WreckitWhippet Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 CDA , is a problem found in dilutes only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Actually I have also seen a lot of blue Am Staffs with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc. Its not just SBTs. We live in melboure and show regularly in vic i personally know almost every AST that does the show circuit and i challenge you to back up your claims and point out to me, all these blue AST’s with the bad mouths and skin problem. What a load of BS just ask for terry and jenny with the amstafs ingroup 2 It's not generally the dogs that are on the show circuit which are bred by BYB who breed ONLY for colour. As already said, the blue SBT is virtually never seen at shows which is quite a different situation to the Amstaff - but I'd be interested to know the health stats on BYB blue Amstaffs bred for their colour alone, that would be a fair comparison, certainly not the Amstaffs bred and owned by people who are interested in showing. Ok then, but can you tell me where have you seen so many AST’s ,with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc. Im not trying to be smart, just curious to find out how and where you see so many bad dogs . do you work in a vet clinic or something? I guess you're asking Kirty, because I never said I had no but you were more than happy to speak for her Think you need to re-read the quotes. I pointed out that no one was dissing show-going, responsibly bred Amstaffs. Yes I do support Kirty's knowledge based on what I understand she has seen but I hardly think she needs me to speak for her. So you disagree that BYB Amstaffs bred only for their colour have issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Breeding for colour is no different than breeding for head size, muscle mass etc.. but at least the physical attributes can be used for gain if you were a hunting breeder. Charging a fortune and calling them rare, now that is a load of rubbish!! Breeding Amstaffs for big heads and massive muscle really IMO isn't doing the breed any favours. Humans have bred dogs to look a certain way for hundreds of years but once upon a time it was for practicality, now it just seems it's for looks. Same as red nose pitbull breeders thinking it makes it more original or something breeding a rednose line..? I personally like bull breeds with white heads especially amstaffs, though it means nothing if the dog is not physically upto scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Exactly. The popularity of the colour blue in AmStaffs AND SBT's has led to BYB getting on the bandwagon and breeding lots of sub-quality, blue animals. In fact, I am pretty sure the ONLY colour AmStaff I have seen walk through our clinic doors has been blue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Woofs Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) I agree that there are SOME amstaff's with these issues, and they are MOSTLY from BYB's. However I think it needs to be made clear that there are MANY amstaffs that are dilutes that are exceptional... unlike quality blue/dilute SBT which are "nearly" non-existant in Australia (there are a few). This thread holds the strong opinion that ANYONE who breeds blue SBT's is unethical. Blue Amstaffs were then brought up and I think we need to be clear that this is not the case for amstaffs. There are many ethical breeders that are breeding quality blue amstaffs. YES there are also the dodgy breeders, but if someone wanted to buy a blue amstaff then there are many good breeders in this country that they can buy one from that have great conformation, health, and temperament. We just need to educate people to go to these good breeders rather than the breeders that are doing the wrong thing. Edited February 7, 2011 by 3Woofs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxiedog Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I agree that there are SOME amstaff's with these issues, and they are MOSTLY from BYB's.However I think it needs to be made clear that there are MANY amstaffs that are dilutes that are exceptional... unlike quality blue/dilute SBT which are "nearly" non-existant in Australia (there are a few). This thread holds the strong opinion that ANYONE who breeds blue SBT's is unethical. Blue Amstaffs were then brought up and I think we need to be clear that this is not the case for amstaffs. There are many ethical breeders that are breeding quality blue amstaffs. YES there are also the dodgy breeders, but if someone wanted to buy a blue amstaff then there are many good breeders in this country that they can buy one from that have great conformation, health, and temperament. We just need to educate people to go to these good breeders rather than the breeders that are doing the wrong thing. