Should Groomers Be Licensed? Qualified?

[WreckitWhippet]

As for the way people are taught to Schnauzer it makes us cry

It makes me cry too.

Single eye brows, skirts like Westies gone wrong, no blending, beards gone or beards that cover most of the face.

I'm always wanting to learn more and improve how I do them. I make the most of the local breeders and exhibitors and what they can teach.

I speak on a regular basis with another groomer ( different location ) who is seeing them come through her doors, having been groomed in a similar way to what I see. TAFE is the common link there.

[Dogsfevr]

As for the way people are taught to Schnauzer it makes us cry

It makes me cry too.

Single eye brows, skirts like Westies gone wrong, no blending, beards gone or beards that cover most of the face.

I'm always wanting to learn more and improve how I do them. I make the most of the local breeders and exhibitors and what they can teach.

I speak on a regular basis with another groomer ( different location ) who is seeing them come through her doors, having been groomed in a similar way to what I see. TAFE is the common link there.

Here its more like Scotties gone wrong,then add owl eyes & the bridge of the nose trimmed off

The beard is the slowest growing part of a Schnauzer & it takes year to regrow .

Although for me there is no real excuse for bad trimming with so many good books & internet options out there plus of course the groomer simply being honest & saying i don't now how to groom them then butcher them but these same people simply don't have an eye for how they should turn out nor seem to question there tafe teachers as to way they groom them to look like that when all the books/breeders don't.

As a breeder of schnauzers we redo alot of botched jobs & the owners just don't understand how many years it will take to fix.

The other issue i see is owners who say what they want but that isn't what they want.

We always question the owners & some get shitty with us when we do it BUT in the end the people realize what they are asking for isn't what they want .

Many will drop off & say short all over /i want it all off & if not questioned that is what you would get & this is what many do get but blame the previous groomer for the hair cut because they have asked us to do the same but we queried it

[tlc]

My hat goes off to you guys that do professional grooming. People don't realize how much of a job it is.

I think people need to have some sort of qualifications or formal type training if they are going to charge a decent amount to clip a dog.

I love to clip my own as I said in the other thread but am by no means perfect at it. It took a while for me to be happy with the outcome and mine were real guinea pigs for quite a few months till I feel I got it right for me and for them. I am lucky all of mine with the exception of Cooper (he is tetchy with his front feet and it is hard to get them right) are just fantastic with being bathed, clipped, blowdryed etc but I think it is because from 8 weeks of age they were subjected to the dryer, the clipper noise etc etc.

A little off topic, I know with difficult dogs they may need you to be a little more firm with them, but a while ago I was in one of the big chain pet shops that do grooming etc and the way one of the poor dogs was being treated by the groomer was just horrific. They have a big glass window where you can watch the dogs being groomed and the poor dog was being man handled beyond belief.

Just wanted to add in the nearly 3 years Ive been clipping my lot, not one bit of blood shed I am pretty pleased with myself and always extremely cautious as I would be devestated if that happened and also know it would set the dog back if that happened.

Edited February 6, 2011 by tlc

[flux]

What if it was a decent course taught by people with the experience?

Do you think the implications of a mandatory grooming "degree" would perhaps weed out some people who are not "serious"? Who otherwise would simply buy a franchise and start cutting away?

I can see both points. Study is good for theoretical training and stopping backyard folk from doing backyard jobs. But study alone does not provide experience, and it would seem this is an area where a wealth of experience is needed. I would take the "Study" route except I think sadly, experienced people don't tend to be the ones that resign themselves to the class room to teach - or if they do it's very rare. I've studied before (not grooming) and I find it to be very true that the folks who love the books tend to be the teachers, the ones who love to be hands on tend to get out there and either do the work or research. Still though I know of some people who are brilliant teachers because they share their passion with others and they manage to do both the experiencing and teaching, they are just rarer.

Still though, putting a license onto grooming, demanding that there are qualifications could only improve things, leaving it open to everyone can only allow those who have no experience to groom dogs.

[tlc]

I mentioned in the other thread about a guy in my town who just clips of basically down to the skin, he is fully qualified and has been grooming for years but still he just butchers! Get em in and get em out make a quick buck and if an unsuspecting new dog owner comes along not knowing what is the norm he takes advantage and takes the quick option.

Even if people had to be licenced etc still means they could do a shoddy job!

I think the ones that do the best job are the true dog lovers, they want the dog to look good and take pride in thier work.

Edited February 6, 2011 by tlc

[WreckitWhippet]

Who would come to the country and remote towns, to train the groomers and hand out the licence ?

I think the ones that do the best job are the true dog lovers, they want the dog to look good and take pride in thier work.

yep and it's not something handed out at TAFE

[Clyde]

As for the way people are taught to Schnauzer it makes us cry

It makes me cry too.

Single eye brows, skirts like Westies gone wrong, no blending, beards gone or beards that cover most of the face.

My fave is seeing how some clip right down the nose

[Whimsical]

I've lost count of the number of dogs 12 months plus, that owners bring in, demand that they are clipped and think that it's going to be an easy job and the dog is simply going to accept it. I've been bitten, scratched, shat on and given a hard time from start to finish.

