monique.c Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Hey Everyone, I really hope no one flames me for this but I have some friends who are thinking that they have to rehome their 3YO desexed Male SBT called Harley, I don't think he has papers. He is a great dog in most respects, really well trained and obedient, good with kids and most dogs but they are having problems with him and their other older SBT. The older SBT has always been the dominant one or the boss one but the younger one seems to be vying for top position lately and has instigated a few fights with the other dogs which has resulted in costly vet bills. My friends are concerned as they have a 5 month old baby and they really don't want to give up this dog because they love him but they also don't want him to be hurting the other dog or possibly putting the baby at risk. They have talked to a Dog behaviouralist about the issue to try to work it out and they have suggested several things like making sure the older dog always gets fed first to show the other one that the older one is the boss dog, the behaviouralist told my friend that she could come out and do one on one training with them and that it would have to be done with the one person (either my friend or her husband) to be consistent but my friend's husband is in the army and goes away often so wouldn't be able to do so and as my friend has a 5 month old baby it's a bit hard for her too. They really love this dog and they really want to find a good home for him, they have told their vets about it and they are keeping an ear out for people interested but I was wondering if any of you guys had any ideas on what they should do. If they can keep him they really want to as long as it's not putting the other dog or their family in danger (say if they were outside and the dogs started fighting for example). Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 They have the option to keep them seperated or to rehome the dog. If they choose to rehome, they need to make sure that that aren't simply palming the problem onto someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.c Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 They have the option to keep them seperated or to rehome the dog.If they choose to rehome, they need to make sure that that aren't simply palming the problem onto someone else. I don't think keeping them seperated would work where they are as they are just on a regular suburban sized block in Brisbane which wouldn't be able to be split into different areas properly due to the position of the house and while the dogs are inside/outside dogs I don't think they would be able to keep one inside all the time. My friend was told by the behaviouralist that if they decide to rehome him to make sure he goes to a new owner that doesn't already had a dog because although he has been good with dogs in the past (before this issue) they wouldn't want to cause problems in the new home if Harley tried to assert his dominance against an existing dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Is it an actual Behaviourist your friend is seeing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.c Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 Is it an actual Behaviourist your friend is seeing? I assume so, she said that she had called up a behaviourist, I don't think she knows any in a social capacity so I am guessing she got a recommendation from her vet or from a friend. I could find out. Should she maybe call another to get a second opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Should she maybe call another to get a second opinion? just based on what you have posted- I would say it may be a good plan .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keira&Phoenix Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I would recommend either Danielle at Urban Dog Training or Grant Trebone (the paw man) both have a lot of experience with behavioural training and a host of behavioural issues. Hope your friends can solve it and keep both dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Yes the behaviourist she saw has some interesting ideas.... I agree with the others who suggest to seek another opinion. Preferably with someone experienced in dealing with aggressive dogs or a vet behaviourist. only a very irresponosible person would rehome this dog to another home with an existing dog. Imo it is even a risk to rehome it him at all seeing as he has aggression issues, if he were to be rehomed it would have to be with an experienced person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keira&Phoenix Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Dont recommend a vet behaviouralist never heard anything good about them. Both Danielle and Grant are exp with agression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I don't know much about dog behaviours, only what I observe with my own dogs, but I'm always a bit curious when someone gives instructions to make one dog the "top dog". In my house, I'm the top dog and they obey me without question, no matter who gets fed, patted, brushed, attended to first or last. If one starts in on another one, either growling or pushing in, they get a short sharp "That's enough!" and that's the end of it. Not sure if it would work with Staffies, but maybe your friend might like to find a behaviourist who will put HER in charge and not a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I don't know much about dog behaviours, only what I observe with my own dogs, but I'm always a bit curious when someone gives instructions to make one dog the "top dog". In my house, I'm the top dog and they obey me without question, no matter who gets fed, patted, brushed, attended to first or last.If one starts in on another one, either growling or pushing in, they get a short sharp "That's enough!" and that's the end of it. Not sure if it would work with Staffies, but maybe your friend might like to find a behaviourist who will put HER in charge and not a dog. Who's top dog when you're not there Gayle? There will be one. Dogs don't live in a social vacuum when we're not around - there will be a pecking order. I have to say that I fail to see how reinforcing the "top dog" status of an older dog being challenged for the position by a younger one would be helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I don't know much about dog behaviours, only what I observe with my own dogs, but I'm always a bit curious when someone gives instructions to make one dog the "top dog". In my house, I'm the top dog and they obey me without question, no