Rileys mum Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hi guys, i know there is a post similar to this one running at the moment but i didnt want to hijac it. I need ideas (and possibly behavioural advice) regarding my dogs complete inatention and disregard for me when outside of the house. I have had this issue for a little while now and although he is definatley better than he was i still feel like i need to work on the issue.(im 100% certain its something im doing so i really need some advice) Inside the house i have his undivided attention. I can use the lowest of the low value treat and i still have his eyes on me, waiting. Step outside of the house and i have a completely different dog. He is inatentive and at times disobedient. He is often so distracted that even when he does something positive and i click and reward, he completely ignores the reward and doesnt take it. This makes it difficult to positively mark his good behaviours because even though he offers what i ask, he is still distracted from my existence whilst doing so.....i hope that makes sense. In short, basically he is well behaved but i know that i have absolutely no attention from him and when i do ask him to say 'watch' me, im 99% unlikely to get it in an instant. Its usually based on me sitting for about 5+ minutes before he disengages from whatever is distracting him and looks at me. My train of thought is that the outside world holds a hugely higher value than ANYTHING i am offering him and he chooses to self engage in that. Which is where i need some ideas of really juicy, sloppy messy awesome high value rewards to shift his high value of the outside world, more towards me. He is a positive, happy go lucky tempermented dog and his behaviour is not a negative one as such, its just an overly stimulated one. He is a high energy, extremely social GSP. My idea as of tonight is to bring him rigggghhhhht back to basics of standing on my driveway and offering a massive high value treat every time he looks at me. From there i will slowly progress to adding distractions and moving locations etc. Do others think this will be a positive step? if not, what other ideas do people suggest? Ive also been reading up on susan garretts 'ruff love' methods. I do like alot of the concepts and although i probably wont be in a position to follow it 100% due to work commitments im also feeling like it may be something worth trying so i can set clear boundaries etc. what are peoples thoughts? as far as treats: Ive done boiled meats (chicken, beef etc), slow oven cooked liver (home made), fish, fritz (which so far is his highest value treat but even so it gets ignored whilst outside the house), cheese, and an array of shop bought, chewy treats. none of them have really tickled his fancey. he will eat them but is in no way obsessed with me when im holding one. he is not very toy motivated at the best of times and im working really hard on building drive in that department. i know a toy would be of no reward to him outside of the house (it barely holds any value inside the house) I was thinking of things like canned dog or cat food, tuna, gravy dipped beet/chicken treats etc but im wondering how i will be able to effectively use them without getting completely covered in gunk. Has anyone got any ideas for crazy, messy, delicious treats that have worked successfully with their dogs? sorry if this is a bit of a ramble but ive just got home from a very uninspiring session with my boy and im needing a bit of advice and motivation For info, he is attending regular obedience and is just starting puppy agility this coming week. he is highly distracted whilst at obedience and although i can usually keep him working with me, its a constant effort which is a bit hit and miss. He also gets a 30 min run off leash in the mornings and a few short training sessions mixed in with a walk/off leash run of about 45-60 mins in the evening every day. He is well excercised he is 14 months old. so still a baby, i know, but i feel i really need to sort this out. Im completely convinced he is mentally capable of doing what i ask of him. cheers, sorry for the ramble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Dog Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Scarlett has struggled at times with distraction. We use raw kangaroo fillet. She will do almost anything for it. We use it when we're out and other dogs are around. A little messy for us but well worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Have you tried Happy Paws Training Treats? My lot LOVE them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I find the size/presentation of the treat and/or the rate with which you deliver it, much more important than what it actually is. Eg if you dog is not interested in a 1cm cube of chicken, try a whole chicken schnitzel & break a piece off every x seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) I had a problem with my girl getting distracted with smells during agility. I found sliced liver pan fried & cut into cubes & also minced kangaroo or other mince with garlic, herbs & parmeson cheese mixed through & roughly fried. I used the clicker...when she would get distracted & start to sniff I would say "here" & at first I clicked & treated as soon as she started to respond (turn her head), then built this up to her turning to me as soon as I called. Start by doing it in an environment free of distractions to get him used to the clicker & treats. My girl just loves the clicker & as soon as she knows I have that in my hand, she starts to offer all sorts of behaviours. But start with little tiny steps & build it up...you have to be patient....Rome wasn't built in a day