JulesP Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 In your opinion what are the things that could squash/kill a dogs natural prey/toy drive? Environmental things? Things an owner does? Other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Definitely there are things an owner can do to reduce drive. But i find more often its what owners don't do that reduces it OR has it crop up inappropriately. Not playing with toys with the puppy/ dog is the big one for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 corrections, not playing with toys, weak nerve vs prey level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) What Nekhbet said. And the corrections can be purposeful or accidental. Edited February 16, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) Too much pressure in an environment too soon that the dog is uncomfortable in. Also agree with the not continuing to play with toys or never playing with toys from the time the dog was a pup. Edited February 16, 2011 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 The handler's play style can change in public too, (feeling conspicuous when no one else is using a toy at your club) which can inhibit the dog. Been there, done that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 When the owner is near by/has influence? or when the owner is away/has little influence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 The handler's play style can change in public too, (feeling conspicuous when no one else is using a toy at your club) which can inhibit the dog. Been there, done that! :D Me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 K9: It is impossible or near impossible to kill or extinguish prey drive in a dog, more likely to extinguish or reduce it close to the handler or in a certain environment through aversion training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Moving the toy towards the dog instead of away from the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) JulesP this is in light of your post in training re teaching a retrieve but I think its Susan Garrett who makes mention of dogs shaping their handlers to offer a preferred reward. So while you might have a toy driven dog, the dog might prefer food as its number one reinforcer so when offered the choice between a toy and a situation where they think food is on offer that the dog holds out for the food because the handler in the end gives in and brings out the food when the dog lacks engagement with the toy offered. Also wonder if its a case of the dog learning to find another outlet to gain satisfication for its prey (which comes back to pups and toys). Its easier to direct prey drive onto appropriate items from when they are a pup compared with trying to redirect inappropriately expressed prey drive in an older dog. Ness is a lot like your BCs - has really never been into toys - will fetch so long as I reward her with food but fetch or play with a toy for the sake of it nope. But yet she was the one who as a 7 month old pup took off after a car and went through years of chasing everything that moved and still would chase stuff given half a chance. She is however highly interested in food so I guess I never persisted with the toy play with her so she shaped me to work her for food. Sorry might be way off track with the reason you posted the original reply so forgive me if my response is of no use. Edited February 16, 2011 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koemi Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 corrections, not playing with toys, weak nerve vs prey level. I believe all these contribute to Tucky's lack of toy drive. He's so nervy when we get the toys out, even for 10 seconds at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) corrections, not playing with toys, weak nerve vs prey level. I believe all these contribute to Tucky's lack of toy drive. He's so nervy when we get the toys out, even for 10 seconds at a time. There's numerous things you could do to begin with. The first aim is to teach Tucky there's nothing to be nervy about in relation to the toys. The second step is to encourage and create his interest in them. You could try just getting the toys out and not doing anything with them. Just leave them laying around. Train him using food, with the toys just laying around. Ignore the toys. Focus on Tucky and your training regime. Repeat these sessions (I'd leave the toys where they are) and allow Tucky time to become used to them. When he's used to them and no longer appearing nervy of them, you could try playing with the toys by yourself and/or with another friend. Ignore Tucky whilst you're doing this. It can also be helpful if you know of someone's else's friendly dog who is ok to visit and let that dog play with you and the toys. And just let Tucky observe. ETA: I am presuming that by "nervy" you mean afraid/uncertain. Edited February 17, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubitty Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Is toy drive the same as prey drive? Bitty adores toys and can play for hours but last time in the park, I called her back from an injured bird without any trouble at all. Bubby on the other hand doesn't play with toys but there is no way we can call him off a bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Is toy drive the same as prey drive? The million dollar question. It's debatable. Panksepp says no. Kind of. But also slightly yes. I'm starting to see what he's getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 I don't think toy drive is prey drive but I think prey drive is nearest to it. Bitty has a modified prey drive Bub. Lots of breeding for a long time to enable you to call her off a bird 2 of my current dogs have a strong prey drive for what they have been developed for - herding. My dogs aren't super foody either Ness. The strongest drive they show is a pack drive. I think that is the drive I have most encouraged. The only one of my dogs that has received a correction when showing interest in a toy is Brock and it wasn't me that did the correcting! It was my old border, Fern. She wasn't telling him off but her thing was to chase the animal chasing the toy. Brock is so soft that he took that as a negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 you can have prey and play Steve is right, you are not actually killing the drive the dog potentially has, you're just supressing it. Some people manage to the point of total avoidance or a dog that has no ability to engage which is through how it is brought up/trained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangerineDream Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I'd be interested in how to reduce prey drive...Tango and mate's cat are going to be living together and Tango's prey drive is ENORMOUS!!!! I think he's going to spend a lot of time in a crate somehow, so any hints would be appreciated....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 e-collar and someone who knows how to use it properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Digby has absolutely no interest in toys whatsoever. I have clicker trained him to interact with a ball - but he definitely isn't playing. It seems to me that he never had toys as a puppy and that no one played with him. He does however love to chase flies, and he likes to stalk mice. But he can walk past birds and all that with no the slightest hint of prey drive - it is not quashed but just not there at all. I definitely think Digby's lack of toy interaction as a pup has meant he is quite unable to understand that certain items can be toys. I think the fly catching thing, which can be a little obsessive, might be that way because it was one thing he actually had access to as a puppy to amuse himself. He has some scarring on his neck which seems to indicate that before he came to us he was a dog that spent a lot of his life tied up. So yeah i'm just saying that I do think that a dogs early experiences can have a large effect on whether they develop play drive and prey drive and what they develop it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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