jacqui835 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Over the weekend, I met a very clever dog. It helped its owner out in many ways, automatically carried any bags he put down, brought him shoes when he was looking for them and according to the owner, he can bring him many other kinds of things too, like beer and the tv remote etc. The most amazing part? He never set out to teach his dog to do this, it just started doing it, and he barely gives it any praise for it. It was a blue heeler/cattle dog I'm not sure what the correct name is but I think everyone will know what I mean. But despite seeming to understand much of what his owner said, and showing great initiative, this breed does not feature highly on the most trainable (or as it's sometimes referred to, the smartest) dogs lists. So it got me thinking, what do you guys think would actually be the most intelligent breed of dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I don't trust 'lists' ... every dog is individual ... I think all dogs are as intelligent as they need to be to live life as a dog Sighthounds have a way of relating to the world which may differ from that of a scenthound ..and a retriever may well see things differently to a terrier - but they all have what dogs need to survive Judging a dog's intelligence by what they appear to do in the human realm ? Not sure.... That heeler sounds as though he has found a job which he enjoys and gets rewarded by - good for him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I believe that the intelligence factor is difficult to measure, because there are intelligence on different levels... Some breeds have intelligence in the way of tricks and biddible, "trainable" behaviours... Other breeds intelligence stems from being able to work independently to achieve what their master wants. These independent breeds are often labelled differently because their intelligence makes them less "trainable"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dxenion Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I've seen very trainable German Shepherds that are so good you wonder if they've been computer programmed, and then I've met ones where you wonder if the lights are on! Even though Poodles, Border Collies and German Shepherds usually feature high on the 'smartest dog' lists, you'd need to asses the individual dog to determine trainability. Environmental factors can also effect obedience and trainability. Smartness, intelligence, trainability and obedience should be considered as 4 different categories. A JRT is extremely smart when working as a ratter, heelers have to have their wits about them when dealing with grumpy cattle, the list of things a Guide Dog (usually a lab or goldie) must master to work alone in the community with a human's life in its paws is incredible. Yet how would the Guide Dog go rounding up cattle? Horses for courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollie10 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Depends on the individual dog. Anouk is so sharp it's amazing. Ziggy, while more obedient, is a little simple. You can't really judge a dog's intellegence without really knowing a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dju Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Intelligence_of_Dogs Interesting article, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Years ago my feral neighbour got a blue heeler pup from somewhere, pub I suspect. It ran riot & kept getting out so he tied it up. 6 months old & no training at all I felt sorry for it so asked if I could take it out & train for an hour a day. Not a cruel man to it as such, just stupid. He said yes. I had never had anything to do with working type breeds. This dog didn't even know its name. It made my poodles look like idiots. In 5 days he was walking on the lead, sit, stay, down, staying there off the lead & instant recall. It blew my mind. This feral/neglected/wild dog was so focused on my face & eager to please. Don't know if the breed are all like this. I got him off the guy not long after & found him a good home. Poodles are intelligent & easy to train but they are very silly puppies & it does take a few months maturity for it all to sink in. I find they are responsive & tend to just get it all at about 6 months old. The toys, not sure about the other sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozjen Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Over the weekend, I met a very clever dog. It helped its owner out in many ways, automatically carried any bags he put down, brought him shoes when he was looking for them and according to the owner, he can bring him many other kinds of things too, like beer and the tv remote etc. The most amazing part? He never set out to teach his dog to do this, it just started doing it, and he barely gives it any praise for it. It was a blue heeler/cattle dog I'm not sure what the correct name is but I think everyone will know what I mean. But despite seeming to understand much of what his owner said, and showing great initiative, this breed does not feature highly on the most trainable (or as it's sometimes referred to, the smartest) dogs lists.So it got me thinking, what do you guys think would actually be the most intelligent breed of dog? I think most dogs are pretty smart the difference comes more in how willing they are to express it in a way that suits us. For example I have an Australian Sheperd, very smart, learns quickly, easily translates what I want from her but is also smart enough to know where my weaknesses are, what she can get away with and gets bored quickly with to much repetition. Has been known to outsmart me on several occassions, thinks for herself in order to get rewarded with minimum effort and seems to understand most of what I say to her. I have a Papillon pup, again very smart, learns quickly, keen to please regardless of how many times I ask for a behaviour or wether there is a reward and follows routine behaviours well. On comparing the two I consider the Australian Sheperd the smarter one as she does not follow blindly, she has to see a reason behind everything she does and makes a choise wether to do it. She has also shown initiative to get what she wants as in reaching things well out of her reach, or in moving items to suit her needs. This breed is also well known in America as a herding dog because of its ability to think for itself where needed. I think there is a big difference between an obedient well trained dog and a smart dog and I don't think they always go together, whereas alot of these tests are based on how obedient and well trained a dog is. Personally I think the escape artist that gets out of its backyard no matter what, or the dogs that drive there owners nuts by getting into all sorts of mischief often shows as much brains as the highest trained dog in the performance ring its just we don't always percieve it that way. Nothing against performance dogs (mine included) just the difference in how each dog expresses how smart it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Sometimes i think the smartest dogs are those that do the least and can get away with doing nothing themselves, but getting their owner to do everything for them! Within a breed I think there are always particularly smart dogs and also those that are average or not so bright. In terms of being trainable, herding breeds and gundogs are generally at the top of most lists. The australian cattle dog, is well known to be both intelligent and trainable, as long as you know what you're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 While Border Collies always come out as the top breed on any list , most of those lists come out of the US and Europe where Australian Cattle Dogs are a rare breed. There are many ACDs as well as some Kelpies that rival Border Collies for high intelligence, they are just not usually included in the studies. These breeds are