Dingo's

[gemibabe]

Hi all, Been a while...

I work on a North WA minesite and we have Dingo's that visit us in the evenings while working. They only come around the lighting plants as the amount of grasshoppers they feed on are plentiful.

They look skinny though. If the minesite report to the owner of the land (a farmer) he will shoot them..

Is there perhaps a dingo rescue mob that could capture and relocate or rehome them in a wildlife sanction somewhere?

So far I've noticed a small pack of 3 - all about the same age - roughly 12 months going on height.

[Keira&Phoenix]

Hi all, Been a while...

I work on a North WA minesite and we have Dingo's that visit us in the evenings while working. They only come around the lighting plants as the amount of grasshoppers they feed on are plentiful.

They look skinny though. If the minesite report to the owner of the land (a farmer) he will shoot them..

Is there perhaps a dingo rescue mob that could capture and relocate or rehome them in a wildlife sanction somewhere?

So far I've noticed a small pack of 3 - all about the same age - roughly 12 months going on height.

Here is a link to the WA Dingo Assoc they may be able to help or put you in contact with someone who can help

http://www.wadingo.com/HOME.html

Edited to delete Parks and Wildlife because Monah is right they class them as pests which is ridiculous as they are our only wild dog and we live on their land, they should be protected.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix

[Monah]

be careful, calling parks andd wildlife here would result in PTS xxx please check...

lovely animals.

[erinonthefarm]

Just be aware that pure bred dingos are extremely rare, and you are more likely to see a dingo/domestic hybrid. The hybrids can look almost identical to a purebred dingo with as far as i'm aware, little for the average person to go by for identification.

Also, if there is Aboriginal Communities near by the chance they are hybrids increases.

In terms of the dogs body condition, Dingos are naturally very lean, maybe you could get a photo on here?

I imagine that it is not very easy to provide them with assistance given your remote location, unfortunately sometimes the most humane thing is for them to be destroyed if they are suffering. It is important that you don't feed them as they are dangerous when they lose fear of people.

I would recommend checking with Parks and Wildlife service, if they do cull it will prob be carried out with more sensitivity than what might otherwise happen to them.

[Keira&Phoenix]

If they are in a remote location though it is also quite possible that they are pure or close to pure dingoes and in that case they should be preserved, we can't say there are many pure dingoes anymore and that is very sad.

[gemibabe]

Its ok we don't have phone reception up here so wont be calling anyone just yet.

I will def try my hardest to get a picture. Might take a few weeks though as I'm FIFO 2/1.

I've bookmarked this thread so to when I do get the pic i'll bump it.

The dogs aren't affraid of our big haul packs. They come quite close when we are getting loaded under the digger. Smart little cookies.

[Skye GSD]

I am a Kiwi and thought the same thing regarding dingos when I first came here so can understand why people look at them and think they are just wild dogs.

Happened to be at wild life park (which we have frequented often with the grandkids and visiting relatives always made a point of spending time at the dingo area) but this time there was one dingo that had stitches literally all over it's body. Spoke with the carer and she told us that this dingo had strayed to another pack and got attacked. We then watched the feeding and this poor dingo was attacked again by it's own pack. I have seen dog fights in my time as a GSD owner but this was entirely different - really scary and I have never been able to go back to the dingo area on later visits. People have to remember that altho' they look like dogs they are feral and when not wary of humans can become even more unpredictable - especially when the pack mentality takes over.

[Sayreovi]

Unfortunately they probably aren't pure

Hopefully if the dingo rescue get to them, they can genetically test them and if they are pure find some breeding place for them.

Love dingoes, but they are heading the same way as the Tassie Tiger, won't be long till the pure ones are gone

[corvus]

There is a huge captive population of purebred dingoes. There are so many that most wildlife parks desex them.

