Vet Rough Handling Dog

[Staff'n'Toller]

I think if you decide to change Vets you should write a short letter to him to let him know why.

It doesn't need to be filled with emotion, just matter of fact, that you felt the handling of your dog was inappropriate and unnecessary, you were disappointed, and since you have no control of how your animals are handled when you are not present, you feel uneasy about your dog receiving any more treatment from them.

The grabbing of the skin on the hips to lift the back end is not considered inhumane as such, it doesn't cause any pain and it's acceptable if he had stitches and bruising underneath, that we don't want to grab underneath, but the dragging is not very nice and not warranted. We always lift and carry in that case.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Staff'n'Toller

[westiemum]

Of course, if the vet's standard of care is slipping, then perhaps it's time to move vets. And also perhaps time to mention it to his boss, or even ask him directly if he's OK. Sorry to be morbid, but veterinary science as a profession has a really high depression & suicide rate, I'd personally be worried about a vet who used to be great but who suddenly doesn't seem to care about his clients & business. frown.gif

Yes if this is a family vet of long-standing whose behaviour seems to be changing, I'd say to him I noticed his uncharacteristic handling of the dog and ask if he was OK - out of concern for him. He may well apologise and explain what was going on for him that day or at the moment - or he may brush you off (but at least you tried).

Please don't think I'm excusing his behaviour - I'm not - and you should still leave the practice if you are not comfortable - but there is likely to be a reason for the change in behaviour and its not likely to be good. Vet science is a caring profession which is more under the radar from this perspective than human health staff of all persuasions. And the caring professions have high rates of burn out - and doctors in particular have high rates of depression and suicide. Having worked a in place that saw health staff jump off car parks I used to wonder if these professions in their professional isolation and need to appear professionally 'invincible' (for want of a better word) are not in some ways their own worst enemies... and would a couple of them have jumped if someone had noticed...

So I don't want to sound morbid either but I think if you can do it I'd talk to him about it... just knowing someone noticed kindly and understood might make a huge difference...

gwenneth1 I agree the solution is to get out - I did too - but for some their depression is such that they can't make that decision easily or genuinely can't see a way out - adn that feeling is terrible...

Good luck...

Edited February 17, 2011 by westiemum

[haven]

I think the fact that he was groggy influenced the way the vet handled him to get him onto the scales - groggy dogs are not the most coordinated and do not always respond the same as they do when awake - legs tend to go all over the place.

If you are unhappy with the way the vet handled your dog, I would talk to him about it.

This was my first thought too, although I don't know if it is true. In future though, if you feel uncomfortable about how your animals are being handled don't be afraid to speak up, it's your job as an owner to keep your animals safe. Your Vet may explain why he is handling the dog the way he is and it might be reasonable to you, or you could just suggest it will be easier if you do it instead. You're the one paying for the service don't forget!

It annoys me to no end the way a few vets and nurses try to manhandle your animals into doing something when if they just asked you it would be a much simpler matter, although I do realise they must be used to dealing with a lot of owners who aren't much use. I remember once seeing a vet I wouldn't normally see at the practice I frequent, but it was only to have some stitches removed so I thought it would be ok. The stitches were on her stomach (this was my Rotti bitch) and the Vet was clearly uncomfortable about handling her and was quite rude to me. She tried a number of times to simply physically force and intimidate her into lying down and rolling over and actually asked me to get out of the way at one stage. Nova was rock solid and she wasn't getting stressed or anything, but I suspect she was deliberately being difficult, so I let her go awhile and then suggested she let me deal with her. The woman rolled her eyes and huffed like I was an idiot, but I just called Nova to me and asked her to 'tummy up' and she did. Stupid Vet was still nervy about handling her even though she lay there on her back still as a statue so I ended up taking the blade of her and removing the stitches myself. I don't understand people who work with animals when they are afraid of them

[Henrietta]

Some of the stories here make me really appreciate my own vet.

I have a dog that dislikes strangers and the vet. My vet is great at calming me and my dog down. Very no-nonsense with me (I had a tendency to stress at the vets, no matter how much I made a conscious effort not too, until I realised that he knew what he was doing handling wise ) And very understanding with her, gentle and respectful and not worried. Plus, he is just a good all-round vet that investigates thoroughly and explains issues and possible scenarios to you and is not trying to push you out the door. Thankfully, I have not had to use his services often with my girl, but I know he is there which is reassuring.

[gwenneth1]

Of course, if the vet's standard of care is slipping, then perhaps it's time to move vets. And also perhaps time to mention it to his boss, or even ask him directly if he's OK. Sorry to be morbid, but veterinary science as a profession has a really high depression & suicide rate, I'd personally be worried about a vet who used to be great but who suddenly doesn't seem to care about his clients & business. frown.gif

Yes if this is a family vet of long-standing whose behaviour seems to be changing, I'd say to him I noticed his uncharacteristic handling of the dog and ask if he was OK - out of concern for him. He may well apologise and explain what was going on for him that day or at the moment - or he may brush you off (but at least you tried).

