Is A Blue Stafford Breeder Unethical?

[Montage]

There's a current ad that gave me a good laugh because the breeder is obviously taking the piss out of the blue SBT breeders. The ad states 'rare coloured puppies' ......they are black/brindle so getting rarer by the minute! Goes on to describe that they are bred for improving the breed not the bank account. Love it.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Montage

[casowner]

I think with any animal if you breed for one particular quality you generally compromise on the breed standard or quality so continuously breeding for colour would obviously compromise the quality of the dogs that you are producing. Using animals for colour without beginning with perfect/quality animals to begin with means that you aren't all of a sudden going to have a perfect animal with the colour you want. For example I desperately wanted a pony of a particular colour and got so caught up with finding one I didn't see her obvious conformational faults. I posted a pic of her on DOL and they were pointed out to me, I opened my eyes and saw that I was colour blinded and although upset didn't purchase her for all of the right reasons.

From what I have read the issues apart from the cour and skin have been that they are generally over sized and have big heads, that is what I have gathered from other blue stafford threads

Edited February 5, 2011 by casowner

[LizT]

So basically because those that follow breed specs realise that a black nose isn't going to happen so don't bother with the blues, making it the domain of those who see an opportunity to cash in having $$$$ in their eyes.

I find it interesting as I had/have two lilac Burmese (a father and daughter) still have dad, the lilac is a dilute of Blue. They came from a mix colour mating however and are beeeuuutiful animals.

Although...they did both arrive with ringworm and bald ears. The breeder telling me she had used a flea kill solution at too strong a mix and had burnt the ears. That may be, but my vet diagnosed ringworm as the cause of hair loss. Once treated it cleared up quickly and the hair regrew. Never had any skin problems since, 16 years on.

[Kirty]

Actually I have also seen a lot of blue Am Staffs with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc. Its not just SBTs.

[headmaster030]

if the blue dogs are pure & occur naturaly they should be excepted & no the breeder isnt unethical, but if the quality is poor then the true breeder will sort the rubbish out & so will the show ring.

at the end of the day if breeders are so concerned breed a decent blue & show people what good conformation is. people should be more concerned with conformation rather than the colour, colour should be the last thing on peoples mind.

[Sandra777]

if the blue dogs are pure & occur naturaly they should be excepted & no the breeder isnt unethical, but if the quality is poor then the true breeder will sort the rubbish out & so will the show ring.

at the end of the day if breeders are so concerned breed a decent blue & show people what good conformation is. people should be more concerned with conformation rather than the colour, colour should be the last thing on peoples mind.

ACCEPTED. Want to re-consider your choice of user name???? :eek: :eek:

The thing is that blues are virtually never seen in the show ring - and I can't recall seeing more than a handful at specialist shows where they might actually get the opinion of someone with real knowledge of the breed, the the huge majority of breeders of blues have no idea what they're aiming for in terms of correct conformation - let alone actually try to prove they can breed it!

[headmaster030]

if the blue dogs are pure & occur naturaly they should be excepted & no the breeder isnt unethical, but if the quality is poor then the true breeder will sort the rubbish out & so will the show ring.

at the end of the day if breeders are so concerned breed a decent blue & show people what good conformation is. people should be more concerned with conformation rather than the colour, colour should be the last thing on peoples mind.

ACCEPTED. Want to re-consider your choice of user name???? :eek: :eek:

The thing is that blues are virtually never seen in the show ring - and I can't recall seeing more than a handful at specialist shows where they might actually get the opinion of someone with real knowledge of the breed, the the huge majority of breeders of blues have no idea what they're aiming for in terms of correct conformation - let alone actually try to prove they can breed it!

i couldnt agree with you more but at the end of the day you are going to have breeders with different agendas & ideas to yours or mine for that matter & we are never going to agree entirely on them. just remember that if it werent for the badly conformed animals out there ours wouldnt do so well in the show ring.

why would i like to reconcider my choice of user name?????????

[Kirty]

Because you call yourself a headmaster but cannot tell the difference between two similar but very different words?

Excepted = excluded

Accepted = included

[Gayle.]

why would i like to reconcider my choice of user name?????????

Due to your incorrect use of the word "excepted". It should have been "accepted" in the context you'd used the word. Kind of funny, considering your username.

[roxiedog]

Actually I have also seen a lot of blue Am Staffs with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc. Its not just SBTs.

We live in melboure and show regularly in vic i personally know almost every AST that does the show circuit and i challenge you to back up your claims and point out to me, all these blue AST’s with the bad mouths and skin problem. What a load of BS

just ask for terry and jenny with the amstafs ingroup 2

[3Woofs]

Actually I have also seen a lot of blue Am Staffs with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc. Its not just SBTs.

We live in melboure and show regularly in vic i personally know almost every AST that does the show circuit and i challenge you to back up your claims and point out to me, all these blue AST’s with the bad mouths and skin problem. What a load of BS

just ask for terry and jenny with the amstafs ingroup 2

[Sandra777]

Actually I have also seen a lot of blue Am Staffs with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc. Its not just SBTs.

