Feeding Raw- Question

[aussielover]

If I feed only bones and meat to an adult dog, is this going to cause health problems?

How do you know if your dog has a balanced diet on a homemade diet?

I use carrots as a filler in my dogs food (to make her feel more full), but they just go straight through her. I assume I would have to mush any veggies or fruit that I chose to add into a raw diet?

What is the difference between barf and prey model and raw?

[erinonthefarm]

My understanding is, Raw and barf are the same thing, prey model does not include grains or vegetables, but green tripe which is nearly impossible to get.

In terms of veg, use a juicer and put the pulp from your vegie juice into the mix. It may still come out the other end unchanged but it gives the gut more of a chance to extract. I have heard other people blend frozen veg as the fibre is already broken down from being frozen and I am going to try using seaweed powder for the antioxidants.

[luvsdogs]

My old, previous border collie was allergic to wheat & became incontinent so I put her on raw bones, mostly chicken & the odd lamb neck with a little nature's gift can. The eating of the bones improved the look of her teeth & she had this diet for about 4 years. When I discovered kibble that had oats instead of wheat I also gave her this the last year of her life. She lived to almost 15 yrs.

You can also give raw eggs, sardines in oil, natural yoghurt, flax seed oil. I used to make the Billinghurst, barf before pre made patties, diet for April back in the late 90's. The vegies need to be pulverised/crushed as in a juice extractor. Originally I used to put it in a the blender but made a very wet mix.

I guess you'd call the prey model diet more Tom Lonsdales type diet.

[Staranais]

If I feed only bones and meat to an adult dog, is this going to cause health problems?

?

Depends what you mean by "meat".

If you feed only bones and chicken muscle meat, then yes, I can think of many nutrients you'll be lacking that could cause problems over the long term.

If you feed bones and a mixture of muscle meats from mammals, birds & fish, organ meats, skin, in appropriate proportions then most people get away with that just fine.

How do you know if your dog has a balanced diet on a homemade diet

The only sure way to know (short of collecting a lot of dogs & doing long term diet trials with them) is by doing a lot of maths & comparing your results to the NRC/AAFCO recommendations, or by using a nutritional program like Zootrition:

http://www.zootrition.org/

Of course, that raises the question of how the NRC and AAFCO themselves determined the recommended levels of nutrients in dog food - the evidence is a lot sketchier for some nutrients than others!

I use carrots as a filler in my dogs food (to make her feel more full), but they just go straight through her. I assume I would have to mush any veggies or fruit that I chose to add into a raw diet?

Cook and mush the veges & they'll be absorbed much more readily. Some people feed no vegetable or fruit matter in their diet and seem to get away with it just fine. I wouldn't do this unless I was feeding a good quantity of green tripe in the diet, and even then I'd probably include some extra fruit.

What is the difference between barf and prey model and raw?

Prey model and BARF are both types of raw (or mostly raw) diet. Prey model feeders attempt to recreate the proportions of organ/meat/bone found in a typical prey animal, and often do not feed vegetable matter. BARF feeders follow the diet decribed by Dr Ian Billinghurst (and therefore generally include vegetable matter, a higher % of bones, and often more supplements in the diet).

[Diva]

'Raw feeding' is the overarching term, it includes both BARF and prey model, but as a concept it was around a long time before either of those terms was coined and it isn't limited to those two diets either.

As Staranais says, prey model feeders try to emulate the proportions of meat/offal/bone in prey animals, and also at its purist emulate how the food presents itself - so some days a large meal, some days of fasting, big chunks of food the animal has to work at. It's too hard for me to do properly in suburbia.

On the other hand the high portion of minced meats in commercial, or even home made, Dr B style BARF diets seem a bit weird to me too, as does the high proportion of fruit and veg. (Not to mention that my dogs won't eat his product.) But if you do feed fruit and veg you need to break down the cell walls so a juicer or blender is recommended.

As for balance, using a variety of meat animals in the diet and a variety of offal along with muscle meats is a good safeguard. Just chicken or just lamb etc will probably get you into trouble eventually. The hidden potential risk I think with balance is the low nutrient content of modern factory farming produced meats - in an article I read raising the issue as one of concern for human health, the lesser amount of iron in a chicken wing produced today compared to one from 20 years ago was significant. For the major nutrients that change may not matter much for dogs leading a modern life style, but I am not so sure about that for trace elements so a low level supplement may not be a bad idea if you can't feed some 'wild' or purely pasture raised meats.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Diva

[Mason_Gibbs]

I feed Mason roo, lamb and goat both meat and bones and heart, liver and kidney when I can get ( only those 3 due to allergies) and then sweet potato, pumpkin, and broccoli or cauliflower. He also gets cheese, yoghurt and eggs and once a week some sardines. He gets fish oil and evening primrose caps daily. For snacks he gets banana and pear or paw paw when I can find it. My derm seems happy with this and I am sure she would point out if he was lacking anything ;) His stomach troubles are none existent now and he itches way way less.

[bianca.a]

I feed raw (raw meaty bones, muscle meat and organ meat). I aim for at least 5 different protein types a week. I do not feed vegetables or fruit on a regular basis.

[Jed]

I suggest if you intend feeding raw, you purchase Ian Billinghurst's Give A Dog A Bone, and Tom Londsale's book on prey model feeding.

I don't think anyone on a forum has time to give you full and relevant information, no matter how much they want to. The books are not expensive and well worth buying.

If you feed fruit and vegetables, they must be broken down via a juicer or food processor, as dogs cannot digest cellulose, which is a problem unless the food is chopped/broken down. And you will achieve balance by feeding a large variety of fruit/veges/ Some contain various enzymes, some various vitamins, if you feel a variety,over time, the chances of the dog being fed a balanced diet increases.

Buy the books ;)