Please don't think I'm excusing his behaviour - I'm not - and you should still leave the practice if you are not comfortable - but there is likely to be a reason for the change in behaviour and its not likely to be good. Vet science is a caring profession which is more under the radar from this perspective than human health staff of all persuasions. And the caring professions have high rates of burn out - and doctors in particular have high rates of depression and suicide. Having worked a in place that saw health staff jump off car parks I used to wonder if these professions in their professional isolation and need to appear professionally 'invincible' (for want of a better word) are not in some ways their own worst enemies... and would a couple of them have jumped if someone had noticed...

So I don't want to sound morbid either but I think if you can do it I'd talk to him about it... just knowing someone noticed kindly and understood might make a huge difference...

gwenneth1 I agree the solution is to get out - I did too - but for some their depression is such that they can't make that decision easily or genuinely can't see a way out - adn that feeling is terrible...

Good luck...

I agree with your post. I will admit I have an exceptionally lower tolerance level for those who take their frustrations/temper out on those who cannot have a hope in hell standing up for themselves. I don't wish to draw attention too much away from the OP's topic starter, although I was probably amazed in my situation that the several health professionals, who were more than once caught dishing it up to extremely vulnerable patients, were almost treated like a protected species by Management who wanted to avoid scandal. A light rap on the knuckles and away they went to practice (to look after maybe your family...), Police were not called and I copped it but good for putting it in writing.

What really disturbs me is what occurred in front of me (and it was disgusting) was done with so little self control, what did these same few do when there were no witnesses?. Same thing with some Vets, if they can be so offhand in front of the owner, the potential for what may go on behind the scenes really concerns me. I may be a tad oversensitive now, but find myself being unsympathetic towards those with a propensity to act like that. Funny such people who supposedly can't control themselves because they are allegedly sunk too far down in their own misery, never lose it with those who have the ability to stand up for themselves, to me that indicates there is some degree of will and self control at play. Again, I do acknowledge that my objectivity is a bit skewed when it comes to such things.

[aussielover]

I think the fact that he was groggy influenced the way the vet handled him to get him onto the scales - groggy dogs are not the most coordinated and do not always respond the same as they do when awake - legs tend to go all over the place. He is not likely the one who actually weighed the dog for premeds/anaesthetic - probably was a nurse, though he may have asked the weight to draw up the drugs, depending on the clinic - sometimes the vet does it, sometimes the nurse does it. It would have been on his record though.

If you are unhappy with the way the vet handled your dog, I would talk to him about it.

I do not see this as an acceptable excuse to drag a dog across the floor and then lift it up on to the scales using the lead as the op had described.

How hard can it be to look up the dog's file or ask the nurse to do it? If the dog was so groggy, surely this would have been a better option? Otherwise, get two people to lift him onto the scales if he is that groggy.

[Ons]

I changed vets because of how my female golden retreiver was treated and she is now scarred for life about vet tables where as before she didn't mind.

I took Tilly because I knew she had an UTI. the vet thought it was worse and she had bladder stones and wanted to do an ultrasound so I had to take her otu the back. Now Tilly is a sensitive dog and can be stubborn but she will do things if encouraged to. before I could get her on the table the vet had lifted her on the table and manhandled her onto her back and got the vet assistant to hold her down It would have been so much better if I had been allowed to put her on the table, got her into a down position then we could have rolled her over, she would have done that but nope she was forced on to her back.

I didn't realise how much it affected her until her next vet visit. No I didn't write a letter, unfortunatley this vet is the "specialist" vet in our area and I may have to use them at some time. I have heard since of other animals being treated the same.

[Dory the Doted One]

I don't understand people who work with animals when they are afraid of them

If you work with animals long enough, and get a few good scares, it's not that hard to understand where some of the fear comes from.

My Boss nearly had his face chewed off by a Golden Retriever, a dog he had treated for many years without a problem. Even the owner was shocked when the dog, with no apparent warning, lashed out. It was in for a routine vaccination.

So you constantly have to walk a fine line between being relaxed and cautious without appearing suspicious to a nervous animal, all the while trying to remember not to ever get complacent. Doubley hard when you want to give the animals a chance to be good or you dont' want to stress them unduly with too firm handling right from the get go. And often animals appear to be quite relaxed and ok with what you are doing, only to very quickly change in an instant. If it happens enough, you do sometimes get quite a bit jumpy at the slightest twitch when you are in a vulnerable possie.