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxiedog Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Actually I have also seen a lot of blue Am Staffs with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc. Its not just SBTs. We live in melboure and show regularly in vic i personally know almost every AST that does the show circuit and i challenge you to back up your claims and point out to me, all these blue AST’s with the bad mouths and skin problem. What a load of BS just ask for terry and jenny with the amstafs ingroup 2 It's not generally the dogs that are on the show circuit which are bred by BYB who breed ONLY for colour. As already said, the blue SBT is virtually never seen at shows which is quite a different situation to the Amstaff - but I'd be interested to know the health stats on BYB blue Amstaffs bred for their colour alone, that would be a fair comparison, certainly not the Amstaffs bred and owned by people who are interested in showing. Ok then, but can you tell me where have you seen so many AST’s ,with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc. Im not trying to be smart, just curious to find out how and where you see so many bad dogs . do you work in a vet clinic or something? I guess you're asking Kirty, because I never said I had no but you were more than happy to speak for her Think you need to re-read the quotes. I pointed out that no one was dissing show-going, responsibly bred Amstaffs. Yes I do support Kirty's knowledge based on what I understand she has seen but I hardly think she needs me to speak for her. So you disagree that BYB Amstaffs bred only for their colour have issues? Im strongly against back yard breeders just as much as i despise the unethical so called breeders/ farmers that have caught on to my breed like a terrible unstoppable disease.its these people that are the cause of many problems that come from breeding un health tested dogs or breeding tested dogs that have severely failed in their health testing.it has nothing to do with the dogs being blue, more of the breeders not putting any thought into what they breed. They let 2 dogs root and believe that qualifies them to call themselves a breeder But i do disagree on the comments that in AST’s the colour blue is to blame for health problems . there are some ethical breeders in Australia that have been breeding blues for over 10 years now without any problems caused by the colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMetal Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Points of interest are already bought the dog registered dog blue is not a disallowed colour blue can be shown and titled If it was in my family, I'd say "great pup, congratulations" and let it go. You are not going to change anything by flogging the breeder or the fiance. You will put yourself off side with him (and probably your sister too) for something you cannot change. If you bash him and he agrees, what will he do with the pup? Get rid of it? Euthanase it? Or - the worst - not be as proud of it as he was, and not like it as much. You'll spoil his pleasure. And dogs are about pleasure - not criticism. Be happy for him, he bought what he wanted, he is happy, the breeder was registered. He might have problems, and then you can help. Family relationships are more important than the colour of a dog, and the education needed to happen pre purchase. And it probably was an accredited breeder ;) totally agree!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMetal Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Before you say anything, think about how you would feel jf your sisters fiancé criticized your brand new puppy, the breeder he bought him from, the breeders practices, the price he paid. Then say "he's beautiful!" like you mean it and leave it at that. why ? if one of my family went out and purchased a blue pup, they'd certainly be subject to what I thought. followed by not to bother to come to me when poo hits the fan, because they have been warned. I would do the same. How are people ever going to learn if we all keep our mouths shut? Diplomacy, tact and good family relations. There are times when keeping ones mouth shut is a sign of maturity and this is one of those times. The pup's already bought and paid for and no doubt being shown off proudly. What earthly good is criticising the purchase going to do now? That's not educating anyone, that's just making yourself look like a mean-spirited know-all. agreed!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMetal Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) As for skin Allergies ect they are no different to any other Stafford I think its a case of you like them or you don't there are predigest people every where and just because they dont like the colour does not mean they are a bad dog and should be baged it is still a Staffordshire Bull Terrier in every way. The looks, temperment and their love of people I can keep going on, A Stafford is a Stafford no matter the colour. Don't judge a book by its cover:) If there are bad Staffords out there Its the person who breed the dog or owns the dog you should look at as some of these can be rough around the edges. couldnt agree more! Edited February 15, 2011 by MissMetal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbc Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I agree that there are SOME amstaff's with these issues, and they are MOSTLY from BYB's.However I think it needs to be made clear that there are MANY amstaffs that are dilutes that are exceptional... unlike quality blue/dilute SBT which are "nearly" non-existant in Australia (there are a few). This thread holds the strong opinion that ANYONE who breeds blue SBT's is unethical. Blue Amstaffs were then brought up and I think we need to be clear that this is not the case for amstaffs. There are many ethical breeders that are breeding quality blue amstaffs. YES there are also the dodgy breeders, but if someone wanted to buy a blue amstaff then there are many good breeders in this country that they can buy one from that have great conformation, health, and temperament. We just need to educate people to go to these good breeders rather than the