having Standards as well im constantly getting emails and the occassional phone call wanting to breed their Lab or Oodle cross to my dogs!!! Like this woman that sent me an email asking if she could breed her lab to my Male Poodle, casue she had been rejected by numerous other lab breeders and wanted to have a litter with her bitch Ah yes, those amazing emails and phone calls...not to mention, remarks. I was buying dog bones at the butcher and a woman asked me what sort of dogs I had - I told her. She then informed me that pedigree dogs were too expensive and in the next breath that her sister had just paid over $2000 for a labradoodle pup under breeders terms. We really (as pedigree dog lovers) need a concerted effort to re-educate people via media and any other way we can...I'm just not sure how to motivate people to do this or to get the CC to get heavily involved. you can do alot on your own and then i found that people of breed clubs or just others in the pedigree world will just follow your lead. but someone has to start somewhere otherwise as someone else said we are all doomed. we won't survive, yes oodles will take over as there are so many people on the $$$ band wagon and breeding them and there are so many more than purebred dogs and traditional breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PomsNZ Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) whoops.. will return to edit Edited February 22, 2011 by PomsNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkrai Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Some breeds dont take well to newbies too, When i started out in one of my breeds I was grooming wrong apparently, everyone else knew this but me, word spread through the grape vine till it came back to me from someone from another breed... Then there are the people that will go out of their way to help newbies, which is the best asset for any breed As for ribbons... yes there is a lack of prizes these days, some shows you have to go to the secretary office to get your ribbon - Unless its a international judge then the ribbons appear seriously is it that hard to have ribbons at the ring, not all exhibitors will take them but there will be the some!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxerheart Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Some breeds dont take well to newbies too, When i started out in one of my breeds I was grooming wrong apparently, everyone else knew this but me, word spread through the grape vine till it came back to me from someone from another breed...Then there are the people that will go out of their way to help newbies, which is the best asset for any breed As for ribbons... yes there is a lack of prizes these days, some shows you have to go to the secretary office to get your ribbon - Unless its a international judge then the ribbons appear seriously is it that hard to have ribbons at the ring, not all exhibitors will take them but there will be the some!!! In Tassie, they do not even have the place ribbons at the offices, most club committees will make sarcastic remarks if you ask for your reserve challenge. Will do them if you insist but you are made to fel like dirt. Some are now starting to not want to do the group certificates. Honestly..make a more positive and welcoming environment, the numbers will grow as will the helping hands. In saying this there are some clubs who do not make one feel crummy for asking for a prize that is rightfully theirs. But in my view, showing is no walk in the park, and all awards should be respected. I do a lot of PR for my breed as I can, and educate people against puppy farmers.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Some breeds dont take well to newbies too, When i started out in one of my breeds I was grooming wrong apparently, everyone else knew this but me, word spread through the grape vine till it came back to me from someone from another breed... Have to agree with this, my breed has done a good job of pushing away and bullying some promising newbies. I came to the breed in my early 30's and had some life experience under my belt that meant that I was better placed to deal with it. There have been times tho' when you really have to wonder - and I'm no threat to anyone. There have also been some great people in the breed, but tellingly two of the most helpful to me are now out of the breed. Also, it's a bit tricky for breeds where you really can't do a lot of "great family pet!" PR. Salukis are a great family pet, for the right family headed by cluey, calm adults who are prepared to take on a higher level of responsibility than your average dog owner. They are not very doggy tho', if your idea of a great family pet is a cheerful cocker or a friendly lab, they just aren't going to cut it and it would not be fair to do a PP style bullshit sell with them. I do think there is a future for them in the homes of physically active DINKs. The "not that doggy" thing is an advantage as well. Will I still be around? Don't know to be honest, I can see a lot of forces working against ethical dog breeding both external and internal to the fancy. However, I will always have a Saluki (and probably an Afghan too) and it may come to it at some point that the only person I trust to breed the Saluki is myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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