Still Struggling With Toilet Training

[Kirty]

So how many months has it been now? And we are still battling to toilet train Pia. She has been really good with me recently, but still shocking when my husband is with her. He swears he takes her out as often as I tell him, but he will literally bring her inside from a toilet break and she will sneak off and pee or poop somewhere! Then this morning, I had to get up at 5am and Pia wouldn't get off the bed. So I went to the toilet, came back and she had got up, crapped in the kitchen and then gone back to bed! I mean seriously?! She now goes religiously outside, no matter how frequently we take her out. But we just can't stop her going inside. Its putting a huge strain on my already seriously strained relationship. And I love Pia to death but it is starting to drive me insane. And she goes to my Mum's house a few days a week and she is even worse there. My parents love having her, except for that.

Does anyone have any special tricks, besides crating her. She can't be outside because of Phoebe. I've told my husband that perhaps he should put her on a lead and attach it to himself so she is never out of sight, but thats not exactly practical. And there isn't really room for a crate.

[Christina]

Not been following this Kirty but assume you have had her vet checked to ensure there is no medical reason.

Maybe she just does not know how to let you know or give the signal that she needs to go out.

Somewhere she is not making the connection that this is the wrong thing to do.

If you can't crate her & take her out hourly for a few days until she gets the knack maybe get some Snugglers & put a nappy on her. Take her out & remove it & instruct her to pee, using one & the same word each time, praise & put the nappy on again while inside.

There will be a reason for this, in the dogs head, you just haven't got in there yet.

[Kirty]

She is a very simple dog, bless her, and yes you are right, there is definitely a connection missing somewhere. We always take her to the same spot to toilet, every time without fail. She will occasionally go to the front door to signal she wants out and when she does, I praise her like mad and take her out. But just as often, she will just wander off and do it somewhere else! She gets praised when she goes outside and seems happy to go out there. Its definitely not a medical issue. And she will go for weeks without an accident, then she'll have 3-4 in a few days?

[Rebanne]

She can't be outside because of Phoebe.

maybe she doesn't consider it safe to toilet outside except when a human is with her

[Kirty]

She toilets in the front yard, nowhere near Phoebe who is in the backyard. And a human is always with her when she goes, to be on hand to give lots of praise (even in the pouring rain like last week!).

[corvus]

Have you tried something more serious than praise? We found rewarding with food afterwards was quite effective.

[LizT]

I feel your pain. My five month old puppy will always pee outside and we wait and wait for her to poo.

Nothing.

Then five minutes after we are back inside she poos.

No matter how long we wait outside for her she seems to think going inside is the way! At least her poos are little though.

[sas]

Back to the absolute basics, she does not leave your sight at all and if you have to take her out every 20 minutes then that's what you have to do, correct and praise, make it high reward when she does the right thing.

If she's sneaking off to toilet that would indicate to me that incorrect toilet training technique has been used before.

If your relationship is already strained you might want to look at that contributing to stress in a dog that makes them out of whack with their typical behaviour.

Edited February 19, 2011 by MEH

[Kirty]

She doesn't really sneak off, she just does it. She has peed right in front of me before! I don't think she feels comfortable with my OH which is why she is worse with him. He is not mean to her, but he doesn't like her (and this issue is not helping!!).

I find it easy enough to keep her in my sight at all times, but OH doesn't. And if you confine her (say, lock her in the bathroom or laundry) I think she stressed because she will poo and wee guaranteed.

I will try using treats but she is not a hugely food motivated dog. We usually have a little game (weather permitting!) when she goes outside, but thats it.

[lynst]

I understand your predicament and what I have done with my puppy is to take them out to toilet and when they go I give them a small piece of cut up meat. My furkids love cocktail frankfurts so I take the skin off and cut it up into pieces and that is their special reward. No toilet, no treat. It has worked for me. When they have been and done a poo outside they usually get a couple of pieces. Once they got the idea I gave them a couple of weeks to egt used to it and then when it had become a habit I gradually cut it back to every third time they went. You might need to try a few different ways until you find the one that suits your puppy.

[poodlefan]

How old is the pup? If she's had months of accidents, you have months of reinforcement to undo.

If three different sets of criteria are being applied by three different people in two different homes, the pup may simply not be "getting it". Consistency is the absolute key to this. Don't blame the dog for what people have taught her.

Every accident reinforces what you don't want. I'd be starting with laying down the law to the OH and the parents. If they can't be relied on to do the right thing then leave Pia outside where she can't get it wrong.

Shift the other dog to your parents if necessary for a couple of weeks. Why can't Pia be in the same yard as her?

In the long term, providing Pia with free access outside would be the ideal solution. Divide the back yard if you have to.

Edited February 19, 2011 by poodlefan

[Nic.B]

The joys of toilet training!

We have a Bull Arab puppy here atm. She was a bit of a monkey to toilet train, she was 3 months when she arrived and had a tummy upset which put us back a little though once she recovered fully and after two solid weeks of commitment we had it down pat and she is fabulous now.

I supervised her very carefully while inside and closed off areas of the house to lessen the area to supervise. We took her out every 5 or 10 minutes if needed- well it was needed in the beginning. At times Fern was distracted by the other dogs or the horses while outside and much more interested in playing than going to the toilet so I either took her out alone to avoid this or would call my other dogs and get them to wait with me/ignore her while she went. Then lots of praise and rewards etc.