Most of them are delightful little dogs, quite friendly while being patted and it's all going their own way. Get the clippers or a brush out and try doing something they don't like and the teeth and claws come up.

I charge extra for those dogs that are hard to groom, have never been groomed, bite and scratch and make sure I tell the owners exactly how they have behaved.

I recommend that everyone who gets a coated breed or cross and intends to have it groomed, brings it to their groomer from 8 weeks on. Even if it's for a simple introduction to the bath, blow dryer and brush.

Thanks for the suggestion re taking at a very early age. It makes sense, even if as you say it is just to introduce to the equipment.

Linda

[JulesP]

I did mobile grooming with no qualifications Pretty much everyone rebooked me so I assume they were happy with the job I did. Got heaps of clients from the local qualified salon. Dogs tend to like me so owners were happy to see their dogs happy to see me.

It wasn't my intention to do a heap of clipping. I thought I would be mainly washing but that wasn't how it turned out. I got a heap of Oster videos and a book. I had been clipping my show horses for years so was quite good with the clippers.

I would have loved to do a course but couldn't find anything I wanted to do.

I was a member of a US grooming forum and got a heap of support on there.

Never really got too many 'breeds' to do. Most were white fluffies that got done in a teddy bear clip.

Another thing that I think was important was the ability to listen to the customer and do what they wanted. Even if I thought it was dumb As in ear length etc.

Any way I think it is a bastard of a job and I am still so traumatized 6 years later that my poor border collies hardly get brushed

[kirst_goldens]

im a groomer and a grooming teacher and i am fully qualified in both...

I think grooming shoudl be an apprenticeship, one day a week or on week a month at tafe and there they should teach them business and admin skills and history and what not about the breeds.

we did some work on nutrition and health issues as well so if a dog presents we can say this appears to be X issues u should see a vet or i would monitor it or i would salt bath etc.. basic info on hotspots and common skin complaints, was good a little too in depth maybe? but still i leant alot and now my customers reap the rewards

[Dogsfevr]

im a groomer and a grooming teacher and i am fully qualified in both...

I think grooming shoudl be an apprenticeship, one day a week or on week a month at tafe and there they should teach them business and admin skills and history and what not about the breeds.

we did some work on nutrition and health issues as well so if a dog presents we can say this appears to be X issues u should see a vet or i would monitor it or i would salt bath etc.. basic info on hotspots and common skin complaints, was good a little too in depth maybe? but still i leant alot and now my customers reap the rewards

I find it odd you say learning shouldn't be about the breeds??So as a teacher what do you actually teach them then??

[becks]

One of the best bits of advise I got when starting out in grooming was to read the breed standards and to go to shows and look at all the breeds and how they are presented. Knowing how a breed should look means that you can then keep the look even when doing a pet trim.

I have seen lots of photos that groomers have displayed, particularly on Facebook where the dogs may look neat and tidy but the actual groom for the breed is way off base. I have had owners come to me who know their dog doesn't look right but as they don't know the breed in depth, can't say why it isn't right but they can see the difference after I have 'fixed' the previous groom.

That said, sometimes the owners don't help! When discussing with a spaniel owner how they wanted their pup to be trimmed, they brought out a breed book and pointed to a picture of an American Cocker in full coat. I had to tell them it wasn't possible as they owned an English Cocker - of course the book they had was american and just called the breed a cocker! lol

[Clyde]

im a groomer and a grooming teacher and i am fully qualified in both...

I think grooming shoudl be an apprenticeship, one day a week or on week a month at tafe and there they should teach them business and admin skills and history and what not about the breeds.

we did some work on nutrition and health issues as well so if a dog presents we can say this appears to be X issues u should see a vet or i would monitor it or i would salt bath etc.. basic info on hotspots and common skin complaints, was good a little too in depth maybe? but still i leant alot and now my customers reap the rewards

I find it odd you say learning shouldn't be about the breeds??So as a teacher what do you actually teach them then??

She's said 'what not' as in the ins and outs, so she does mean people should learn about the breeds.

[JulesP]

One of the best bits of advise I got when starting out in grooming was to read the breed standards and to go to shows and look at all the breeds and how they are presented. Knowing how a breed should look means that you can then keep the look even when doing a pet trim.

I have seen lots of photos that groomers have displayed, particularly on Facebook where the dogs may look neat and tidy but the actual groom for the breed is way off base. I have had owners come to me who know their dog doesn't look right but as they don't know the breed in depth, can't say why it isn't right but they can see the difference after I have 'fixed' the previous groom.

That said, sometimes the owners don't help! When discussing with a spaniel owner how they wanted their pup to be trimmed, they brought out a breed book and pointed to a picture of an American Cocker in full coat. I had to tell them it wasn't possible as they owned an English Cocker - of course the book they had was american and just called the breed a cocker! lol

One of the few people I didn't get back was a schnauzer owner. It had big balls of matting on its legs etc. Even when I showed the owner she still wanted it done in a breed clip. Just wasn't possible with the condition of the dog. I'm sure she would have told the next groomer about the idiot that shaved her dog.

I did have to do a heap of shaving. It was not pleasant.

