whippets Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 if someone used one of my boys and produced a top winner all I can say is HELL YEAH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellcara Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 As the owner of stud dogs I have the right to specify whatever conidtions I deem necessary - and it's your right to accept them or not. I have used stud dogs with conditions that I was happy to accept ... I have declined some where I wasn't happy about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkrai Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I recently had an enquiry about using my dog from another breeder in my state.I think this is the more difficult enquiry to deal with! At the end of the day you are helping to produce your competition - like it or not, we are all out there to win. I was happy for my dog to be used, and happy for them to keep whatever they wanted, but asked them not to sell other show puppies within SA - pet puppies fine, other states not fussed. and thats why breeds are going down the crap hole... People are more worried about competition then bettering the breed, if your worried about competition then your better off getting a breed with no competition but yourself... Im not personally attacking you Zensu but that line I hear quite common with people who are looking for stud dogs and it really bugs me that people put competition before the breed... While I am not overly worried about competition I have sometimes wondered how fair it is when you have spent thousand importing and everyone thinks your competition should be able to access those same lines for the price of a stud fee? Really? So then I can access your lines for the price of Puppy that you breed to your bitch...? Im in the process if organising an import within the next 5-10yrs if someone came to me and asked to use my stud, I would be happy to allow them to use my expensive import for the cost of the stud fee if i agreed with their breeding practices and if the lines suited. Whats the point of the import/breeding if your not bettering the breed, you import may help another exhibitor better the breed... But then somepeople will wait deney them a stud, they'll wait for puppy to get the line, deny them a pup they'll wait for a friend to buy one and then use their dog... :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowenhart Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I won't use a stud dog where the stud dog owners dictate where and how the resulting pups are used.As a stud dog owner, I won't let my male be used by people if I don't like how they place their puppies. You contradict yourself....you say you won't be dictated to when you use a stud dog, but you feel you can tell those that use your stud, what they are to do? No Contradiction there Angelsun. I won't even ask to use a stud that comes with lots of restrictions on what I can or can't do with the options. If you can't trust the breeder (owner of the bitch) to decide the best for the puppies, then don't let the dog out to stud at all. What I do is, if you and the bitch pass muster (nice healthy bitch, who compliments my male and you are a reputable breeder) then you get to use my male without my interference. I don't have "public studs" so I can say yes/no to any enquiries. What I don't like is "Yes but..." with all the restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 I thought we bred for the betterment of the breed. That's the thing....but everyone has a different idea of what 'betterment' means...better for the breed, better for a line within a breed or better for the breeder of the breed? As written to a private email I got about this thread....we are arrogant to beleive that we OWN a line or pedigree. It is not ours to own. From one who's breed was on the thin edge of extinction in the mid fifties, I know all too well what happens when breeders get the attitude that they OWN a pedigree and deny it to everyone else. Why do we breed? To win at shows? To strengthen a breed that has very few in numbers so that our grandchildren can enjoy that breed later in their lives? To guard a pedigree and line for our own....why? Will anyone care in a hundred years who that person was? They will remember a name on a paper of a line that died out when the breeder passed on, because it was never allowed to be used by anyone else....clucking of the tongue and shaking of the head, with comments like "too bad too....would have been nice to have some of that now....the breed needs it" True story.... We breeders are a selfish and arrogant lot, and the sooner we step up to the plate and admit to that, the better our breeds will be a hundred years down the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rottsup Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I thought we bred for the betterment of the breed. That's the thing....but everyone has a different idea of what 'betterment' means...better for the breed, better for a line within a breed or better for the breeder of the breed? As written to a private email I got about this thread....we are arrogant to beleive that we OWN a line or pedigree. It is not ours to own. From one who's breed was on the thin edge of extinction in the mid fifties, I know all too well what happens when breeders get the attitude that they OWN a pedigree and deny it to everyone else. Why do we breed? To win at shows? To strengthen a breed that has very few in numbers so that our grandchildren can enjoy that breed later in their lives? To guard a pedigree and line for our own....why? Will anyone care in a hundred years who that person was? They will remember a name on a paper of a line that died out when the breeder passed on, because it was never allowed to be used by anyone else....clucking of the tongue and shaking of the head, with comments like "too bad too....would have been nice to have some of that now....the breed needs it" True story.... We breeders are a selfish and arrogant lot, and the sooner we step up to the plate and admit to that, the better our breeds will be a hundred years down the track. +1 angelsun, you said this perfectly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Angelsun - I agree with everything