Should Groomers Be Licensed? Qualified?

[Danielle]

So this is a spin off of another thread. It's got me thinking, should groomers be qualified or licensed?

The reason I ask is that we are working with sharp instruments (blades, shears etc) and a living being, injuries can occur if a groomer is not taught correctly.

A hairdresser has to have qualifications and a certain level of training, so why can just anyone open a store or buy a mobile franchise and call themselves a dog groomer?

I did twelve months at grooming school (cost over a grand) and got my cert. I then went on to work under a highly qualified groomer and breeder who helped me fine tune my skills. I feel that without this few years of training and mentoring I would not have the skills I have today.

It frustrates me to see random people open up a mobile dogwash and incorporate grooming into it, when all they know how to do is switch on a clipper. I see dogs shaved off from the tip of their nose to the tip of their tail, I've seen dogs hacked to bits with chunks missing from their coat and a distraught owner. I've had to fix jobs like this a thousand times.

Do you believe that there should be some sort of licensing or mandatory training in place? In the USA you have to be qualified to groom dogs, I feel it should be the same over here.

[Tralee]

Qualifications and certification won't prevent a bad hair-cut.

Last month I had my hair cut three times.

I use the 'milkshake' criteria.

If you go into a shop for a milkshake and it's not up to scratch then don't go back.

My other criteria is the potato scallop test.

You can tell a good Fish 'n Chip shop by their potato scallops.

[Clyde]

It's a tough one.

No point telling people they have to get experience in a salon first as Ive seen some terrible work done in salons. So who exactly regulates it? Private grooming courses are very expensive. So can only more financial people become groomers? Hardly seems fair. Yet the TAFE course is shite.

Around 15yrs ago I trained in a salon under 'old school' groomers and a qualified Japanese groomer. She studied for four years to be a groomer o/s I then started my own business and down the track did an advanced course with a grooming school to refine my skills with certain breed clips. It was absolutely frightening seeing other groomers there who had their businesses for years yet no clue how to clip or even handle a dog properly.

So I would say I am not qualified. I am certainly not going to go and complete tests or enter comps to become formally qualified. I know I can groom properly and that's enough for me. However I think that if more proper groomers would be prepared to help out newbies then that would be a good head start. I've had girls come and watch to see if it's for them. One poor woman did a dodgy online course and rang so many groomers in her area to see if she could sit in and watch and none would let her. Her skills were so bad yet she was 'qualified'. She chucked it in in the end as she had no repeat business. A shame as she could have been good if correctly trained.

Qualifications and certification won't prevent a bad hair-cut.

I agree.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Clyde

[Clyde]

sorry, double post.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Clyde

[Clyde]

I did twelve months at grooming school (cost over a grand)

Wow, that's a good price! I paid around that for four days.

I've often thought I'd like to teach. My body is packing it in, so it's an income doing something I would enjoy.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Clyde

[Guest DBT]

I'm pretty sure the USA does not have mandatory qualification or licencing.

When i started 25 yrs ago there were no courses . I was just lucky to receive hands on training under experienced & talented groomers/show people.

I do feel it's time to look at some sort of minimum requirements, even if it's just basic handling & hygiene skills. I would also very much like to see grooming facilities inspected under an industry code of practice. Some of the grooming facilities i have visited defy belief. Absolutely disgusting conditions.

[Danielle]

I thoroughly agree that even highly trained groomers can be crap but the point I'm trying to make is "as a whole" training is very beneficial. I would like to see people trained on safety issues, basic styles, etc.

Of course it won't make every single person a fantastic stylist, but I'm sure it would prevent a heck of a lot of injuries and disappointed clients.

And I do agree that some self taught groomers are fantastic, but wouldn't some sort of training be beneficial?

DBT from what I've been told by a groomer friend of mine who lives in the states, licensing is mandatory. Maybe it's just her state but I'm pretty sure she said it's all over the country.

[Guest DBT]

Danielle i'm pretty sure it is not mandatory across the states. Some states maybe, but definitely not all. The licensing they may be talking about is perhaps not so much for their actual grooming skill , but a general business license of some sort.

[HugUrPup]

I think qualifications for breed specific grooming should me mandatory. I don't think you should need a certificate in washing and tidying up a non show dog.

I do think a certificate in handling dogs should be mandatory for any dog job.. like walking, dog sitting, washing etc etc

[WreckitWhippet]

I thoroughly agree that even highly trained groomers can be crap but the point I'm trying to make is "as a whole" training is very beneficial. I would like to see people trained on safety issues, basic styles, etc.

