Ons Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 do they need to be socialised as much as a puppy going to a pet home? will letting them play with toys make them "soft"? I'm talking about working dog breeds that are going to farms to work on livestock but any thoughts about any working dogs would be good thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 how will toys make them soft? They need mental stimulation, a way to release their drive. Find appropriate toys. As for socialisation, an unsocialised skittish working dog is useless. They should be just as if not more socialised then a pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Personally I feel that play (object and social), social skills and novel expeiences all aid in brain development and help puppies adapt. Confidence also helps pups bounce back from an aversive situation. If the working lines are sufficiently strong, no toy is going to turn them soft. My pup is spoiled and adored at home (lots of toys, dog/human/cat play, cuddles) but you should see her turn serious when she sees a bird - 100% work ethic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I still want to understand who told you that toys make them soft, and what theory that stems from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ons Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 its not me Nekhbet, just a "breeder" that I know who has this idea I'm trying to educate her so I just wanted some facts, I couldnt believe that when she told me about the toys I 100% agree with you. My coolie puppy loves playing with her toys by herself or with me, it's a good way for her to get off energy without annoying my other dogs all the time. It's great mental stimulation for her and I also think a good way of her to bond with me when I play tug or fetch games with her and her toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Honestly, I wouldn't waste your breath. I doubt the breeder is going to listen and it is going to cause angst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ons Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 Nekhbet, I was posting my secnod post when you posted yours. Her theory is that another breeder breeds the same working dogs and her dogs are "soft" and my friend thinks that this is because she allows them to play with toys. I would have thought it would be genetic from the breeding not whether they play with toys or not. The pups are in pens with nothing to do but rumble, no toys at all. Its sad especially when I see how much joy toys give my girl . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) I believe early socialisation is crucial for development of ALL BREEDS regardless of whether they are going to be Guide Dogs,Police Dogs, herd sheep or cattle, sniff drugs at airports or just be a Pet, that should be a pleasure to be around and a good member of the K9 community. I know that a lot of farmers do not make 'pets' of working dogs but perhaps many do (and more should) as those that do have found this improves the metal state of their dogs. The majority of "Working dogs" in Police, Customs and Guide Dogs have a 'home life' not disimilar to their Pet counterpart. They would never have made it through their difficult training if their breeders had not given them the stimulation (toys) and socialisation they needed to develop whilst still puppies. Edited February 12, 2011 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Ons, at the end of the day a working dog is only performing what is genetically driven to do and thus probably derives enjoyment (yes, very emotive words ) We consider it "work" but perhaps it's all just a game..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I am sorry I can't give you references for this, but pups need different sights, sounds, experiences, places, and things to do (ie, toys) to develop their brains. Toys should include smooth ones, ropes, soft toys, squeaky blah blah ... the more the better. All dogs benefit, not just "pet" dogs. A friend of mine has been breeding very good working collies (with a dash of whatever) for about 60 years. The pups run extensively, and have all sorts of things to investigate - including balls, ropes and kids toys. 99.9% will be working dogs, they are too busy for life in the 'burbs. Never seems to hurt them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Nekhbet, there are so many myths that older and some young breeders of working dogs for farms, are told, they would blow your socks off. Must never have toys Must never be patted Must never go near the house Must never do this Must never do that I always feel sorry for the dogs that are kept like this. Thank goodness they are not all kept like this and the message is starting to get through. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ons Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 keener to work if they are half starved - that's from another person that I have heard the life of a working dog on a farm can not be good sometimes on the other hand some farmers love their working dog, they are treated as their best mate, go everywhere with them on the back of the utes. Whilst it's probably not as a good as life that we would want for our own "pet" dogs the dogs are very happy living it. AND I would think that these dogs would give 110% to the farmers when they want them to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 My first Dane was rescued from a home where she was beaten and never left the house/socialised because 'it would make her a better guard dog'. Um no it turned her into a terrified wreck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 There is a number of trainers out there that believe a dog should never be left with toys as they should look to their owner for fun and not find it themselves. There is also a number of people who believe their dogs should never be fed, patted or rewarded by anyone other then the handler as they will look to others for rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I don't know about farm dogs. But for my working dog, I wanted her to have lots of access to toys, and get the snot socialised out of her, before I got her. A working dog with undeveloped or repressed drive, or that's nervy from being undersocialised, is no use to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runner Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Got farm working and hunting dogs here, they all are socialised, and have plenty of toys. When not working or hunting they are taken out, to parks or bush for a run, to the local dog swimming dams or a walk into town to the shops. They take holidays with us and have been around more of australia than most people I know. Better loved, fed and exercised than any 'purely pet' dogs that I know anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumof3 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 The very good Scott Lithgow book (can't remember the title, but it might it is someting to do with Working Dogs - perhaps someone else can suggest), has a good section on the raising of working dog puppies. Importantly is teaching from a very early age the ability to calm down from stimulus. So, say in a week old pup, slightly agitate (not in a cruel way, but just maybe brush its back against the grain of the hair slightly roughly, just to raise a slight brain chemical response), then calm down again with gentle petting. This process strengthens neural pathways / processes that are important in calming down and particularly in kelpies and collies, it can be very valuable to have a dog that has a good ability to calm themselves down, not just excite. I would say good and kind handling (the above process is not to be in any way unkind), is especially important in working dog puppies. They should be handled well, kindly and strongly from birth. I see no reason why a working dog shouldn't live around the house, and shouldn't have toys. I see every reason why dogs should be given something appropriate to chew on, rather than be permitted to get into trouble for chewing the wrong things. The main reason I can see why working dogs may not live around the house is that there are often quite alot of them on a property, and having 10 or even 3 dogs live in the house is not everyones cup of tea. I would expect a good dog to be well adjusted, know the rules of the household and trustworth with children, but of course this is not always the case and not all working dogs are given an ideal upbringing or chance in the world at all. Unfortunately there is alot of old fashioned training, management and opinion out here in the bush, with regards both dogs and horses. New trains of thought are making an increasing impact though, and are clearly the way of the future - they simply tend to get better, more reliable results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 There is a number of trainers out there that believe a dog should never be left with toys as they should look to their owner for fun and not find it themselves. There is also a number of people who believe their dogs should never be fed, patted or rewarded by anyone other then the handler as they will look to others for rewards. ahh security dog people. Dont forget the more you lock your dog up the better worker it becomes yup, when they're crazy from hours of solitary confinement of course they go off their nut I dont totally agree with specialised sevice animals going to just pet homes for the first 12 months. Theres a lot of good development opportunites being missed with some types of dogs. Be interesting to do an experiment with one litter sent to pet homes, repeat the mating then send the next lot to be in house trained by experienced people and compare the success rate at 12 months, especially for dogs like detection and protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay. Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Imo, a working bred puppy should have the same, if not more socialization then a pet puppy toys will make them soft.. what a lot of crap quite sad really. Edited February 12, 2011 by DogSportObsessed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Probably more than you wanted to know here, but maybe picking a few choice quotes might strengthen your argument? http://www.marthalakecov.org/~building/neu...in_response.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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