Keira&Phoenix Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) Before you say anything, think about how you would feel jf your sisters fiancé criticized your brand new puppy, the breeder he bought him from, the breeders practices, the price he paid. Then say "he's beautiful!" like you mean it and leave it at that. See above post. This was the first post in the whole thread that actually mentioned her saying anything to him. Even though at no stage did the OP even suggest she was going to say anything. She was just curious about the colour. Edited February 3, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 So, I heard recently that my sister's fiance went and bought himself a stafford pup from a registered breeder. I was very impressed, until my mother excitedly told me that the puppy was blue. I automatically had sirens going in my head, but then thought I'd go and visit the ever wise DOL before I said anything stupid. I have no idea what this breeder charged for the pup, so I can't make a comment on whether he was ripped off or not. Is a breeder who specifically breeds blue staffords unethical, or should I be proud of him that he went to a registered breeder rather than a backyarder? I am aware that blues can't be shown, and that due to their popularity and 'rareness' that there is a lack of actual quality within the colour - so a breeder specifically breeding for the colour wouldn't be aiming for breed betterment. Also, I've heard of a number of allergy and skin issues related to blues? On the other hand, should I just be happy that he's gone to someone who I presume health tests their stock and somewhat goes by the book? I don't know. I'm confused. This would suggest that the OP did intend to say something about the puppy if her fears were backed up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keira&Phoenix Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 So, I heard recently that my sister's fiance went and bought himself a stafford pup from a registered breeder. I was very impressed, until my mother excitedly told me that the puppy was blue. I automatically had sirens going in my head, but then thought I'd go and visit the ever wise DOL before I said anything stupid. I have no idea what this breeder charged for the pup, so I can't make a comment on whether he was ripped off or not. Is a breeder who specifically breeds blue staffords unethical, or should I be proud of him that he went to a registered breeder rather than a backyarder? I am aware that blues can't be shown, and that due to their popularity and 'rareness' that there is a lack of actual quality within the colour - so a breeder specifically breeding for the colour wouldn't be aiming for breed betterment. Also, I've heard of a number of allergy and skin issues related to blues? On the other hand, should I just be happy that he's gone to someone who I presume health tests their stock and somewhat goes by the book? I don't know. I'm confused. This would suggest that the OP did intend to say something about the puppy if her fears were backed up here. Depends on how you want to read it I guess. Maybe she meant before she said something stupid to her Mother who was telling her about the pup....oh well in the end I think the OP got her answer and I am sure she will do what she thinks is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.mister Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 No, I decided to come to Dol before considering saying anything. Hence the above remark. Feel free to take the thread off on a tangent though if you wish. I guess I have learned that I must keep my opinions completely to myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 No, I decided to come to Dol before considering saying anything. Hence the above remark. Feel free to take the thread off on a tangent though if you wish. I guess I have learned that I must keep my opinions completely to myself. You asked were it came from. I answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I don't know where you got this from? It was actually in reply to the post above it by Isiss. I hardly know the guy. I'm not going to bash him, or criticize him, nor berate him from wherever the hell he got the pup. However I don't think I should be forced to keep my mouth shut on issues that I think matter. Doesn't mean I'm going to bash someone around the ears with it! As Jules poited out, you said you came on here to find out info before you said anything stupid. I would take that to mean, before you said anything stupid to your sisters fiance about his new puppy. Quite a number of times I've seen a new DOLer post about their brand new papered blue Stafford, and get a million and one replies about why they shouldn't have bought it. What's the allowance here that I don't seem to have? What you often see on DOL is a rabid pack of wolves going after an innocent bystander. And it's not socially acceptable behaviour. If you take what you see on DOL and use it in the real world you'll find you're not very popular. My question was, "Is a Blue Stafford Breeder Unethical?" That might have been the title of your post, but it wasn't all of the content. And besides, the only one of my posts that was directed at you was the first one and that was in repsonse to this statement: I automatically had sirens going in my head, but then thought I'd go and visit the ever wise DOL before I said anything stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 My question was, "Is a Blue Stafford Breeder Unethical?" - not "Should I go and verbally bash my sister's fiance?". For crying out loud. Yes if they have done all the relevant health tests, not bred specifically for a colour and not charged more for that colour. Blue can haapen