[erinonthefarm]

http://www.wadingo.com/HOME.html

I read a study on the genetics of dingos on this link that keiraandpheonix posted. very interesting and rings true for my observations

I live in remote NT SE of Alice Springs with a local population of 80 people, similar to remote WA and I do not think that these dogs are any more likely to be pure because of this. Most Aboriginal communities are in these desert areas, and they do not practise desexing or restrain or contain their dogs (of which they vastly outnumber people in many cases). Any body who likes dogs would probably be disgusted by the camp dogs conditions and they do wander a lot to find food.

I consider it very sad that the Dingo's purity is all but gone, female dingos only have 1 heat a year and dingos are much more selective in their eating habits. They suppress feral cat and rabbit numbers. Hybrids do not offer the same environmental services, they will eat smaller prey like native mammals.

With the subject of this topic, maybe wait until after summer to see if they leave the mine site. The pure dingos I have seen wild are very lean ie hips ribs and some backbone visable. If they are eating grasshoppers they will do ok, and they may just leave when the grasshoppers run out.

[persephone]

They are probably youngsters..and grasshoppers are a great food! If no one is feeding them ,and they are timid .. I'd leave 'em be. Once there is human intervention , they will probably end up dead anyway...This way ,hopefully they will wander off when the grasshoppers die off.

[corvus]

Hybrids do not offer the same environmental services, they will eat smaller prey like native mammals.

Like grasshoppers? Or mice and rats? ;) You know, the kind of critters cats eat?

I kind of resent the notion of them going "the way of the Thylacine". The thylacine was a whole different deal all together. There are still purebred dingoes in captivity and likely will be for some time yet. They are in fact thought to be instrumental in the extinction of the thylacine on the mainland.

ETA If they are young 'uns it's likely they are dispersing and won't be around for long.

Edited February 5, 2011 by corvus

[Sayreovi]

I kind of resent the notion of them going "the way of the Thylacine". The thylacine was a whole different deal all together. There are still purebred dingoes in captivity and likely will be for some time yet. They are in fact thought to be instrumental in the extinction of the thylacine on the mainland.

How different? Both are slowly being eradicated by people, interesting to note that even though they are thought to be a driving force behind the 'tigers' and devils disappearance from mainlaind, that the thylacine was in fact a much larger, more adapted and more well suited to mainland Australia (at the time) then the Dingo. Same with the Tassie Devil, devils are able to defend themselves very well against wild dogs in Tassie and co-existed with the Thylacine for many many years but somehow this smaller, finer, less vicious version of the tiger wiped them out? Thylacines were also capable of reproducing quicker....Dingoes had no advantage.

How do we know that they weren't affected with something similar that the devils are currently going through?

There is no proof either way, but I kind of resent the notion of them being the scapegoat behind the disappearance of 2 unique Australia fauna......

Kind of sad that the mindset is if there is some in captivity that they are fine and going well, if an entire species is only surviving in captivity then they hardly doing that great. The only true pure strain of dingo exist either in captivity or Fraser Island. Once domestic dogs get to Fraser (and it will happen one day) then all thats left is in captivity, but what a waste......they will never be able to be released as there is nothing stopping the hybrids from breeding with them again. The species is too be extinct in the wild.

Edited February 6, 2011 by tollersowned

[KatrinaM]

The only true pure strain of dingo exist either in captivity or Fraser Island.

And you know this how? From capturing large numbers of a huge range of specific populations and testing for purity? or is it just a guess?

[corvus]

I kind of resent the notion of them going "the way of the Thylacine". The thylacine was a whole different deal all together. There are still purebred dingoes in captivity and likely will be for some time yet. They are in fact thought to be instrumental in the extinction of the thylacine on the mainland.

How different? Both are slowly being eradicated by people, interesting to note that even though they are thought to be a driving force behind the 'tigers' and devils disappearance from mainlaind, that the thylacine was in fact a much larger, more adapted and more well suited to mainland Australia (at the time) then the Dingo.

Then why are there Dingoes but no Thylacines? Just because a species evolved for a particular environment doesn't mean it is automatically more competetive in that environment than introduced species.

