Staff'n'Toller Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 :rolleyes: I'm beginning to wonder if I too have a problem with my gorgeous 9 year old westie girl - the last two Saturday nights she has leaked and she looks so mortified. Its like normal urine and doesn't smell. She too has a damp bottom.I'll take her to the vet but SnT could you give me some detail about: The issue is that Stilboestrol and Propalin are worlds apart when it comes to cost, so it's up to your personal circumstances. I've got really heavy expenses at the moment so I would prefer something more affordable if that's what it is... TIA. It's just that Stilboestrol is kind of like cortisone- cheap as chips. Propalin comes in a syrup and is a new drug so it's costed accordingly. In small breeds you might actually find it fairly low cost. The good thing is you could start on Stilboestrol and move over later if your finances allow it. Check it out with your Vet though as I don't know the prices off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Thanks lablove - I'm very open minded and am certainly not adverse to natural therapies. So yes I'd be very interested in what you bought. Please PM if you prefer. Thanks very much for your post - much appreciated. Westiemum , I know a lot of people don't like to try natural cures, but for what it's worth, we have just cleared up our sheperds UTI using apple cider vinegar with the mother in it 10 ml mixed in food daily, homeopathy incontinence spray (3 sprays) for humans from the health food store mixed with about 10ml of colloidal silver, in a plastic container and let drink. cleared it up in a week Colloidal silver is an antibacterial, antifungal and antiviral. If you are still interested after reading this I can give you the makers of the ones I bought, all up cost $33 Also corn silk is meant to clear up incontinence in older dogs, I dont know whether you can get this from healthfood store or not. lablove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Thanks for your reply SnT - I'll certainly talk to the vet about whats best her. And at least I know there is an effective treatment. Thanks. Apart from the inconvenience she seems very unhappy with this too... I'm beginning to wonder if I too have a problem with my gorgeous 9 year old westie girl - the last two Saturday nights she has leaked and she looks so mortified. Its like normal urine and doesn't smell. She too has a damp bottom.I'll take her to the vet but SnT could you give me some detail about: The issue is that Stilboestrol and Propalin are worlds apart when it comes to cost, so it's up to your personal circumstances. I've got really heavy expenses at the moment so I would prefer something more affordable if that's what it is... TIA. It's just that Stilboestrol is kind of like cortisone- cheap as chips. Propalin comes in a syrup and is a new drug so it's costed accordingly. In small breeds you might actually find it fairly low cost. The good thing is you could start on Stilboestrol and move over later if your finances allow it. Check it out with your Vet though as I don't know the prices off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Thanks for your reply SnT - I'll certainly talk to the vet about whats best her. And at least I know there is an effective treatment. Thanks. Apart from the inconvenience she seems very unhappy with this too... My girl was very distressed by it. She clearly thought she'd done something wrong. Horrifies me to think some folk's response is to ban the dog from the house and that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Yep poodlefan - broke my heart to to see her cowering with sad eyes... as if she was waiting for a good telling off... which I would never do. I reassured her while I cleaned up the puddle. I know some would say I'm reading too much into her reaction - but they didn't see her last night. ;) As for banning her from the house and my bed - what a terrible thing to do to a gorgeous girl who is doing absolutely nothing wrong - she's just simply getting older. Like you, it would never enter my head and I simply wouldn't do it - we'll find a way through this with as little disruption to our normal routine as possible... Just might need to make sure I toilet her a couple of times before bedtime and that she's on the towel (or two) on my bed until I'm sure whats going on here... she's my beautiful girl who I love dearly and we'll work it out. Thanks for your reply SnT - I'll certainly talk to the vet about whats best her. And at least I know there is an effective treatment. Thanks. Apart from the inconvenience she seems very unhappy with this too... My girl was very distressed by it. She clearly thought she'd done something wrong. Horrifies me to think some folk's response is to ban the dog from the house and that's it. Edited February 20, 2011 by westiemum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) I toilet Lil last thing before bedtime. She knows the routine now and heads out, usually with the boys following. The Stilboestrol is working for her. My vet said there's about a one in ten thousand chance of it affecting her bone marrow. I'll take those odds. Edited February 20, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Thanks poodlefan - those odds suit me just fine too. I toilet Lil last thing before bedtime. She knows the routine now and heads out, usually with the boys following.The Stilboestrol is working for her. My vet said there's about a one in ten thousand chance of it affecting her bone marrow. I'll take those odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Thanks poodlefan - those odds suit me just fine too.I toilet Lil last thing before bedtime. She knows the routine now and heads out, usually with the boys following.The Stilboestrol is working for her. My vet said there's about a one in ten thousand chance of it affecting her bone marrow. I'll take those odds. My old Dobe bitch was on it for around 3 or 4 years from memory and in the last year of her life was on two a week. I took those odds and never had an issue. It pays to be informed so you can look for signs of a problem but I honestly don't think I have ever seen a dog with a concerning side effect from stilboesterol in the 15 years I worked