We live in melboure and show regularly in vic i personally know almost every AST that does the show circuit and i challenge you to back up your claims and point out to me, all these blue AST’s with the bad mouths and skin problem. What a load of BS

just ask for terry and jenny with the amstafs ingroup 2

It's not generally the dogs that are on the show circuit which are bred by BYB who breed ONLY for colour. As already said, the blue SBT is virtually never seen at shows which is quite a different situation to the Amstaff - but I'd be interested to know the health stats on BYB blue Amstaffs bred for their colour alone, that would be a fair comparison, certainly not the Amstaffs bred and owned by people who are interested in showing.

[Sayreovi]

Actually I have also seen a lot of blue Am Staffs with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc. Its not just SBTs.

We live in melboure and show regularly in vic i personally know almost every AST that does the show circuit and i challenge you to back up your claims and point out to me, all these blue AST’s with the bad mouths and skin problem. What a load of BS

just ask for terry and jenny with the amstafs ingroup 2

Kirty wasn't talking about show AmStaff's obviously I would hope the ones in the ring look like AmStaffs, have good teeth and skin......I am sure there are a fair amount of BYB blue AmStaffs around with those issues.

[roxiedog]

Actually I have also seen a lot of blue Am Staffs with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc. Its not just SBTs.

We live in melboure and show regularly in vic i personally know almost every AST that does the show circuit and i challenge you to back up your claims and point out to me, all these blue AST’s with the bad mouths and skin problem. What a load of BS

just ask for terry and jenny with the amstafs ingroup 2

It's not generally the dogs that are on the show circuit which are bred by BYB who breed ONLY for colour. As already said, the blue SBT is virtually never seen at shows which is quite a different situation to the Amstaff - but I'd be interested to know the health stats on BYB blue Amstaffs bred for their colour alone, that would be a fair comparison, certainly not the Amstaffs bred and owned by people who are interested in showing.

Ok then, but can you tell me where have you seen so many AST’s ,with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc.

Im not trying to be smart, just curious to find out how and where you see so many bad dogs . do you work in a vet clinic or something?

[Sandra777]

Actually I have also seen a lot of blue Am Staffs with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc. Its not just SBTs.

We live in melboure and show regularly in vic i personally know almost every AST that does the show circuit and i challenge you to back up your claims and point out to me, all these blue AST’s with the bad mouths and skin problem. What a load of BS

just ask for terry and jenny with the amstafs ingroup 2

It's not generally the dogs that are on the show circuit which are bred by BYB who breed ONLY for colour. As already said, the blue SBT is virtually never seen at shows which is quite a different situation to the Amstaff - but I'd be interested to know the health stats on BYB blue Amstaffs bred for their colour alone, that would be a fair comparison, certainly not the Amstaffs bred and owned by people who are interested in showing.

Ok then, but can you tell me where have you seen so many AST’s ,with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc.

Im not trying to be smart, just curious to find out how and where you see so many bad dogs . do you work in a vet clinic or something?

I guess you're asking Kirty, because I never said I had

Edited February 6, 2011 by Sandra777

[Gayle.]

Kirty works in a job that brings her into contact with many, many purebred dogs. She is more qualified than most to make that statement.

[Kirty]

Thanks Gayle and the others who defended me. I work in a vet clinic and we see our fair share of AmStaffs. I never said that ALL blue AmStaff's had problems, but that I had seen lots that did. In fact, dilute x dilute seems to cause problems in a wide variety of animals, not just dogs.

[Ozstar]

There is a breeder (uses the term loosely) of AST in SA that I have seen a few of that have bad mouths and some have skin issues, most of them have been blue or blue fawn but that could be because that colour is more popular here.

With the blue SBT the majority that I see in SA are shocking conformation wise and I often get emails from people asking if I can help them with skin issues. The majority of blue SBT breeders in SA would not know what a dog show was and are only in it for the money

Leanne

Edited February 6, 2011 by Ozstar Kennels

[roxiedog]

Actually I have also seen a lot of blue Am Staffs with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc. Its not just SBTs.

We live in melboure and show regularly in vic i personally know almost every AST that does the show circuit and i challenge you to back up your claims and point out to me, all these blue AST’s with the bad mouths and skin problem. What a load of BS

just ask for terry and jenny with the amstafs ingroup 2

It's not generally the dogs that are on the show circuit which are bred by BYB who breed ONLY for colour. As already said, the blue SBT is virtually never seen at shows which is quite a different situation to the Amstaff - but I'd be interested to know the health stats on BYB blue Amstaffs bred for their colour alone, that would be a fair comparison, certainly not the Amstaffs bred and owned by people who are interested in showing.

Ok then, but can you tell me where have you seen so many AST’s ,with the same kind of issues as the SBTs. Very bad skin, lots of them that look nothing like an AmStaff, shocking teeth, etc.

Im not trying to be smart, just curious to find out how and where you see so many bad dogs . do you work in a vet clinic or something?

I guess you're asking Kirty, because I never said I had

no but you were more than happy to speak for her

[roxiedog]

I cant speak for staff bulls, thats why i asked the question . but id do have a fair amount of experience with amstafs and know that bad mouths and skin problems have nothing to do with the dog being blue.