The eradication of the Thylacine was a political move. There was a bounty due to pressure from sheep farmers, even though there was no evidence they were actually killing sheep. They were not "slowly eradicated by people". They were systematically and quickly wiped out. The Dingo is not being eradicated. It's being genetically diluted. Not directly by people, just by the human love of dogs.

Same with the Tassie Devil, devils are able to defend themselves very well against wild dogs in Tassie and co-existed with the Thylacine for many many years but somehow this smaller, finer, less vicious version of the tiger wiped them out?

It's fairly typical for cats and dogs to outcompete other predators. They tend to be very efficient hunters. They don't have to actually fight with the local predators, just eat well. Thylacines were thought to be quite specialised, which always makes a species vulnerable, especially when a generalist like dogs (and humans) come along.

Thylacines were also capable of reproducing quicker....Dingoes had no advantage.

Oh really? I'm not sure anyone knows enough about Thylacine reproduction to make that claim. If they were anything like Devils, they had one litter a year like Dingoes, both reached sexual maturity at about 2 years, but Dingoes live longer and are likely to have more young. That gives the advantage to Dingoes. Plus, they have a broader ecological niche so the population can be larger if the environment is at holding capacity for both species.

How do we know that they weren't affected with something similar that the devils are currently going through?

There is no proof either way, but I kind of resent the notion of them being the scapegoat behind the disappearance of 2 unique Australia fauna......

Well, we do know that disease was implicated in the Thylacine's extinction, but given the population had already crashed due to hunting, it's a side issue. By the time they were protected it was already too late. You can resent it all you like, but Dingoes are not a scapegoat. They are adaptable invaders, just like people. It is still widely accepted that they were instrumental in the extinction of Thylacines and Tasmanian Devils on the mainland. Like it or lump it.

Kind of sad that the mindset is if there is some in captivity that they are fine and going well, if an entire species is only surviving in captivity then they hardly doing that great. The only true pure strain of dingo exist either in captivity or Fraser Island. Once domestic dogs get to Fraser (and it will happen one day) then all thats left is in captivity, but what a waste......they will never be able to be released as there is nothing stopping the hybrids from breeding with them again. The species is too be extinct in the wild.

I don't think it's right to compare them to Thylacines is all. Thylacines were for starters in their own genus. Dingoes are a subspecies. There are several pariah dogs around the world that are very similar to them. Thylacines were systematically eradicated whereas Dingoes are suffering from genetic dilution. IMO there is nothing that can be done about this state of affairs, so we may as well move on. The dingo will continue to exist in some form even if that form is more like a domestic dog than the dingoes we know today. It's just evolution. Species are not static. If the "pure" dingo is indeed the evolutionary pinnacle of wild dogs in Australia, then even with the genetic dilution the population will eventually drift back to look and behave much like current dingoes. If the dingo is not the evolutionary pinnacle, then a new type will dominate. As much as I'd like to preserve pure dingoes, the only way to do it is through captivity, which is already being done.

[Flick_Mac]

Corvus, I would guess that being a marsupial carnivore, the thylacine's reproduction would be far inferior to the dingo. It would only have as many young (maximum) as teats in its pouch, would have one lot of fertilised embryo's in the uterus ready to be born as soon as the pouch young moved out of the pouch, and then is likely to have had some on the ground. Not so sure about the ones on the ground - once weaned they may have moved away, but that's how roos and possums etc work.

The maximum teat numbers I've heard of in marsupials are about 6 (I'm pulling this from the deep dark depths of my memory!) in bandicoots or some other marsupial rodent... so I would think the reproduction capacity of the dingo would be one advantage it would have had over the thylacine - increased numbers increasing the competition for food resources.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Flick_Mac

[erinonthefarm]

I think some people have got into an arguement that is not really related to topic.

What is likely to happen to these dingos or hybrids if authorities are involved, what is the best outcome for them?

[Monah]

The government will slaughter all the dingoes on Fraser long before they get the chance to breed with dogs

I wouldn't tell authorities about dingoes, ever.

I keep very quiet..................