Having our other two females here helped, we would all go out together and when they went, Fern would often go (A bit of a pee party) Sometimes I knew she was distracted and had only “half gone” then we would wait and reward.

If I was not able to supervise her or had to duck out/overnight she was crated (another milestone)

I agree it is important for everyone to do the same thing, consistency is crucial. At times it can feel overwhelming when you are in the middle of training. My parents looked after our lot while we were away recently. Fern’s toilet training and crate training was top of their ‘to do’ list. Fern didn’t skip a beat, I was so relieved!

Also agree you all need to be on the same page and keep it positive. As MEH has said, back to basics, it will be well worth the effort though, and much less stressful for you all. Good luck Kirty.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I think you may need to try the umbilical cord thing and a 20 minute timer.

If the dog has been scolded (or imagines it has) it will hide when it goes.

What is more inconveinent - a lead so the dog can't sneak off, or having to clean up the mess.

And is there some reason why you don't want to crate the dog when you're not able to supervise it. Some dogs find crates a safe place and quite soothing. Provided you have gotten them accustomed to being in there (lots of treats).

[Kirty]

Pia is not a puppy - she will be 2 years old in August. She can't be outside with Phoebe because Phoebe would like to kill her. We were going to have Phoebe PTS (she has lots of issues) but have decided to manage the situation for now.

Pia used to come inside when we were home, but outside at other times and didn't have accidents then. But since the fights, she has been indoors 24/7 and thats when the accidents started. My parents don't let her inside anymore unless they are actively watching her, so thats not really an issue.

Pia is not crate trained and she hates being contained. We used to put her in the bathroom when we went out, but she would freak out and toilet everywhere, trash it, etc. So now she comes with us or goes to my parents house.

Even if Phoebe wasn't here, the dogs can't have free access to the yard because I have indoor-only cats.

I think I am going to try and focus on rewarding her when she goes to the front door. Perhaps that is the link she is missing? She understands 100% that outside = toilet. She goes straight to the garden and does her business. The only issue is understanding that toiletting does not happen inside. She doesn't hide if she wants to toilet inside, she just does it. Maybe she just doesn't understand that she needs to tell me she needs to go toilet?

[Gayle.]

Kirsten, is she going in the same place each time? How are you cleaning it up? Maybe she can still smell a faint odour and thinks that indoors IS the toilet.

Poor Pia, she's so beautiful and so gentle.

[Kirty]

She has a few spots she prefers in the house (kitchen being a fave), but she will go anywhere really. I clean it with disinfectant, but we have stone floors in the kitchen so perhaps the smell is lingering there?

Gayle, she is the most beautiful, gorgeous dog and I just love her to bits. She is perfect in every way except for this! LOL! She is currently curled up asleep on the couch with my OH.

[Cosmolo]

Does your disinfectant contain ammonia? I'd try something different- white vinegar and water or urine off.

[Kirty]

I don't think so, its one of those natural/nature ones. I'll double check though.

[Liath]

What about a puppy pad while she is inside?? if she tends to go in one spot put a pad there and slowly move it to the door. It may take awhile but at least it will save your floors.

We bought a puppy when she was 6months old. toilet trained well but lived in lowset house. We live in high set house and she couldnt use the stairs. It has taken 4 months to get her to go up and down the stairs and she will only go down if we are standing at the bottom. Meanwhile she chose to do her business on the bathroom floor so I placed a puppy pad there and now am slowling moving it to the door. She doesnt always let us know she wants to go outside but will do wees on the pad.

[dancinbcs]

So how many months has it been now? And we are still battling to toilet train Pia. She has been really good with me recently, but still shocking when my husband is with her. He swears he takes her out as often as I tell him, but he will literally bring her inside from a toilet break and she will sneak off and pee or poop somewhere! Then this morning, I had to get up at 5am and Pia wouldn't get off the bed. So I went to the toilet, came back and she had got up, crapped in the kitchen and then gone back to bed! I mean seriously?! She now goes religiously outside, no matter how frequently we take her out. But we just can't stop her going inside. Its putting a huge strain on my already seriously strained relationship. And I love Pia to death but it is starting to drive me insane. And she goes to my Mum's house a few days a week and she is even worse there. My parents love having her, except for that.

Does anyone have any special tricks, besides crating her. She can't be outside because of Phoebe. I've told my husband that perhaps he should put her on a lead and attach it to himself so she is never out of sight, but thats not exactly practical. And there isn't really room for a crate.

This dog needs some serious boundaries to be set. She has not earn't the right to have free access to the house until she learns the house rules. Make room for a crate and train her to go in there without a fuss. Only have her loose in the house when you are watching her or put her outside and bring Phoebe in. Better still divide the yard or build runs to confine one at a time. How long have you had this dog and what house training did you do when you first got her ? Every time you let her make a mistake, you are training her to toilet indoors. She will never learn unless you make sure she cannot possibly make a mistake for several months straight. Undoing what she has already learnt will take much longer than house training a new puppy.

You cannot expect your OH to help train her if he doesn't like her and I'm sure he isn't at all fussed about her sharing your bed. What do you mean she wouldn't get off the bed. Just push her off and take her out to the toilet. That incident was entirely your fault. You woke an un-house trained dog and failed to take her outside, if she doesn't get the fact that she cannot toilet inside why did that surprise you. The dog does not get a say in what she does or doesn't do. Better still get her off the bed and somewhere confined until she learns some manners. If she doesn't like being confined it is your job to teach her to cope with it.