ETA...I just read Vickies post above & I agree...make a big thing out of the treat...take time to break it up in front of him talking all the time about how good he is. Edited February 9, 2011 by sheena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korbin13 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Mine love fish but I don't like the mess. While at the seafood counter buying prawns for the cat, I spotted the seafood extender. My dogs love it and it is really smelling so I mix it up with the other treats. And it is clean and easy to cut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Scarlett has struggled at times with distraction. We use raw kangaroo fillet. She will do almost anything for it. We use it when we're out and other dogs are around. A little messy for us but well worth it Yep, raw meat works best for us too. I've had success with lamb because it's a bit smelly... It might be useful for you to take a look at a book called 'Click to Calm'. It's designed for reactive dogs, but I found it useful with my girl who can get very excited around other dogs. There is a game in it called 'Look at that!' or something similar which is recommended on these forums a lot... I have found that method a lot easier than expecting my girl to focus on me the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeGee Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 for high value we use happy paws training treats. for ultra desperate measures, we use chunkers from the supermarket... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 It really is different for different dogs. I used raw beef chunks once and the dogs were not super interested. I was rather peeved as i am a vego so holding the chunks was rather traumatic!!! They looveeeee the cats kibble though! BBQ chicken always goes down well though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The absolute high value treat and food to entice a reluctant eater is cooked rabbit. Just boil up a whole rabbit and then remove all the meat from the bones, discarding the cooked bones of course. I have yet to find any dog that can resist cooked rabbit meat unless it is at deaths door. I mainly use it for sick dogs that have lost their appetite but it works well as a training treat when desperate measures are called for. My dogs go nuts as soon as you start to cook it. Expensive, unless you have someone who likes to go rabbiting and very messy to bone out, but it isn't messy to handle and dogs love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The absolute high value treat and food to entice a reluctant eater is cooked rabbit. Just boil up a whole rabbit and then remove all the meat from the bones, discarding the cooked bones of course. I have yet to find any dog that can resist cooked rabbit meat unless it is at deaths door. I mainly use it for sick dogs that have lost their appetite but it works well as a training treat when desperate measures are called for. My dogs go nuts as soon as you start to cook it. Expensive, unless you have someone who likes to go rabbiting and very messy to bone out, but it isn't messy to handle and dogs love it. Amber will not even lick Rabbit. She hated it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundyburger Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Have you tried Happy Paws Training Treats? My lot LOVE them! So does my boy.. BUT even the happy paws don't hold his attention when he's walking on a 'mission'. He will take it, attempt to chew then spit it out The only thing that keeps his focus is chunkers or 4legs but i find them to be greasy and messy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumbeat Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I tried every food or treat going and nothing worked so decided to use a ball instead. Now I can take her to an area with other dogs and she would rather play ball with me than play with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Attention grabbing treats: Small pieces of raw roo meat soaked in sardine oil (chicken works ok too). Cooked, warm roo or chicken sausages. Cook in the microwave and then thinly slice. Chicken chunkers (warmed up). But to make a treat truely high value oyou need to work on the delivery. Make it exciting, have the dog chase it, throw your hands up and cheer when you release, keep the dog engaged. Even the most high value treat becomes pretty boring when you are standing there shovelling it into the dogs mouth and this is where you lose focus and they start to check out completely Another thing that may help to make the treats more valuable is to cut down on meals and feed that portion through training. ie, if you usually feed twice per day then cut out brekkie and instead feed the equivalent amount during training sessions (over the day) with a proper meal at the end of the day. Or you can just cut meals size in half. Either way make sure your dog is hungry when you train him! I also found with my own dog that if I chopped and changed between treats he'd simply pick and choose. So now we stick to one special treat only (4Legs chicken and pasta) that only comes out during training time. It's not the highest value treat to him taste wise but he associates it with training and fun - and time to work, which ups the value immensely. Occasionally I'll swap it for chicken chunkers (if I can't get 4Legs), he'll take the first one, munch away and then give me a funny look as if to say "no that's not it". Takes a few reps to convince him that it is Personally I like the 4Legs as it's pretty well balanced so no problem if it's 1/3 - 1/2 his food intake for the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Rules Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I