all highly intelligent (to varying degrees) and should have a very strong will to please their owner, making training easier. Poodles usually come in second but there are individual dogs of some other breeds like JRTs that are also extremely smart. Trainability is different to straight out intelligence. The more common service breeds like GSDs, Goldies, Labs, etc are all highly trainable and often more reliable once trained because they don't think up as many variations to what they are supposed to be doing as BCs and Poodles tend to do if they get bored. Some other breeds are actually quite smart but with no desire to please anyone other than themselves, they come across as difficult to train and get labelled as dumb. Even in breeds that are generally considered pretty thick, there will be soem that are smarter than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I have often said train a BC not to eat random food and it will die of starvation in a home situation, train a malamute not to eat random food and it will comply for a bit...then it is a free for all, survival and independence is the real key to dog intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I think a lot of the breeds who are at the top of the list are there because they don't have an independent streak a mile wide. My two are very intelligent but they're stubborn and independent as terriers should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I think my Finnish Lapphund is intelligent. She will do a recall from across a field but if she is a meter away she will just look you up and down and ask why...... She is the only one to get through a very poorly built baby gate (kelpies will howl and cry and smash at it, while she just pops through a hole in it). She also stops and thinks about what you are training her to do. Often it can be frustrating as she wont do anything, but rarely does she ever get anything wrong once she has begun a movement. She is very independent, especially compared to the kelpies, and drives me insane sometimes trying to train her- but she is defiantly aware of what is going on!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I would be betting on hunting dogs. They tend to be very good at problem solving. My Vallhund is crazy smart, but a Greyhound gave him a run for his money in my auto-shaping operative task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) In terms of being trainable, herding breeds and gundogs are generally at the top of most lists. The australian cattle dog, is well known to be both intelligent and trainable, as long as you know what you're doing. Couldn't agree more. We've owned border collies & shelties, and family members own ACDs. But the most independently smart dogs I've owned are the tibbies. They're good at weighing up situations, but they keep their responses firmly their own. 'The point of this is...?' They're capable of doing very sensible things, off their own bat. I found I trained the herding breeds, but I have to convince the tibbies. But they often have to convince me....like, a stranger has come thro' the gate, there's a burglar sneaking across the back deck, a lost toddler is on the road outside... But once a tibbie has 'agreed' to learn something, it never forgets & doesn't have to be reminded. Like, I teach the tibs to 'Sit' to get pats. Penny drops, 'Bottom on ground gets a pat'. So I'll be walking up the hallway & a passing tibbie's bottom will hit the ground with a thud. Face up, expectantly, 'Right, pat comes next!' Who needs the word 'Sit'? Try to train a tibbie not to eat random food & it'll say 'Your point, if you have one, being...?' Edited February 7, 2011 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chran Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The whole smart breed thing is just a myth. A dog's intelligence factor is genetic first, environment second. It's very hard to scientifically measure as dogs are master observers and often skew the results as the test is repeated. Personally, what I'd call an intelligent dog is a dog that thinks abstract ie. if there's a dog on TV the real dog looks & sniffs behind the TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 There is a border collie that can look at a photograph of an object and then retrieve the actual object and can also look at a small replica of an object and then go and retrieve the actual real size thing.... scary smart to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I nearly laughed when I saw Labs in the top 10 of that list, obviously mine is broken, he's as dumb as a box of hammers. He is slow to train, slow to pick up new tricks, slow at performing them and I have to tell him over and over again. I will say this for him though, once he gets it the knowledge stays there. The Samoyeds however pick up new tricks very quickly, they are able to solve problems much faster then the Lab and are faster at understanding what I am getting at. I think what makes many people think they are stupid is that they are very independant and will question you from time to time, the way I see it is they seem to think 'why does this idiot keep telling me to do this? I already know how too, so why should I bother?' Not dumb, just willful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) I met an extremely fat dog, lab x something short (maybe spaniel) at the park on Saturday. Owner wasn't exactly skinny either but not as fat as her dog. I was talking to a guy with a cute kelpie about dog training and showing off what my dog could do (basic stuff in distracting environment). Lady said something along the lines of she wished she could train her dog... or that he was untrainable - he'd already schmoozed me into giving him pats and scratches... and I was trading that for "sit"... Anyway she said he didn't like food. And me and kelpie guy just looked at each other, stunned. What can you say to a person that dumb? That dog, I'd rate as more intelligent than his owner, but not acting in his own best interests (eating too much). My dog - I'd rate as one of the most difficult to train I've ever encountered. She's always got better things to do. But she has been more attentive as I try to get her to a weight more suitable for agility training. Sometime she learns really quickly and other times - argh.... PS she did look behind the TV and the mirror for the other dog, and I also let her sniff the dog photo calendar (and check behind it for the other dogs) before I hang it up - or she barks at it. She has worked out it's me in the mirror. Not sure if she's worked out it's her in the mirror too. Edited February 7, 2011 by Mrs Rusty Bucket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I nearly laughed when I saw Labs in the top 10 of that list, obviously mine is broken, he's as dumb as a box of hammers.He is slow to train, slow to pick up new tricks, slow at performing them and I have to tell him over and over again. I will say this for him though, once he gets it the knowledge stays there. The Samoyeds however pick up new tricks very quickly, they are able to solve problems much faster then the Lab and are faster at understanding what I am getting at. I think what makes many people think they are stupid is that they are very independant and will question you from time to time, the way I see it is they seem to think 'why does this idiot keep telling me to do this? I already know how too, so why should I bother?' Not dumb, just willful Just to defend the labs Mine is very quick to learn, very quick to perform and good at remembering the most random things ever! My aussie (which is a breed well known for being clever) only knew one trick in her whole 13 years (the labs knows over 20 at 10 months old) and was selectively deaf but that was more slackness on my part and perhaps manipulation on her part, so who would you say was smarter??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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