you have written. I have been told many times that we are only guardians - we do not own the bloodlines but as breeders we should aim to breed the best quality that we can. If we could put aside the bullshit between the owners of the dogs imagine how much better off the breeds will be. Edited February 20, 2011 by Andisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I thought we bred for the betterment of the breed. That's the thing....but everyone has a different idea of what 'betterment' means...better for the breed, better for a line within a breed or better for the breeder of the breed? As written to a private email I got about this thread....we are arrogant to beleive that we OWN a line or pedigree. It is not ours to own. From one who's breed was on the thin edge of extinction in the mid fifties, I know all too well what happens when breeders get the attitude that they OWN a pedigree and deny it to everyone else. Why do we breed? To win at shows? To strengthen a breed that has very few in numbers so that our grandchildren can enjoy that breed later in their lives? To guard a pedigree and line for our own....why? Will anyone care in a hundred years who that person was? They will remember a name on a paper of a line that died out when the breeder passed on, because it was never allowed to be used by anyone else....clucking of the tongue and shaking of the head, with comments like "too bad too....would have been nice to have some of that now....the breed needs it" True story.... We breeders are a selfish and arrogant lot, and the sooner we step up to the plate and admit to that, the better our breeds will be a hundred years down the track. Well said Angelsun. The arrogance and selfishness in some particular breeds never ceases to amaze me, coming from a breed where this thankfully, rarely applies with the use of stud dogs. Sadly it does apply in many instances of new exhibitors trying to get their first main register dog. We are the custodians of our breeds and our mission should be to deliver into the future the breed exactly as it was when we started, or improved in health, soundness and temperament. We should not try to change type to suit fashion and no one owns a line unless they invented a new breed. Everyone had to start with dogs from somewhere and they would not be breeding if someone hadn't shared "their lines" in the first place. We all like to win but if satin ribbons are more important than the breed you supposedly are devoted to, you are in the wrong hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Bettering the breed is not just about improving them against a standard it is also about making sure the breeds future is in good hands going forward. When you have fellow breeders that will give studs to pets with no health testing and will sell a puppy to basically anyone who asks you bet I care if they get hold of a puppy sired by my dog. And yes they will usually do it by approaching someone who has used your stud dog. I never want to see those dogs in puppy mills or owned by back yard breeders who pump litters out with no thought to the health of those puppies and wonder if they are sired by my dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyehaven Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Bettering the breed is not just about improving them against a standard it is also about making sure the breeds future is in good hands going forward. When you have fellow breeders that will give studs to pets with no health testing and will sell a puppy to basically anyone who asks you bet I care if they get hold of a puppy sired by my dog. And yes they will usually do it by approaching someone who has used your stud dog. I never want to see those dogs in puppy mills or owned by back yard breeders who pump litters out with no thought to the health of those puppies and wonder if they are sired by my dog. I agree with you, I will have strict condition on people using my dogs, and I feel no guilt for it, when they will be used, I will be making sure they are not getting into the wrong hands as best as I can, that is doing good for the breed, not the harm that some seem to think it does. IF the owner of the bitch earns my trust than they will be able to keep the pick puppy out of my dog to go on with, the rest will go the good pet homes and live a great life, I am happy with that. If I am not conviced that they will stick to my conditions or even believe in what I am doing, they won't be using them and my concence is clear that they will not get into the wrong hands. Edited February 20, 2011 by skyehaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinsella Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) First up - I am not a breeder, seriously haven't got the guts. But I was offered a dog from Ireland with the intention of adding to our very small gene pool. I brought him in and had only one honest approach to use him at first. The majority of breeders looked at him out of the corner of their eyes and said nothing. Except that I shouldn't let "just anyone" use him, especially the person who approached me openly<g>. He has 5 litters on the ground, 4 here and one in Ireland, yes, I actually sent Irish Wolfhound semen back to Ireland! His breeder has since died and so has the dog but there is a continuation in his puppies. They have half siblings in USA and the Netherlands and all show the same old fashioned IW strength. Linda Gover, my best friend and breeder, taught me that a dog is not an end unto itself but only as good as the future he can provide. She was freely giving of bloodlines and knowledge and I can be no less. I'm thrilled that his puppies are strong examples of the breed and feel a little pride in their achievements. I think exclusivity will be the death knell of pure bred dogs. There is always a risk in life - people may not always be as honest as they could. This doesn't mean you should trust no-one. As for people getting Linda's lines, that's just what she wanted! Otherwise they would only be wonderful pedigrees on paper with no dogs to back it up. I'd rather be mistaken than selfish. Edited February 22, 2011 by kinsella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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