Staranais Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Anyone got any informative links or resources specifically about clicker (or similar) forms of training for dogs that are undergoing short or long term veterinary hospitalisation? Have been experimenting myself with this in the last few weeks when working at a referral centre where we have several long term patients. Started out as me trying to see whether I could teach them anything that would make my caring for them more efficient (e.g. to stand on cue for a bandage change instead of me having to get someone else to hold them in position) but very quickly realised that I had no hope achieving that in the time I have available (literally minutes per dog per day) and especially with dogs that are both stressed out and have usually never "learned to learn". However I've been interested to see that most of the small group of dogs I've done any marker training with with have become significantly calmer and less hectic throughout the day (as well as much happier to see me - classical conditioning of course, "here comes the roast chicken lady!" vs "here comes the injection and thermometer lady!" ). & this improvement is after probably 5 minute sessions of marker training for no more than once or twice a day, focusing merely on nose targeting and/or name recognition only (= both very simple skills that even non-ambulatory dogs can perform). Being in a strange and essentially incomprehensible environment where people routinely do nasty things to you has got to be chronically stressful. I'm thinking that merely regaining some feeling of control over their environment for even a few minutes a day is doing these guys a world of good (and making them into much more pleasant patients). Hopefully someone here has some links on this specific topic, I haven't turned up any myself. I'm particularly interested to find out about any other veterinary practices that have tried proactively training/communicating with patients - do they have specific training protocols, how do they fit these into their day, and what have the results of them been. Edited February 12, 2011 by Staranais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I'm sorry I don't have any links. I have used clicker training to help a noise phobic Cocker we had in long-term for leg fracture complications. I conditioned him to stop screaming when approached (he is a very strange dog) to let us do a collar grab and clip a lead on vs having to catch him in a noose lead whilst he was on his way out of the cage, and was starting to teach him to put his paws up on the cage door one at a time (that was just for fun). The difference was though he was our only patient at times and I have a fair bit of down-time with our clinic structure. I think it's great for dogs who are effectively in solitary to have a bit of brain stimulation each day. We have a tame lori now who's owners haven't showed up and he loves loves loves his clicker time. Even if he's a cheeky sh*t and mostly tries to get treats for not doing very much. It's difficult to do in an already stressed dog - for something like a bandage change as you would know you need to pull them out 10 X more often to go through the drill and make it a pleasant experience for every 1 time you pull them out for a procedure - quite hard in a busy clinic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipsqueak Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Perhaps have a look at the "Open Paw" program. It's designed to be used by volunteers in shelters to teach dogs basic skills, but also promote calm behaviour. http://www.openpaw.org/about/shelters.html ETA - program originated in the UK ( I think ) by Kellie/Kerrie Gorman (I can never remember her name!) Edited February 12, 2011 by futuredogtrainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) Thanks Staff'n'Toller - yes, it's hard to actually teach a stressed dog anything substantial or useful, especially when you have merely a few minutes a day in which to do it (as is the case for most vet & vet nursing staff in most clinics!) I was mostly just interested in the difference in attitude of these dogs after only a few minutes training per day. One dog in particular I was working with became much less vocal and less defensive when I handled him, despite being in considerable discomfort after pelvic surgery, after only two short marker sessions with me (just learning to target his nose to my hand). Who would have thought such a tiny amount of training would apparently be so beneficial for them? Pity no one seems to have studied this, so far as I can tell. Futuredogtrainer, that's really interesting, although it's probably not applicable to our situation, I still found it fascinating - thanks. Edited February 13, 2011 by Staranais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I've also been trying out some marker training on all our puppy spay/neuters. I've noticed that they have become a lot calmer, less barking, howling etc after a session. They are also much more happy to see me, and I've even managed to teach a few pups some simple tricks like shake hands, roll on back, touch etc. I haven't tried it with any of our older patients as I find puppies much more receptive to training and interaction in a short period. There have been a number of studies on the effect of training shelter dogs, and their subsequent adoptability and adoption success rates. I will have to dig up some of my old essays to get the referenced though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappie Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I haven't seen any specific studies but if you come across any good info then I'd love to see the links. I'd really like to get