[shells]

Its a tough one. As someone who was "burnt" by their first grooming experience - the groomer assured me that they knew how to do a poodle clip and my 2 dogs came back in shaved from head to toe with a #10 (they were 14 weeks old at the time and not matted). It would be good to see some kind of standard but as others have pointed out even with human hairdressers you get great ones and butchers too. I guess the main difference is that atleast all hairdressers have some level of training/qualifications - have hopefully been taught the basics on how not to hurt people.

We have a fantastic groomer now (and every now and then I have a go myself and even that is never as bad as that first groom my 2 poor babies had)

[flux]

Edited - someone already mentioned it was "what-not" as in "all that jazz" sorry to repeat!

Edited February 7, 2011 by flux

[frufru]

It is very difficult. I do a much better job than my competitor with the very swish mobile van which has all the mod cons and she did a grooming course with a very reputable company - not sure what she learnt. I on the other hand am basically self taught due to owning and showing standard poodles for about 15 yrs. However, as someone else pointed out - I listen carefully to what people want - I also ask terrier owners if they want a breed clip and point them in the direction of another local groomer who does this beautifully. I specialise in poodle style trims with a lot of hand scissoring. A lot of my customers are crosses who have a "teddy bear trim" and the rest are mostly poodles. All of my clients are regulars and I only take new customers if someone leaves . I am also very keen to improve my knowledge and do this through other groomers, books, the net and poodle exhibitors etc. I have thought about doing one of the reputable grooming courses but they are sooooo expensive and my business is a part time hobby which evolved due to demand.

My experience with hairdressers is that there are a lot who do a very ordinary job and they are all trained

[Danielle]

I'm not saying that untained groomers don't cut it (pardon the pun!). What I mean is that for someone who is running a business (not just a hobby) it would be beneficial to have some form of basic training. You are highly experienced so therefore probably know it all anyway.

I would not send my beloved pooch to someone starting out who is untrained or has no experience. There is so much room for something to go wrong. Wouldn't it be easier on new groomers to have some form of formal training anyways? It's a highly stressful job even when you know what your doing, I can't imagine how hard it must be for new inexperienced ppl starting out.

And for reading books, well that really doesn't show you the ropes all that well. Notes from the grooming table is a book I'd recommend but even it has it's flaws. There is no substitute for having a mentor/teacher and a real live dog to work on.

And yes, there are some shoddy hairdressers out there and dodgy groomers who are certified. But if everyone had to meet a certain criteria or standard would it be beneficial?

[Clyde]

I think a big difference is that most of the not so good groomers don't realise they aren't any good as they don't know any different. Half the time the clients don't know any different so they're happy with the work. Another groomer gave me her client list years ago when she moved. She was a terrible groomer (she told me herself), and the dogs did all look terrible. It was amazing that the owners had no idea, but if the groomer is happy and the owner is happy then no one is none the wiser.

[Christina]

A point of interest maybe.........

I have a mixed breed desexed male with a long "maltese"-like coat which mats very quicky. His first grooming was a disaster. I wasn't there, just dropped him off and picked him up later, he was about a year old. Nothing was said, but since then he was not happy about being brushed, would really stress out.

Ultimately it became time for his next clip. I got a "mobile dog groomer" to come to my home. I went inside so as not to distract him. I could suddenly hear his terrified screaming and then the groomer knocked on the door asking for a bandaid as he had bitten her badly on her thumb.

He was uncontrollable, he vomited and had diahr.... (can't spell it! LOL), and was growling and barking like a dog possessed. I was terrified, I had never seen my dog in such a state, he was normally a lovable but yappy little fella! The groomer said it all started as soon as she turned on the clippers. With me holding him we finally managed to get the rest of the knots out of his fur. She made the decision to come back and try again on another day.

As soon as she came to the gate he took one look at her and started going crazy again. We came to the conclusion his first grooming was not a very pleasant day and the groomer had not told me that she may have had some problems.

Now every time he needs to be clipped, he still refuses to let me brush him and will try to bite me if I come near him with the brush, I have to take him to the vet. He is put to sleep, clipped, nails, thorough check of ears, teeth etc, then woken up. This is all at a great cost, believe me!

My new puppy is a border collie purebred girl, hopefully I can get her used to bathing and brushing before she is too much older and I have no problems with grooming her. At least I don't have to worry about clippers!

Hope I have not bored you with this long post - HOPE IT IS ALLOWED?

Linda

Edited to add: Yes, I do believe some qualifications are necessary! LOL

Untrained dogs can go through hell at the groomers & all the qualifications in the world will not alter this. Poor dog.

Waste of time having qualification really. Some people will do the courses & still be crap & others have a natural knack.

I think training should be on the job. There is no exact right way in some areas. Unless its a breed/show specific style it is up to the owner & groomer & what is possible for styling.

Cross breeds & pet dog styles are variable & some accepted methods of control are not what I would allow on my dogs.

General handling & methods used for the other various aspects of grooming are down to the person who is doing it using some common sense & compassion. That can't be guaranteed by a course.

Courses are good for refined skills of styling & breed specifics.

Passed a course & got a certificate does not mean good.