I hope never to get to that point!

[W Sibs]

I would be very upset if I saw anyone handling my dogs like that...

Edited February 17, 2011 by CW EW

[Kavik]

I think the fact that he was groggy influenced the way the vet handled him to get him onto the scales - groggy dogs are not the most coordinated and do not always respond the same as they do when awake - legs tend to go all over the place. He is not likely the one who actually weighed the dog for premeds/anaesthetic - probably was a nurse, though he may have asked the weight to draw up the drugs, depending on the clinic - sometimes the vet does it, sometimes the nurse does it. It would have been on his record though.

If you are unhappy with the way the vet handled your dog, I would talk to him about it.

I do not see this as an acceptable excuse to drag a dog across the floor and then lift it up on to the scales using the lead as the op had described.

How hard can it be to look up the dog's file or ask the nurse to do it? If the dog was so groggy, surely this would have been a better option? Otherwise, get two people to lift him onto the scales if he is that groggy.

I didn't say it was an acceptable excuse, but a possible reason. I agree that looking it up in the dog's file or have two people lift the dog would have been a better option.

[Kelly_Louise]

If I saw my dog get treated like that - I would never go back.

I've had to handle my own dogs when they've been groggy, but I can still treat them with care and respect and don't need to drag them or pull their skin to lift them up.

I look after my dogs with the utmost care, and expect someone I am paying alot of money to provide a service, to do the same.

I would not only feel that my dog is being disrespected, but also that they were disrespecting me by treating my dog like that.

I understand that most owners are softer with their own animals, and that people that work with animals have a job to do and usually have a need to approach it in a no-nonsense way... but there is a line, and this behaviour to me, would have crossed it.

I have an old dog that has bad legs, I know what it takes for her to become seriously lame with them - so when she came back from the specialist once with a shaved patch on her back leg, and barely able to walk on them - I knew she had not been treated the way I would expect (and the way her normal specialist would have treated her). I rang and complained, and asked questions of the interns until I kind of figured out what happened (they had tried to take blood from her back leg and had been pulling/twisting it without consideration of her previous leg treatments/issues) - and I spoke to them about how to avoid this in the future, and what kind of treatment and considerations I expected when she was in their care. We haven't had that problem since.

With my other dog, who is afraid of vets - I went through numerous ones and would not bother with any who could not understand and try to be patient with her. I went from one vet who forced things and told me that if she had to stay she would be handled with those poles with the ropes on the ends (sorry don't know the name) - to finding a vet who actually had some patience and knowledge on how to approach her, is kind and caring with her and she now can be handled by him with very little fuss (and he can do that still within our alloted appt space).

If a vet is giving up personal care and respect, or is too pressed for time to give it - I wouldn't go there anymore, because that is what I expect for my dogs.

[Red Fox]

Toughen up. Speak up.

If you feel that the way the vet treated your dog was unacceptable then it WAS. Say so. Would you let a doctor treat your child like that without saying anything? ...Perhaps it is the done thing? Didn't really hurt him? So what. It made you uncomfortable to the point where you cried and that should never happen.

You've no reason to be loyal to this vet, you're paying for his service, it's not a favour. His treatment of your dog has obviously damaged your trust in him.

Find a new vet and don't feel bad about it in the slightest.

[kiesha09]

The fact that you have posted about it here obviously shows you are very concerned about it. If I was concerned about it so much as to post about it on DOL then I'd be changing vets.

There are vets out there who will handle animals roughly and there are those that will be kind and gentle. I make the choice that I want my animals to be treated kindly and gently and so will seek out a vet that will treat them that way. Even if I have to search high and low for one that is a criteria I will not budge on.

Find a new vet. Who cares if you've been going there for years. He hasn't provided the service he is trained to in an acceptable manner which warrants leaving IMO.

[claireybell]

I think you are being over protective toward the dog.

The vet wants your custom he does not want to drive you away.

The vet does not necessarily have to know the weight of your dog as somebody else may have weighed and given the anesthetic.

Remember it's a busy vet surgery and the vet may have wanted to go and see other seriously ill patients.

Not all dogs are handled the same way as you and I do especially a very groggy one.

Cheers.

I completely disagree with this. I dont think the OP was being "over protective" of her dog at all. If it was me I would have been furious and would have said something right away.

[poodlefan]

Magstar:

My poor boy was being treated like a ragdoll and I was too timid to stop it .

I suggest you prepare a strategy for what you'll do next time something happens you're not happy with.

You can't change what happened.

You can change your vet if you choose to do so.

You can also change what you do in future when something happens you're unhappy with. As owners we are responsible for protecting the welfare of our dogs. My suggestion is that you channel this experience to produce a more positive result if there is ever a next time. You don't have to be confrontational.. a simple "he'll do it for me" and taking the lead would do.