Of course it won't make every single person a fantastic stylist, but I'm sure it would prevent a heck of a lot of injuries and disappointed clients.

And I do agree that some self taught groomers are fantastic, but wouldn't some sort of training be beneficial?

DBT from what I've been told by a groomer friend of mine who lives in the states, licensing is mandatory. Maybe it's just her state but I'm pretty sure she said it's all over the country.

I'm sure I've had disappointed clients, you get those no matter what job you do or how well you do it.

Although I have never badly injured a dog or myself. I've knicked an ear once, just the once mind you and that was on a dog that was one alimghty matted mess and I reckon I did a very good job on that one. The dog needed vet treatment but it was for what was uncovered beneath, not the small cut.

If it were a TAFE cert that was required, it certainly wouldn't make me a more skillfull groomer, given that I fix cock ups, from the TAFE taught. In particular the a number of very disappointed Schnauzer owners, who now have dogs looking somewhat like Westie crosses.

[Crisovar]

I think qualifications for breed specific grooming should me mandatory. I don't think you should need a certificate in washing and tidying up a non show dog.

I do think a certificate in handling dogs should be mandatory for any dog job.. like walking, dog sitting, washing etc etc

Some people simply suck at it regardless of where they learnt or how.

I had a girl that had done a course rock up looking for work and couldn't tell one breed from another, so how the hell would she be able to groom them. Oodles are not a breed yet she firmly believed they all were and that the coats were all distinct.

Bathing a dog may seem like a simple task, so we have dogs with water in their ears, dogs washed in concentrated shampoos and not rinsed, dogs bathed in overly warm water on hot days, some people just do not make the grade.

I think firstly you cannot teach commonsense, and also many of the courses are simply not up to scratch.

Many of the excellent groomers I know are self taught through experience gained through necessity when exhibiting coated breeds, others have learnt hands on with excellent mentors. From my experiences I would have to think long and hard before I supported the need for Licensing or Qualifications.

[Tralee]

How hard can it be?

I've got some scissors and a comb.

Bring in the dogs.

I'll pick it up as i go along.

Don't worry I've been brushing my dogs regularly for six years. ;)

Do you need qualifications, certification, regulations and inspections?

Dah!

Some people have spent a lifetime in the kitchen. They still can't cook.

[~*Shell*~]

I've done a course so technically would be considered qualified. However, i could have gone through that entire course without touching a single dog. There is no way in hell i would consider myself qualified. i would like to learn more but i work full time and so can't just sit in on someone else grooming.

[Whimsical]

A point of interest maybe.........

I have a mixed breed desexed male with a long "maltese"-like coat which mats very quicky. His first grooming was a disaster. I wasn't there, just dropped him off and picked him up later, he was about a year old. Nothing was said, but since then he was not happy about being brushed, would really stress out.

Ultimately it became time for his next clip. I got a "mobile dog groomer" to come to my home. I went inside so as not to distract him. I could suddenly hear his terrified screaming and then the groomer knocked on the door asking for a bandaid as he had bitten her badly on her thumb.

He was uncontrollable, he vomited and had diahr.... (can't spell it! LOL), and was growling and barking like a dog possessed. I was terrified, I had never seen my dog in such a state, he was normally a lovable but yappy little fella! The groomer said it all started as soon as she turned on the clippers. With me holding him we finally managed to get the rest of the knots out of his fur. She made the decision to come back and try again on another day.

As soon as she came to the gate he took one look at her and started going crazy again. We came to the conclusion his first grooming was not a very pleasant day and the groomer had not told me that she may have had some problems.

Now every time he needs to be clipped, he still refuses to let me brush him and will try to bite me if I come near him with the brush, I have to take him to the vet. He is put to sleep, clipped, nails, thorough check of ears, teeth etc, then woken up. This is all at a great cost, believe me!

My new puppy is a border collie purebred girl, hopefully I can get her used to bathing and brushing before she is too much older and I have no problems with grooming her. At least I don't have to worry about clippers!

Hope I have not bored you with this long post - HOPE IT IS ALLOWED?

Linda

Edited to add: Yes, I do believe some qualifications are necessary! LOL

Edited February 6, 2011 by Whimsical

[Tralee]

The bottom line is that no amount of legislation, regulation, accreditation or WHAT'EVA makes a good groomer.

Laws are to deter people, not turn them into diamonds.

They can, sometimes protect people.

Like all things, there are very few diamonds.

