Diva Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) My first thought was Akita due to the colouring on the face. Really? There is nothing in the colouring on its face that is unique to the Akita breed. Edited February 9, 2011 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugUrPup Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 *shrugs* I'm not an Akita expert LOL http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=htt...440&bih=724 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugUrPup Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Wow.. cool blog LOL I don't know the owner of the blog, I just Googled Akita's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Sure, Akitas have black masks and white markings. But so do more breeds than you can poke a stick at. I think the shelter he came from didn't give much info on his breed because he isn't a breed, not even a first cross. Really nice to see a shelter being accurate and not just making something up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Sometimes it's just a bit of harmless fun to guess what breeds might be in the mix even if you're never going to get a definitive answer. It's not fun, or harmless. It perpetuates fallacies about breeding. It encourages people not to discover more about how genetics works but to try to identify parentage by appearance alone. To understand genetics, of breeds and breeding, we need a knowledge of phenotype and genotype. Perhaps those who have come in here to give their opinion that this dog could contain specific breeds could share with us their knowledge of this to explain how they came to their conclusion. Let us know how their guess was educated. Otherwise it seems they are just talking rubbish to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Sometimes it's just a bit of harmless fun to guess what breeds might be in the mix even if you're never going to get a definitive answer. :rolleyes: I think it's fun as long as people remember its just guessing. I've seen a few of crossbred owners who are emphatic that their dogs do X because they're part Y breed when they can't be certain of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Pounds and shelters are notoriously bad at guessing breed mixes anyway. How many times do you see Mastiff cross on a pound listing? It seems anything big with a boofhead is a mastiff cross. I wonder if they'd even know what a purebred mastiff looks like? They are an uncommon breed and would hardly be responsible for all those big boofy mutts in pounds. I once saw a little white dog listed as a Coton Du Tulear cross. Must have been imported semen that created that dog. Edited February 9, 2011 by GayleK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) It's not fun, or harmless. It perpetuates fallacies about breeding. It encourages people not to discover more about how genetics works but to try to identify parentage by appearance alone.To understand genetics, of breeds and breeding, we need a knowledge of phenotype and genotype. Perhaps those who have come in here to give their opinion that this dog could contain specific breeds could share with us their knowledge of this to explain how they came to their conclusion. Let us know how their guess was educated. Otherwise it seems they are just talking rubbish to me. I will agree with you most emphatically that the pass-time is clearly not fun or harmless for you. I don't think that you can speak for the rest of us, though. I haven't guessed about the dog in question's parentage, but I still don't see the problem with anyone else people speculating. We all know that even a DNA test will not give us a definitive response on parentage. If we followed your rationale consistently, then no one would should be debating/speculating on a topic unless they are an expert in the area for fear of further disseminating misinformation and misunderstanding - none of us could debate or discuss politics unless we were political scientists, none of us could debate or discuss religion unless we were theologians and none of us could talk about trees and shrubs unless we were an ... arborist ... or whatever you call those tree expert people. No one could post or comment on something unless he/she had an unassailable volume of evidentiary arguments to substantiate each claim ... The Internet would die - as would most conversation in our society ... It would be different if someone was holding himself or herself out as an expert and positing with absolute certainty about the breeds that comprised the dog in question. You're clearly very knowledgeable in this area and have a lot of information to share with the rest of us. I think most of us very much welcome the opportunity to have you tell us more about the topic so that we can learn more - but shutting down the discourse and barring it to the non-knowledgeable hardly facilitates further learning ... Sometimes people remember and learn more from reading a fun and interesting post than if there was a post called: "A Discourse on Phenotypes and Genotypes for the Uninitiated". After people's interests are piqued by a more light-hearted thread, many probably would go and read said Ponderous Discourse ... I think it's fun as long as people remember its just guessing. I've seen a few of crossbred owners who are emphatic that their dogs do X because they're part Y breed when they can't be certain of that. I would hope most people know it's just guessing. My crossbreed is Kelpie x Border Collie x Cheeky Monster and I have no illusions about what behaviours arise from what breed :rolleyes: Then again, Hoover the purebreed is also part cheeky monster Edited February 10, 2011 by koalathebear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) I once saw a little white dog listed as a Coton Du Tulear cross. Must have beenimported semen that created that dog. :rolleyes: While the guessing is mostly done