matter who gets fed, patted, brushed, attended to first or last.If one starts in on another one, either growling or pushing in, they get a short sharp "That's enough!" and that's the end of it. Not sure if it would work with Staffies, but maybe your friend might like to find a behaviourist who will put HER in charge and not a dog. Who's top dog when you're not there Gayle? There will be one. Dogs don't live in a social vacuum when we're not around - there will be a pecking order. I have to say that I fail to see how reinforcing the "top dog" status of an older dog being challenged for the position by a younger one would be helping. The top dog here seems to change daily, but like you, I fail to see how putting a dog in charge instead of a person when the person's there, is improving things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Is the dog he lives with another male? Some dogs have a tendency towards same sex aggression and he may be better living with a female. Feeding the older dog first will do nothing, the 'behaviourist' doesn't sound very competent, is he/she from one of the franchises? If he is rehomed make sure that the new owners are fully cognisant of his problems and are experienced enough to deal with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.c Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Is the dog he lives with another male? Some dogs have a tendency towards same sex aggression and he may be better living with a female. Feeding the older dog first will do nothing, the 'behaviourist' doesn't sound very competent, is he/she from one of the franchises?If he is rehomed make sure that the new owners are fully cognisant of his problems and are experienced enough to deal with them. Yes the other dog is a male as well, pretty sure he is an Amstaff, they are both desexed. Just a quick question for those who have responded and don't agree with the behaviourist's advice, why is this? Genuine question, I have no idea about dog training or psychology or anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Is the dog he lives with another male? Some dogs have a tendency towards same sex aggression and he may be better living with a female. Feeding the older dog first will do nothing, the 'behaviourist' doesn't sound very competent, is he/she from one of the franchises?If he is rehomed make sure that the new owners are fully cognisant of his problems and are experienced enough to deal with them. Yes the other dog is a male as well, pretty sure he is an Amstaff, they are both desexed. Just a quick question for those who have responded and don't agree with the behaviourist's advice, why is this? Genuine question, I have no idea about dog training or psychology or anything... It's old-ish advice that we used to give, now we know that dominance hierarchy is quite fluid between dogs and in different situations. Sometimes doing all the feeding and attention first of the 'top' dog can exacerbate the situation and cause more grief. It will also not fix aggression because the actual precursors need to be identified i.e. why the dogs are fighting and who is instigating it, often the one you think it is - actually isn't - it takes two to tango! There are just plain dominant dogs out there but they are quite rare and first and foremost dogs fight over resources, due to maturity or as some people have already mentioned due to same sex issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.c Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 It's old-ish advice that we used to give, now we know that dominance hierarchy is quite fluid between dogs and in different situations. Sometimes doing all the feeding and attention first of the 'top' dog can exacerbate the situation and cause more grief. It will also not fix aggression because the actual precursors need to be identified i.e. why the dogs are fighting and who is instigating it, often the one you think it is - actually isn't - it takes two to tango! There are just plain dominant dogs out there but they are quite rare and first and foremost dogs fight over resources, due to maturity or as some people have already mentioned due to same sex issues. Thanks heaps for clearing that up for me, that makes a lot of sense. I will definitely be passing along the recommendations of behaviourists I have gotten from here to my friend and hopefully they can sort it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swanbrook Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I don't know much about dog behaviours, only what I observe with my own dogs, but I'm always a bit curious when someone gives instructions to make one dog the "top dog". In my house, I'm the top dog and they obey me without question, no matter who gets fed, patted, brushed, attended to first or last.If one starts in on another one, either growling or pushing in, they get a short sharp "That's enough!" and that's the end of it. Not sure if it would work with Staffies, but maybe your friend might like to find a behaviourist who will put HER in charge and not a dog. Yes im with Gaylek on that. I own Bullmastiffs and as lovely as they are sometimes you must lead your dogs. But Gaylek sounds like an experienced owner. Thats why this dog if relocated should be done very carefully to everyone's best interests new owners and disposers. Be hard to sleep otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsrawesome Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) The owner should be the leader not any of the dogs. If the older one thinks he is the leader he could easily turn on the owner if he disagrees with something she does. I agree with Gaylek and Swanbrook 100% Edited February 8, 2011 by Dogperson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I don't know much about dog behaviours, only what I observe with my own dogs, but I'm always a bit curious when someone gives instructions to make one dog the "top dog". Sometimes it might reduce tension. E.g. "top dog" is given access first, which means they are not subjected to any frustration that might have provoked them into starting something. However, if the assigned "top dog" is not the one that typically starts altercations, it seems like it might get worse before it gets better. I guess that in a sense it's conditioning the dogs that they each get their turn and the non-"top dog" gets to learn some self control. As long as the "leader" dog is used to deferring to humans I don't think there is a high likelihood of them turning on their owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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