What Is The Smartest/most Intelligent (not Most Trainable/obedient) Br

[corvus]

I think wild animals are much better at problem solving than domestic animals as a rule. My hare is nowhere near as smart as my dogs, but he has shocked me a couple of times. One time he had a Lassie moment communicating to me through much pantomime that his water bottle was not working. He had to go through a few steps to get my attention and draw it to the problem and it took some novel behaviour. My domestic animals don't think of trying to tell me about a problem they have. They just give up on it, or make general noises or signals of discontent.

But this actually sounds more intelligent- they expend the least effort in order to get what they want.

Why bother solving something yourself when you can get someone else to do it for you?

Very manipulative if you ask me.

It's no good expending minimal energy if you then die of thirst as a result! My rabbit had the same problem with her bottle at the same time. There was no indication from her that there was a problem at all. She was just going to go thirsty. And she would have for some time if the hare hadn't brought my attention to his water problem, thus leading me to check hers. The same thing happened while we were on holidays and the rabbit's water bottle broke. The pet sitter replaced it with a new one, but it didn't work. Two days later we get home to find a parched bunny. The only indication was she paid more attention to me reaching towards the water bottle than usual.

Dogs are well known for giving up on a problem and looking for a human to solve it for them. I think that this is not as intelligent as it sounds. It's a generalised kind of response. If they could solve it themselves they would, as evidenced by several studies where breeds like Beagles or Basenjis solved the problem while more dependent breeds appealed to the human. Relying on a human is dicey. Some are better at divining a problem than others. If I were an animal I'd rather solve it myself. At least then I know I am actually going to get what I'm after. Case in point, today I dropped a treat on the deck and it fell through the cracks. Later on, Erik located it through smell from above, then nonchalantly hopped off the deck, went underneath, rummaged around for a bit, then came back out licking his lips and munching. I assume he found the treat. He could have looked at me and whined about it, but it's unlikely it would have got him anywhere. I will point out treats he hasn't found yet for him, but I'm not about to crawl under the deck looking for one, or give him a fresh one just because he can smell one. I think that the fact dogs will happily solve a simple problem without seeking human intervention indicates that when they do seek human intervention it is because they are finding the problem hard rather than that they are conserving energy.

[Sheridan]

There was no way, despite the hunger (for he didn't eat his dinner) that he was going to get into his crate to eat the treats I placed there. Call it stubbornness, but it's a level of self-control and will power that a lot of food driven dogs wouldn't display.

This falls into the environment category. He's somewhat conditioned not to be food driven & to avoid getting into his crate. The more stubborn the dog, the more potential of intelligence it has - it's the smart ones that push boundaries

He's conditioned himself then. Nothing to do with me or his previous owner (his breeder). He's a cunning little bugger.

[jacqui835]

I am replying directly to the posts above, but not quoting them as it would take up a lot of space.

That's an interesting point - that doing less is potentially not an attempt to reduce the energy used to solve a problem, but rather a generalised solution. I think though that there's another factor to consider, and that's the animal's degree of self awareness and understanding of their capabilities and the world around them. For example, if my dog has a problem like his water bowl is empty or he deems it insufficiently juicy, he seeks out other sources, such as the highly desirable toilet. This is a problem that he knows he can resolve himself easily and so there is no need to get me involved. Plus, I don't like him drinking out of the toilet, so there's a good chance he'll miss out if I find out he's doing it.

However, faced with a problem like a rabbit being in the front yard and him being unable to open the front door, rather than sit and scratch at it in an exercise of futility (and besides he knows scratching furniture is naughty), he comes and gets a person to open it for him.

There are other occasions when he seems to have his own ideas about a situation, but checks with me anyway because, I guess we're a team and I'm the leader and he might need my back up. For example, a stranger calling him by name (they always ask his name and then start trying to call him over). If he were alone, he might respond differently, but he typically seems to take my presence into consideration.

I've realised though that perhaps I need to rephrase my question. A lot of people are saying that some dogs are amazing at particular tasks - herding, hunting, scenting etc and so it's very hard to determine intelligence. To me this is a bit like soccer players being super good at soccer, but not necessarily having any transferable skills and so although it's arguable, and some people claim that they're geniuses, I would not agree.

Which breeds are more adaptable and more in tune with people? (this could be breeds that typically understand human emotions better-comfort when crying, automatically bring slippers at night etc) Whether obedient or not, which dogs can learn to do more things and apply more information across a variety of settings?

So far I'm guessing ACD's, Border Collies and maybe GSD's would be up there.

[ozjen]

I am replying directly to the posts above, but not quoting them as it would take up a lot of space.

That's an interesting point - that doing less is potentially not an attempt to reduce the energy used to solve a problem, but rather a generalised solution. I think though that there's another factor to consider, and that's the animal's degree of self awareness and understanding of their capabilities and the world around them. For example, if my dog has a problem like his water bowl is empty or he deems it insufficiently juicy, he seeks out other sources, such as the highly desirable toilet. This is a problem that he knows he can resolve himself easily and so there is no need to get me involved. Plus, I don't like him drinking out of the toilet, so there's a good chance he'll miss out if I find out he's doing it.

However, faced with a problem like a rabbit being in the front yard and him being unable to open the front door, rather than sit and scratch at it in an exercise of futility (and besides he knows scratching furniture is naughty), he comes and gets a person to open it for him.

There are other occasions when he seems to have his own ideas about a situation, but checks with me anyway because, I guess we're a team and I'm the leader and he might need my back up. For example, a stranger calling him by name (they always ask his name and then start trying to call him over). If he were alone, he might respond differently, but he typically seems to take my presence into consideration.

I've realised though that perhaps I need to rephrase my question. A lot of people are saying that some dogs are amazing at particular tasks - herding, hunting, scenting etc and so it's very hard to determine intelligence. To me this is a bit like soccer players being super good at soccer, but not necessarily having any transferable skills and so although it's arguable, and some people claim that they're geniuses, I would not agree.

Which breeds are more adaptable and more in tune with people? (this could be breeds that typically understand human emotions better-comfort when crying, automatically bring slippers at night etc) Whether obedient or not, which dogs can learn to do more things and apply more information across a variety of settings?

So far I'm guessing ACD's, Border Collies and maybe GSD's would be up there.

Australian Sheperds would be there too, because they are not necessarily as common as some of the other breeds they may not feature on a list of the smartest dogs but I would say they would be in the top couple of dogs.

[ozjen]

Benson is my smart one.....sneaky smart, extremely clever and I gave up doing obedience with him because of it. He astounds me with his problem solving and the thought process that must go into his antics.

Dusty, on the other hand, doesn't have half the brains Benson does so she's the better obedience prospect.

Know what you mean there GayleK, always though Benson sounded very much like my Jenna, way too smart.