For some reason in other countries it is acceptable for humans to use common sense around wild animals, but not here. The 'rules' on Fraser Is. are really outrageous. Dont even say one has come within several metres of you....

Friends of mine were hiking in canada last year and have pics of grizzlies... no one came and slaughtered them..

girlchild has worked in Africa and was told to be careful etc.

It's a different story here altogether..

dingoes are hunters AND scavengers,, if they scavenge around humans, authorities will kill them.

[Keira&Phoenix]

Corvus - even though they were introduced they were introduced THOUSANDS of years ago and they are a wild dog and although there are similar species around the World Dingoes are unique to Australia and once wiped out there will be no more. They are some of the only remaining wild dogs that are very closely related to the wolf and as such should be protected. And it matters not that there are some in captivity they are WILD dogs and the longer they are in captivity the less they will become like dingoes and more like dogs.

Also I think its ridiculous to blame the Thylacine extinction on Dingoes that was all HUMANS we went out and poached them to death and that is our own fault and problem, if they were left alone I no doubt think there would still be a population left. Its not like we haven't done it in the past to other species all over the world, humans destroy nature and we have lost many unique animals because of it.

Don't report them to the Govt, they are not hurting anyone they are eating grasshoppers which are pests anyways.

[MalteseLuna]

Just be aware that pure bred dingos are extremely rare, and you are more likely to see a dingo/domestic hybrid. The hybrids can look almost identical to a purebred dingo with as far as i'm aware, little for the average person to go by for identification.

Actually this is untrue - most research to date suggests that purebred dingoes are common in remote and less populated areas such as WA, NT, SA. In NSW, Vic and QLD however there are large amounts of hybrids and fewer purebred animals. This does not mean that there are no purebred animals.

Unfortunately they probably aren't pure

Hopefully if the dingo rescue get to them, they can genetically test them and if they are pure find some breeding place for them.

Love dingoes, but they are heading the same way as the Tassie Tiger, won't be long till the pure ones are gone

Again - in WA I would actually expect them to be pure.

There is a huge captive population of purebred dingoes. There are so many that most wildlife parks desex them.

They are desexed in alot of zoo's because they don't want to breed them (alot of zoo's are phasing them out as they don't draw big crowds). Additionally alot of the sanctuaries cannot afford to breed extensively or even more than 1 litter a year as there are not enough homes (private or sanctuaries or zoos). This is why alot are desexed not because there are such large numbers.

I think this is very sad - the Dingo is Australia's top level and arguably native terrestiral carnivore - the removal of the dingo would lead to drastic and probably catastrophic changes in the ecosystems of Australia.

I kind of resent the notion of them going "the way of the Thylacine". The thylacine was a whole different deal all together. There are still purebred dingoes in captivity and likely will be for some time yet. They are in fact thought to be instrumental in the extinction of the thylacine on the mainland.

ETA If they are young 'uns it's likely they are dispersing and won't be around for long.

It is true they probably did play a role in the extinction of the Thylacine on the mainland - however it could have been humans as well and the Thylacine numbers were in decline before the dingo was thought to have arrived- there is simply no way to tell. However them being here 5000 years or more and now residing as the top-level carnivore suggests to me that they should be PROTECTED and treated as a native. They have been here a hell of alot longer than Europeans or any of the introduced species such as foxes, rabbits, cane toads etc. Of course everyone has their own opinion concerning this - but the scientific research stands that the dingo is VERY important to the native ecology of Australian in present day.

The eradication of the Thylacine was a political move. There was a bounty due to pressure from sheep farmers, even though there was no evidence they were actually killing sheep. They were not "slowly eradicated by people". They were systematically and quickly wiped out. The Dingo is not being eradicated. It's being genetically diluted. Not directly by people, just by the human love of dogs.

Similar to how the dingo is being wiped out - in its true form - today. Culling, baiting etc does NOTHING to keep dingo populations in check as most farmers believe them to - in actual fact it leads to increased stock predation, increased population sizes (as pack structure is gone thereby all females are breeding not just the Alpha's).