These things are always best dealt with at the time.

But to answer the question. "Rough" handling isn't common in my experience. Not taking any shite from dogs, and the use of mild compulsion to achieve results is. Few professional veterinary practices I know have the time to bother about luring reluctant dogs into accepting procedures. Ditto groomers. If your dog put the brakes on, I'd not be surprised to see him towed onto the scales.

Does he go on freely for you? If not, it might be something to work on. I'd also make a point of knowing what he weighs. The scales are the normal first point of call for dogs and owners entering my vet's surgery on every visit. With the amount of time some owners take to get their dogs on the scales and stable, I can understand why a vet might take a more direct approach. The more prepared your dog is for handling and normal procedures, the easier it is for the dog and the vet. Our club actually teaches a 'steady' for handling and tolerance by the dog of handling all areas of the body including mouth and ears.

Edited February 17, 2011 by poodlefan

[baifra]

Sounds like he was a little rough and I would have been upset too.

Hope your boy is recovering well. Poor bub.

edited as post wasn't relevant

Edited February 18, 2011 by baifra

[oakway]

Magstar:

My poor boy was being treated like a ragdoll and I was too timid to stop it .

I suggest you prepare a strategy for what you'll do next time something happens you're not happy with.

You can't change what happened.

You can change your vet if you choose to do so.

You can also change what you do in future when something happens you're unhappy with. As owners we are responsible for protecting the welfare of our dogs. My suggestion is that you channel this experience to produce a more positive result if there is ever a next time. You don't have to be confrontational.. a simple "he'll do it for me" and taking the lead would do.

These things are always best dealt with at the time.

But to answer the question. "Rough" handling isn't common in my experience. Not taking any shite from dogs, and the use of mild compulsion to achieve results is. Few professional veterinary practices I know have the time to bother about luring reluctant dogs into accepting procedures. Ditto groomers. If your dog put the brakes on, I'd not be surprised to see him towed onto the scales.

Does he go on freely for you? If not, it might be something to work on. I'd also make a point of knowing what he weighs. The scales are the normal first point of call for dogs and owners entering my vet's surgery on every visit. With the amount of time some owners take to get their dogs on the scales and stable, I can understand why a vet might take a more direct approach. The more prepared your dog is for handling and normal procedures, the easier it is for the dog and the vet. Our club actually teaches a 'steady' for handling and tolerance by the dog of handling all areas of the body including mouth and ears.

[persephone]

Magstar:

My poor boy was being treated like a ragdoll and I was too timid to stop it .

I suggest you prepare a strategy for what you'll do next time something happens you're not happy with.

You can't change what happened.

You can change your vet if you choose to do so.

You can also change what you do in future when something happens you're unhappy with. As owners we are responsible for protecting the welfare of our dogs. My suggestion is that you channel this experience to produce a more positive result if there is ever a next time. You don't have to be confrontational.. a simple "he'll do it for me" and taking the lead would do.

These things are always best dealt with at the time.

But to answer the question. "Rough" handling isn't common in my experience. Not taking any shite from dogs, and the use of mild compulsion to achieve results is. Few professional veterinary practices I know have the time to bother about luring reluctant dogs into accepting procedures. Ditto groomers. If your dog put the brakes on, I'd not be surprised to see him towed onto the scales.

Does he go on freely for you? If not, it might be something to work on. I'd also make a point of knowing what he weighs. The scales are the normal first point of call for dogs and owners entering my vet's surgery on every visit. With the amount of time some owners take to get their dogs on the scales and stable, I can understand why a vet might take a more direct approach. The more prepared your dog is for handling and normal procedures, the easier it is for the dog and the vet. Our club actually teaches a 'steady' for handling and tolerance by the dog of handling all areas of the body including mouth and ears.

[poodlefan]

One more point.

Vets are not paid to train dogs. Few of them are dog trainers themselves. Their handling will be direct but should not cause pain. If your dog did not yelp or struggle, you might wish to reflect on why you are so upset. The fact that you saw your dog handled in a way you would not contemplate does not necessarily equate to cruelty or abuse. Short of that, why would you want to change vets from someone you appear to have been happy with in the past.

There are few methods of manoevering a reluctant 30 odd kilo dog onto scales that aren't pretty physical. I'm not sure I'd be willing to pick one up to do it.

Incidentally, I would always have a dog chiropracted after a GA. You might want to think about that.

Edited February 18, 2011 by poodlefan

[Kelly_Louise]

Incidentally, I would always have a dog chiropracted after a GA. You might want to think about that.

Especially when you watch those medical shows on TV and see how doctors treat humans when they're under GA No wonder they wake up bruised and sore!!!