[WreckitWhippet]

I've lost count of the number of dogs 12 months plus, that owners bring in, demand that they are clipped and think that it's going to be an easy job and the dog is simply going to accept it. I've been bitten, scratched, shat on and given a hard time from start to finish.

Most of them are delightful little dogs, quite friendly while being patted and it's all going their own way. Get the clippers or a brush out and try doing something they don't like and the teeth and claws come up.

I charge extra for those dogs that are hard to groom, have never been groomed, bite and scratch and make sure I tell the owners exactly how they have behaved.

I recommend that everyone who gets a coated breed or cross and intends to have it groomed, brings it to their groomer from 8 weeks on. Even if it's for a simple introduction to the bath, blow dryer and brush.

[Danielle]

The bottom line is that no amount of legislation, regulation, accreditation or WHAT'EVA makes a good groomer.

Laws are to deter people, not turn them into diamonds.

They can, sometimes protect people.

Like all things, there are very few diamonds.

Yep that's right but the point I'm trying to make is, like a vet, hairdresser, dentist etc, we groomers should have some kind of basic training. We are working with sharp instruments and I've seen dogs end up with half their ears chopped off due to an inexperienced person accidentally cutting too high up.

I'll never forget the dog that had the flap of skin that joins the leg to the torso nicked and it split right up to the body. Puppy needed 11 stitches. Groomer was someone with no training of danger zones on a dog, someone who had bought a mobile franchise. This dog lived in my street and thankfully ended up coming to me afterwards for clips. It took two years to get this dog to accept the grooming process, it was so traumatized.

That said, accidents do happen and even to the best of us. But some sort of course would be so beneficial to newbies starting out.

I'm guilty of nicking nails and making them bleed, so it's not just the untrained ppl who make mistakes. But I do think some sort of training would be helpful. It would also make it easier on clients to weed out the fly by night cowboys out there and choose someone with at least some basic safety knowledge.

[WreckitWhippet]

I learnt from the master when it came to groins and armpits.

You cut a dog, you pay for the vet bill and you explain to the owners why it happened.

I learnt to take care, from the very beginning

[Janba]

A point of interest maybe.........

We came to the conclusion his first grooming was not a very pleasant day and the groomer had not told me that she may have had some problems.

Now every time he needs to be clipped, he still refuses to let me brush him and will try to bite me if I come near him with the brush, I have to take him to the vet. He is put to sleep, clipped, nails, thorough check of ears, teeth etc, then woken up. This is all at a great cost, believe me!

My new puppy is a border collie purebred girl, hopefully I can get her used to bathing and brushing before she is too much older and I have no problems with grooming her. At least I don't have to worry about clippers!

Hope I have not bored you with this long post - HOPE IT IS ALLOWED?

Linda

Edited to add: Yes, I do believe some qualifications are necessary! LOL

I had a similar experience with one of my border collies who had always been good to groom. I got lazy and took him to a groomer when he was shedding to have the dead coat stripped back. He came back looking lovely. Next time I tried to brush him he gave a few warnings then airsnapped at me. Its taken about 2 yrs to get him to the stage he will happily let me brush him every where but his baggy drawers and tail. Who knows what they did to him but it must have really hurt or frightened him and it was a qualified groomer.

I would now only use a groomer who is personally recommended to me by someone I know and wouldn't worry about qualifications.

[Dogsfevr]

The tafe course is a laugh.I actually was going to do it to get the certificate many years ago but no way would i pay the $1000 plus have to re buy all the equipment i already own & be taught by someone who had no skills at all.

In fact i could have taught the class & they learnt more.

The problem is people bring there dogs full of mats because they don't brush them either because they can't be bothered or the dog bites them & they presume the groomer will train there dog in 2 hrs & it doesn't happen.

Most dog come when there too old & in a state that means there first experience will not be pleasant.Brushing knots out or evening clipping them off hurts.

Breeds like Maltese are the worst as there skin is so sensitive & they have no tolerance for knot removal but brushed correctly knots shouldn't appear in the first place

.

I have never been bitten due to good management but have certainly groomed some dogs that bring tears to your eyes & dropped off by owners who don't seem to have any idea about how hard it is to groom an untrained,matted animal .

.

Many groomers don't last long because of the wear & tear on your body .

For many the training they get didn't reveal what the true grooming world is like & that it isn't easy it is very hard/tiring work

As for the way people are taught to Schnauzer it makes us cry

It is truly one of the most unthankless jobs around .