In fact the best way of reducing stock predation is to make better fences, use lifestock protectors like Alpacs/llamas or Maramma Sheep dogs and leave dingo pack stucture alone. - they will self-regulate their population sizes and only the Alpha animals will breed.

Preserving dingo pack structure also greatly decreases the chance of hybrids.

It is still widely accepted that they were instrumental in the extinction of Thylacines and Tasmanian Devils on the mainland. Like it or lump it.

It's obviously not that widely accepted - they may have had a role in the devils decline on the mainland but as I have read the Thylacine was already in decline. Additionally you/we cannot rule out the actions of humans - it's unlikely to have been just dingoes. They are treated as a scapegoat for almost everything - yet most of the allegations blamed on dingoes are untrue.

Kind of sad that the mindset is if there is some in captivity that they are fine and going well, if an entire species is only surviving in captivity then they hardly doing that great. The only true pure strain of dingo exist either in captivity or Fraser Island. Once domestic dogs get to Fraser (and it will happen one day) then all thats left is in captivity, but what a waste......they will never be able to be released as there is nothing stopping the hybrids from breeding with them again. The species is too be extinct in the wild.

I don't think it's right to compare them to Thylacines is all. Thylacines were for starters in their own genus. Dingoes are a subspecies. There are several pariah dogs around the world that are very similar to them. Thylacines were systematically eradicated whereas Dingoes are suffering from genetic dilution. IMO there is nothing that can be done about this state of affairs, so we may as well move on. The dingo will continue to exist in some form even if that form is more like a domestic dog than the dingoes we know today. It's just evolution. Species are not static. If the "pure" dingo is indeed the evolutionary pinnacle of wild dogs in Australia, then even with the genetic dilution the population will eventually drift back to look and behave much like current dingoes. If the dingo is not the evolutionary pinnacle, then a new type will dominate. As much as I'd like to preserve pure dingoes, the only way to do it is through captivity, which is already being done.

I agree that it's sad that the thought of 'real' dingoes surviving in captivity is the reason why it's okay to not protect them.

Dingoes may be classed as a subspecies but so are most wild wolves or wild/pariah dogs - most of which are PROTECTED in their native habitats.

Genetic dilution is a HUGE problem for many wild animals for which there is a domesticated form i.e. wild cats and domestic cats, wolves and domestic dogs, coyotes and domestic dogs, buffalo and cattle...

The dingo will not continue to exist if genetic dilution is occuring - it is no longer a dingo. It is by definition no longer a dingo. A dingo is the native wild dog of Australia not a domesticated dog. It has been wild for atleast 5000 years and likely was feral long before that (perhaps some were tamed but its also likely they were brought to Australia as a food source by travelers not as a pet or companion). They have unique biology, behaviors and even structural differences.

Hybrids are not the same as dingoes - they are often larger, breed 2 times a year rather than 1, are believed to predate on stock more than dingoes (probably because they either don't have the wild instincts or have not been taught how to hunt properly).

Dingoes can be preserved in the wild - nearly 90% of wild canines in remote areas are dingoes rather than hybrids. Additionally places like Fraser Island should be preserved with their wild dingoes intact.

It frustrates me that people think its okay to shoot a wild animal/carnivore for killing prey (stock) - if the animal was a tiger or lion or wolf one would think that the carnivore would be forgiven - but actually most of the times wild carnivores are shot because they kill livestock no matter their importance/rarity.

Even rare endangered leopards are shot for daring to kill life stock. It is absolutely ridiculous. The carnivores were present before us humans with our life stock and farming practices.

Now i'm not saying that I have no sympathy for farmers who have to deal with carnivores killing their stock - obviously its horrible and very damaging financially - but sometimes we have to step back and look at the whole picture or find ways of dealing with the issue rather than simply reaching for our guns.

In response to the OP - I would contact the WA dingo society and see what they say. However they may not have the funds to do anything - alot of these sanctuaries/groups are only scraping by.