our nurses involved in activities like this but it's hard to find extra time. We've had a couple of parvo pups in recently, it's difficult with them being in isolation, but I'm trying hard to get people to spend even a minute or so at a time doing something 'nice' each time they are in there. Otherwise it becomes a twice daily routine of injections and poking and prodding - I'm trying to get the nurses to work for tail wags instead of the dogs working for food I think I'm the biggest user/giver of liver treats in our clinic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogs4Fun Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Just be careful that you don't tread on the owner's toes with this - make sure you discuss your plans with the owners. If someone decided to teach my dog something while it was in their care and it affected something else I was training, I would not be happy. In fact this happened - one of my dogs was at the breeders boarding, and they took it into their head to try to train a speak on command in a very sloppy manner (they are not obedience people and I have no idea why they thought this was a good idea, he was not a barky dog). It would then have been more difficult to get a reliable SOC for UD should I have wanted one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 I've turned up nothing so far, Rappie. Either no one out there is doing systematic training or counterconditioning for medical procedures in their long term hospitalised patients, or they're not writing about it. I guess manhandling and muzzling patients every time they're "difficult" is both easier and quicker for staff to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 The only thing I'd want taken into consideration is that a stressed, ill or recovering dog may not be in a "learning mood". The key would be to identify which dogs should simply be left alone. I'd also want to ensure that owners have given permission for this to occur. I can tell you that one of my dogs will not take treats from anyone in a vet clinic - he simply doesn't want to be there and wont' take treats from strangers. You'd have no chance of clicker training anything in a vet clinic but he'd happily accept a cuddle and or a walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) To be honest, I do not (and will not) specifically seek permission from the owner to give suitable treats or interaction to any of our hospitalised patients. I suspect few if any veterinary staff would. What and when to feed a hospitalised patient is generally a medical decision, and making patients as comfortable as possible is simply part of good nursing care. The dogs are learning every time veterinary staff interact with them, whether or not we deliberately teach them. I'd rather they learned to be a little more relaxed and happy with the situation, so far as possible, especially if we're going to have them here for weeks or months. On the rare occasions that owners tell us that they have specific dietary or training or grooming instructions they wanted followed for hospitalised patients, staff here of course comply so far as it is practical & doesn't interfere with patient wellbeing. However, my default is fast becoming to attempt to teach my hospitalised cases a positive association with myself and with the procedures I do to them, when I can spare the time to do so. From the results I've seen, I suspect I'll keep doing this when I graduate, if I end up in smallies practice. Edited February 17, 2011 by Staranais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappie Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Going slightly off topic, but do you have access to VIN? There are some good rounds transcripts on there from a vet called Sophia Yin on low stress handling and restraint in veterinary hospitals. She has published a handbook style reference that comes with a DVD. I haven't actually seen the book in the flesh, but I have found the transcripts quite interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Going slightly off topic, but do you have access to VIN?There are some good rounds transcripts on there from a vet called Sophia Yin on low stress handling and restraint in veterinary hospitals. She has published a handbook style reference that comes with a DVD. I haven't actually seen the book in the flesh, but I have found the transcripts quite interesting. I do have VIN - but haven't found the Sophia Yin things on VIN yet! Will go have a look, sounds just like what I'm after. Thanks very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappie Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If you go to the Library section, the to Rounds and search for 'low stress handling' it should be the first result. I had completely forgotten about it. The behaviour boards are quite interesting too - not sure if you go there, but a lot of 'big names' of veterinary behaviour post there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Thanks, that's so helpful! I did a search of the boards, but must have used the wrong key words since nothing much turned up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Sophia Yin's book is available in abridged version for free download at the moment. She has video as well available. Good stuff!! http://lowstresshandling.drsophiayin.com/online/abridged/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappie Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Thanks Jigsaw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Yes, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 No problem! Just wish I hadn't rushed out and bought the book and DVD! Bugger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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