breeders that are doing the wrong thing. I definately think that the blue Amstaff is generally of far better quality than the blue SBT in fact when people ask me about blue SBT i explain about the problems we are facing with the colour breeders then suggest if they are set on a blue dog perhaps look at an Amstaff as they seem to be of much better quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) As for skin Allergies ect they are no different to any other Stafford I think its a case of you like them or you don't there are predigest people every where and just because they dont like the colour does not mean they are a bad dog and should be baged it is still a Staffordshire Bull Terrier in every way. The looks, temperment and their love of people I can keep going on, A Stafford is a Stafford no matter the colour. Don't judge a book by its cover:) If there are bad Staffords out there Its the person who breed the dog or owns the dog you should look at as some of these can be rough around the edges. couldnt agree more! If a Stafford is a Stafford no matter the colour, I have to ask myself why people are paying through the nose for blues. Clearly both colour breeders and buyers ARE judging the book by its cover because demand for the colour is high (despite known health issues in dilute x dilute matings) and the dogs are being sold for far more than other coloured pups. Deliberately breeding dogs that have a one in four chance of a colour related skin condition IS unethical. I don't care how you dress it up. And every breeder jumping on the bandwagon of blue and every buyer that feeds the demand is contibuting to the degeneration of the standard of the breed. If you think blue Staffords are generally good examples of the breed then all I can say is you can't have seen many others. No point in saying anything to blue Stafford buyers. They don't want to hear anything. They rattle on about how their dogs are just Staffords when its plain they wouldn't have wanted one in a more 'common' colour. Ah the irony - blues ain't rare, the only thing special about them is the price. Edited February 15, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMetal Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 As for skin Allergies ect they are no different to any other Stafford I think its a case of you like them or you don't there are predigest people every where and just because they dont like the colour does not mean they are a bad dog and should be baged it is still a Staffordshire Bull Terrier in every way. The looks, temperment and their love of people I can keep going on, A Stafford is a Stafford no matter the colour. Don't judge a book by its cover:) If there are bad Staffords out there Its the person who breed the dog or owns the dog you should look at as some of these can be rough around the edges. couldnt agree more! If a Stafford is a Stafford no matter the colour, I have to ask myself why people are paying through the nose for blues. Clearly both colour breeders and buyers ARE judging the book by its cover because demand for the colour is high (despite known health issues in dilute x dilute matings) and the dogs are being sold for far more than other coloured pups. Deliberately breeding dogs that have a one in four chance of a colour related skin condition IS unethical. I don't care how you dress it up. And every breeder jumping on the bandwagon of blue and every buyer that feeds the demand is contibuting to the degeneration of the standard of the breed. If you think blue Staffords are generally good examples of the breed then all I can say is you can't have seen many others. No point in saying anything to blue Stafford buyers. They don't want to hear anything. They rattle on about how their dogs are just Staffords when its plain they wouldn't have wanted one in a more 'common' colour. Ah the irony - blues ain't rare, the only thing special about them is the price. ive owned 3 SBT before owning my current blue pup. asll 3 were also from registered breeders. 1 was brindle, 1 was white/brindle pied & 1 was red ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 ive owned 3 SBT before owning my current blue pup. asll 3 were also from registered breeders. 1 was brindle, 1 was white/brindle pied & 1 was red ;) So you made the decision to purchase and raised 3 dogs before this one? Or was that your parents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMetal Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 ive owned 3 SBT before owning my current blue pup. asll 3 were also from registered breeders. 1 was brindle, 1 was white/brindle pied & 1 was red ;) So you made the decision to purchase and raised 3 dogs before this one? Or was that your parents? all mine, what that got to do with it anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I know a few people who have previously or currently own brindle or red SBTs who have purchased or plan to purchase a blue pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 ive owned 3 SBT before owning my current blue pup. asll 3 were also from registered breeders. 1 was brindle, 1 was white/brindle pied & 1 was red So you made the decision to purchase and raised 3 dogs before this one? Or was that your parents? all mine, what that got to do with it anyway? Comes down as to who made the decision to buy what. Your questions on puppy raising made me peg you as a novice owner.. seems I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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