use BBQ chicken, cat biscuits and the one that all dogs go mad over ....... Ziwipeak (semi dried food) - I was the most popular person at the park and would have 6 or 8 dogs at my feet all the time! I buy the 1kg bag of Ziwipeak Dog or cat food (fishy variety) and use it as treats because it's too expensive to use their treats as treats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Add high value scent to low value stuff. If there's stuff that she's goes crazy for, BBQ chook or fish or goat's cheese or something equally greasy or messy, then put the greasy messy treat in a plastic zip lock bag or airtight container with a hard crunchy treat that is absorbent (like uncoated cat kibble or croutons). Don't need to mix or mash or anything, just a thin layer of the hard crunchy over a substantial amount of the messy yummy stuff. After an hour or so at room temperature, pick out the crunchy bits and bag them up separately for high-value treats, they should smell like the messy treats by that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hi Rileys Mum My dog would not take any treat on the footpath out the front of my house - too busy freaking out. And there were plenty of other times when no treat would get her attention. Like you said - better things to do/sniff. This seems to be especially common with the farm dog types and the hounds that often have something better to do than eat. Of course you may be feeding your dog a bit too much. Mine is much much more attentive at the moment because she's on a diet. I've cut her food back about 10%. Still can't feel her ribs easily. But she's much more interested in food. So SG would recommend a halti or gentle leader - to get control of his head so he can't sniff unless you give permission. And she would also recommend a strict NILIF (Nothing in Life Is Free) program, ie dog doesn't get off lead outside the house until he can show some self control. And you hand feed his whole meal every night... she outlines it in "ruff love". Meantime - I think you are experiencing lack of "generalisation" for training. And I find the smarter the dog, the more this applies... Each new environment has a whole new set of rules, and you have to train all the basics from scratch as if your dog doesn't know anything. So it's good once the dog has it all under control in the house, to go again on the verandah or in the garage, then the backyard, then the front yard, then a friend's place. Nothing more embarrasing than the dog that is perfectly house trained at your place and hasn't learned the same rules apply at Mum's place. Oops. Then you train again - the basics, at the park, at the beach, at the other park... without dogs (or far away) and then close to dogs... and if a horse should show up - you have to start again. Or an old lady who has an umbrella up and walks funny. And the jogger who hisses as he runs. Sheesh - the dog thinks - nope - rules I knew before don't apply now, chase jogger when previously ignored a whole football team of joggers - cos she's had practice with the football teams. Sigh. The one that sounds like an excited possum - must be hiding a possum down his shirt or something... So, for my evil hound - sometimes the treat is just not going to do it. But sometimes the new squeaky toy will. Eg the ones with a bit of rabbit fur, or look like a big rat... http://search.vetproductsdirect.com.au/vet/Skinneeez My dog went crabbing at the beach today. But she did trade for small bits of ham. However eventually I had to put the ex blue swimmer in a dog poo bag and the bin because she was going to eat all of it if I didn't want it. Blech. We have practiced/trained a lot at the beach and so she has a basic understanding of the rules there. Ie if we see a toddler - she's going on lead, but it's ok because when we're past the toddler - she can go off lead again. Getting her on lead at the beach used to involve sprinting up and down stairs (narrow space where she's easy to catch) or getting other people to help. So we've come a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar (AmBull) Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Have you tried Happy Paws Training Treats? My lot LOVE them! I have the exact same problem with my dog and being extremely distracted outside the house, to the point where he won't take a treat. Have just ordered the Sample Pack of the Happy Paws Training Treats, thanks for the recommendation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozjen Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think variety is the key, I found I got the best attention from my girl when she was younger is she never knew which treat she would get rewarded with, this included a few tiny ones that one might not normally give their dog, but that the dog thought was really special. So I would recomend a mixed treatbag or various level rewards, and don't be afraid to add something out of the norm as long as its safe for dogs. I have even included tiny pieces of sweet, like those yellow bananna sweets sliced into thin slivers and also frozen baby octopus, peices of apple, cereal etc. I also make alot of homemade dog treats with lots of variety, taste wise. The way I figure it the more variety I have the more interested the dog is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rileys mum Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Thanks for all the fantastic ideas and advice. Im going to try a few different ideas and see how i go. Thanks MRB too. Your spot on with what you said and its definatley given me something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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