in fun it is not without its risks. I'm not at all sure most people do take it as just as a guess even when those guessing haven't any experience in the breeds nominated. At worst, shelters that 'guess' breeds can lead to mistmatched homes. I remember a thread where someone seeking to place a dog wanted to know it's breed and the guesses were equally divided between a Golden Retriever cross and a Maremma cross. It may not, of course, have been either but imagine adopting a dog you've been assured is a gun dog type and finding unanticipated and misunderstood livestock guardian behaviours instead - that could end badly for the family and the dog. Not fair on the pure breeds either to have their name, and therefore their reputation, attached to a dog that may not have a trace of their heritage. it misrepresents the breeds. And in times of pressure on pure breeding and bsl, that's a risk the breeds can do without. The guesses also usually imply that a dog is a first cross of x or y. With the exception of the 'designer' crosses and a few highly popular byb breeds I don't think that is the case at all for most cross-bred dogs and it makes the breeding of pure bred dogs, often quite rare in reality pure breeds at that if you believe the guesses, look directly causal of the cross-bred over supply. Again, just not fair. And finally, as someone else said earlier, it demeans breeding to a colour or coat type, as if there is no more to distinguish pure breeds than fairly basic elements of appearance. That isn't so for my breeds, and I expect it isn't so for most. But it would make the breeds much less precious if that were all there was to it. Just MHO ;) Edited February 10, 2011 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatzelwurm Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 It is a mongrel. If you want to know what breed your dog is, buy a purebred. Then you will know. You will never know what this dog, or any other mongrel is. I think that everyone here knows this - especially on this forum of all places. Hardly worthy of éclat ... Sometimes it's just a bit of harmless fun to guess what breeds might be in the mix even if you're never going to get a definitive answer. Besides, even with a purebreed, for many of them you'll never know for sure exactly what breeds went into the original genetic cocktail, way, way back when ... Even the Poodle which has been around for many, many centuries is said to have its history and origin "shrouded in antiquity and hypothesis" ... In any case, it's not the OP who acquired the mongrel ... and it's natural human curiosity to want to know of what Bits are in a Bitsa ... I have no issues with people owning mongrels, but I fail to understand why they would ask what breeds are in them when it is plainly impossible to tell. Probably both parents were a mix of many or several breeds. It seems like a pointless exercise. And there will never be an answer. Even DNA testing will not prove anything. Why not have the dog, accept it is a medium sized short haired dog, and be happy with that? Why spend time wondering what it is? Purebred dogs were evolved long ago, and if we are sufficiently educated, we are able to deduce what they are by looking at them, because each one is similar to others of the breed. Evolution was so long ago that there is now no question about what the dog is. koalathebear no-one will ever be an "expert" on the subject of the ancestry of mongrel dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) I realise that there are risks associated mischaracterising dog breeds at the pound or in a rescue context - but this is an internet forum where people (at least in this thread) are just chatting. This thread is about as dangerous, weighty (and opinion-shaping) as the "do you walk your dogs in the rain?", the "do you let your dogs sleep in your bed", the "do you think your dog can understand your emotions?", "is it ok to call my dog froufrou?" and the "would you break up with your OH if he didn't like your dogs?" threads ... I've frequently seen these breed ID threads where people joke that the dog is clearly "part teddy bear" - is that also dangerously misleading? I have no issues with people owning mongrels, but I fail to understand why they would ask what breeds are in them when it is plainly impossible to tell. Probably both parents were a mix of many or several breeds. It seems like a pointless exercise. And there will never be an answer. Even DNA testing will not prove anything.Why not have the dog, accept it is a medium sized short haired dog, and be happy with that? Why spend time wondering what it is? Purebred dogs were evolved long ago, and if we are sufficiently educated, we are able to deduce what they are by looking at them, because each one is similar to others of the breed. Evolution was so long ago that there is now no question about what the dog is. koalathebear no-one will ever be an "expert" on the subject of the ancestry of mongrel dogs. If someone already has the dog, or as is the case here, someone's friend or relative already has the dog and someone is curious, what's wrong with speculating about what it is? In terms of why one would ask a question when it is plainly impossible to know the answer - why not? People frequently ask if there is a God, are there aliens, is there a giant Teapot in the sky when there is no way to confirm such things at least in this life time. It's just talk and chatter ... As to the line about being expert on the ancestry of mongrel dogs, I'm not sure I was at any time claiming that anyone would ever be an expert ...? Edited February 10, 2011 by koalathebear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 mongrels, but I fail to understand why they would ask what breeds are in them when it is plainly impossible to tell. Because they don't understand that it is impossible to tell. Once they have been told though, I fail to understand why people keep guessing. Koala, it doesn't matter what breeds or types of dogs were crossed to get the first poodle. The dogs used may not even have a recorded lineage, they may not have been proper breeds at all. What created the poodle was the selection of breeding stock for performance, and the culling of dogs that did not have the required poodly traits that they needed to perform well. Crossing breeds doesn't create purebreed dogs, many generations of performance and selection does. You might be best sticking to the chatty topics if you are not really intersted in hearing the truth about breeds or lineage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 You might be best sticking to the chatty topics if you are not really intersted in hearing the truth about breeds or lineage. Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll keep browsing and reading threads that are of interest to me but I do appreciate your kindness and consideration in thinking of me and making the recommendation - it's very thoughtful of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 You might be best sticking to the chatty topics if you are not really intersted in hearing the truth about breeds or lineage. Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll keep browsing and reading threads that are of interest to me but I do appreciate your kindness and consideration in thinking of me and making the recommendation - it's very thoughtful of you. It's not in consideration of you, its in consideration of myself and other people that are criticised in these type of threads for ruining your 'fun'. But for your consideration, Diva has posted a good explanation on reasons why attempting to put breed labels on cross-breed dogs is not a good idea, even if you don't know or care about genetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatzelwurm Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I cannot understand this in any way. The people already have the dog, so the "breeding" is umimportant. I don't understand why others are "guessing" the breed. I considered it pointless, not dangerous, but having read some of the information here, I agree that it is potentially dangerous, and may lead to false expectations. No mongrel dog can be expected to have any genetic behaviours, although he may well have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) It's not in consideration of you, its in consideration of myself and other people that are criticised in these type of threads for ruining your 'fun'. But for your consideration, Diva has posted a good explanation on reasons why attempting to put breed labels on cross-breed dogs is not a good idea, even if you don't know or care about genetics. Diva did indeed make a very good post and as is customary for her, was very articulate and polite in the way she did it. Thank you for the clarification and also for taking the time to refer me to her post. As mentioned before, I'm sure that many people (myself included) are very grateful for you for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience with us. The style of delivery might be a little caustic but the content is certainly there so I am sorry that you feel aggrieved. Have a great evening! Edited February 10, 2011 by koalathebear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curlybert Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I cannot understand this in any way. The people already have the dog, so the "breeding" is umimportant. I don't understand why others are "guessing" the breed. I considered it pointless, not dangerous, but having read some of the information here, I agree that it is potentially dangerous, and may lead to false expectations. No mongrel dog can be expected to have any genetic behaviours, although he may well have. They are guessing the breed because, as Koala says, they are having a bit of harmless fun. Nothing sinister or dangerous in that. No one who has responded on this thread has speculated about breed characteristics inherent in this dog. And the OP said her relatives would be ensuring the dog received appropriate training. I think people who don't take themselves too seriously can agree that this little pooch is a Cattle X Corgi X Akita X Kelpie X Basenji X Shibu X BorderCollie, although Akita might be stretching it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I don't know nor care what breeds are in my big, black mutt. HOWEVER... every time we see a new person on the street we get asked what breed he is. It sure would be nice to know, just so that I have an answer to the question I have my own ideas about what breeds he has in him but it is interesting to hear other people's musings. I don't believe I've ever asked for people's opinions about his lineage on this forum and this thread is a good example why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I don't know nor care what breeds are in my big, black mutt. HOWEVER... every time we see a new person on the street we get asked what breed he is. It sure would be nice to know, just so that I have an answer to the question :DI have my own ideas about what breeds he has in him but it is interesting to hear other people's musings. I don't believe I've ever asked for people's opinions about his lineage on this forum and this thread is a good example why You do have an answer for their question. You don't know or care. Why not just be satisfied with telling people the truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) A smidgin of Basenji perhaps? Funny but Basenji jumped into my head too as I saw a bit of Native dog/dingo type in him???? He looks a "camp dog" type, cattle dog/Kelpie mixes. E.T.A. After reading through the rest of this thread I'm wondering whether I should add a "disclaimer"! :D Edited February 11, 2011 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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