in veterinary hospitals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Thanks OSO - good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) OSS, what are the symptoms to look for? I've been googling my little heart out and think I might change Honey's food- I've read several accounts where that has made a difference. Interestingly I changed Honey from Artemis to Nutro (due to supply issues) just before the leaking started. It would be wonderful if it was diet based & could be reversed if I change back- it's a long shot though. Also I might see if I can find some soy based treats- apparently the plant oestrogens may help. eta: Just looking through old posts on incontinence and I found an intriguing quote NoisyMina linked from another article. It made me laugh, but I'm going to try it!! Alternative Treatments for Incontinence I don't know if your dog would be amenable, but when our spayed female started leaving puddles when she was sleeping we started her on a tail-wagging program to increase the strength of her pelvic floor muscles (like Kegels for dogs). We taught her to wag her tail on command by shaping the tail wag using a clicker and treats, and eventually got her to the point where she could wag vigorously when we asked her to. She stopped leaking about a week after the regular wagging exercises began. Now she does 3 sets of 30 wags every day, and she has never leaked again. Just a thought for you and anyone else who might want to try a non-drug option for spay-incontinence. Our vet was so pleased with this program that she gave us a free set of shots when we taught her about it! Edited February 22, 2011 by dee lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 That is superb! DOLers are soooo clever... OSS, what are the symptoms to look for? I've been googling my little heart out and think I might change Honey's food- I've read several accounts where that has made a difference. Interestingly I changed Honey from Artemis to Nutro (due to supply issues) just before the leaking started. It would be wonderful if it was diet based & could be reversed if I change back- it's a long shot though. Also I might see if I can find some soy based treats- apparently the plant oestrogens may help. eta: Just looking through old posts on incontinence and I found an intriguing quote NoisyMina linked from another article. It made me laugh, but I'm going to try it!! Alternative Treatments for Incontinence I don't know if your dog would be amenable, but when our spayed female started leaving puddles when she was sleeping we started her on a tail-wagging program to increase the strength of her pelvic floor muscles (like Kegels for dogs). We taught her to wag her tail on command by shaping the tail wag using a clicker and treats, and eventually got her to the point where she could wag vigorously when we asked her to. She stopped leaking about a week after the regular wagging exercises began. Now she does 3 sets of 30 wags every day, and she has never leaked again. Just a thought for you and anyone else who might want to try a non-drug option for spay-incontinence. Our vet was so pleased with this program that she gave us a free set of shots when we taught her about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) OSS, what are the symptoms to look for? I've been googling my little heart out and think I might change Honey's food- I've read several accounts where that has made a difference. Interestingly I changed Honey from Artemis to Nutro (due to supply issues) just before the leaking started. It would be wonderful if it was diet based & could be reversed if I change back- it's a long shot though. Also I might see if I can find some soy based treats- apparently the plant oestrogens may help. eta: Just looking through old posts on incontinence and I found an intriguing quote NoisyMina linked from another article. It made me laugh, but I'm going to try it!! ;) Alternative Treatments for Incontinence I don't know if your dog would be amenable, but when our spayed female started leaving puddles when she was sleeping we started her on a tail-wagging program to increase the strength of her pelvic floor muscles (like Kegels for dogs). We taught her to wag her tail on command by shaping the tail wag using a clicker and treats, and eventually got her to the point where she could wag vigorously when we asked her to. She stopped leaking about a week after the regular wagging exercises began. Now she does 3 sets of 30 wags every day, and she has never leaked again. Just a thought for you and anyone else who might want to try a non-drug option for spay-incontinence. Our vet was so pleased with this program that she gave us a free set of shots when we taught her about it! I know bone marrow suppression is the main worry. Found this online. SOunds like what I remember - honestly can't think off the top of my head what a dog with bone marrow suppression would look like but I guess they would be lethargic and probably off their food. SIDE EFFECTSNo side effects are expected at the doses of DES used to treat urinary incontinence. At higher doses, estrogens such as DES can be suppressive to the bone marrow leading to dangerous drops in red cell count, white cell count, and/or platelet count. At higher doses DES may also cause signs of estrus, lack of appetite, vomiting, diarrhea, vaginal discharge, pyometra (infection in the uterus), lethargy, increased water intake and urination, and bleeding. High doses have rarely even resulted in death. DES use in males may cause feminization. I know it was something I was told to look out for and had to have period checks on her (can't remember the intervals - she has been gone for a while now). Oh love the tail wagging exercises. My friends Dobe wagged her tail on cammand. She taught her as she didn't really like being shown so she taught her to stand with her feet in the appropriate areas, then to drop her nose down a little then to wag her tail. Worked well Edited February 22, 2011 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxagirl Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 Bondi has been put on Stilboestrol, hopefully it does the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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