win a well planned, well bred litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Dog Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Blue is not "rare" anymore! It seems every second staffy you see these days is "blue". Breeding for colour alone is unethical, especially when there are health problems associated with the particular colour. And blue staffys very rarely actually look like a well-bred stafford should. It's worrying how 'fashionable' some dogs are. We had half a dozen blue SBTs in our puppy preschool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 My question was, "Is a Blue Stafford Breeder Unethical?" - not "Should I go and verbally bash my sister's fiance?". For crying out loud. Yes if they have done all the relevant health tests, not bred specifically for a colour and not charged more for that colour. Blue can haapen win a well planned, well bred litter. It's not common for the ethical breeder with a well planned and well bred litter to have blue pop up. I know of one and I haven't seen a blue in any litters of breeders that I know ( and see on a regualr basis ) in the last 10 years. Anyone that breeds SBT's and is hoping to get blue or does a mating knowing they will produce it , isn't ethical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Anyone that breeds SBT's and is hoping to get blue or does a mating knowing they will produce it , isn't ethical. Don't necessarily agree with that one. Depends on the strength of the ''will produce it'' I guess. A lot of the older SA lines produce blue on a regular basis, the breeders knew this and it didn't generally bother them either way - they did the best mating they could knowing it was likely there would be a blue - they didn't do the mating because they knew there would be a blue but because it was the best mating they could decide on but they knew the dilute was there and likely to appear. They had the knowledge it was there but weren't motivated by this knowledge----fine difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrietta Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 A look at the DOL advertisements for SBTs is an eye opener. How long has this trend been going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keira&Phoenix Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 A look at the DOL advertisements for SBTs is an eye opener. How long has this trend been going on? Wow yeah thats the first time I have looked at the ads on DOL how worrying! Its been going on a while now I know that I have been hearing about "rare" blue Staffy's for a long time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Well presumably all 87 listings on DOL are registered breeders and someone searching for a puppy could be forgiven for thinking that he/she was doing the right thing by purchasing from a registered breeder i.e. not getting from a pet shop or BYB. Even if you Google "Staffordshire Bull Terrier" with key words like "health issues", "health problems" - you only start getting useful information if you narrow the searches to Australia. "Skin problems" gives a tiny bit more but not much. It's only if you hop onto the DOL forum that you get more information but lots of people don't like internet chat fora. At the end of the day, if someone's already bought a puppy from a registered breeder, there's not much point making them feel bad. It's probably enough to tell them to keep an eye out for possible health problems that may or may not arise. If they haven't bought the puppy yet then there may be more room to move but let's face it, a lot of people like the dilute colours across a lot of breeds and dilutes show up in the litters produced by many breeders ... 'Unethical' is pretty subjective and an emotive word to be throwing around. Some might say 'unethical' can include being rude, uncivil and defaming others who are in the same industry. In the absence of a code of ethics prohibiting the breeding of dilutes, perhaps the most we could say is that it's just very irresponsible/undesirable/unwise to be deliberately breeding for blue ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 'Unethical' is pretty subjective and an emotive word to be throwing around. Some might say 'unethical' can include being rude, uncivil and defaming others who are in the same industry. In the absence of a code of ethics prohibiting the breeding of dilutes, perhaps the most we could say is that it's just very irresponsible/undesirable/unwise to be deliberately breeding for blue ... Firstly, breeding dogs under the ANKC banner is not an industry A hobby at best, an obsession is perhaps acceptable. Secondly the code of ethics which I think is an ANKC one as opposed to an individual state one? clearly states that breeders will breed only with the intention of improving the breed - the deliberate breeding of generations dogs which can not possibly have the correct pigment as required in the breed standard can't possibly be construed as an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) 'Unethical' is pretty subjective and an emotive word to be throwing around. Some might say 'unethical' can include being rude, uncivil and defaming others who are in the same industry. In the absence of a code of ethics prohibiting the breeding of dilutes, perhaps the most we could say is that it's just very irresponsible/undesirable/unwise to be deliberately breeding for blue ... Firstly, breeding dogs under the ANKC banner is not an industry A hobby at best, an obsession is perhaps acceptable. Secondly the code of ethics which I think is an ANKC one as opposed to an individual state one? clearly states that breeders will breed only with the intention of improving the breed - the deliberate breeding of generations dogs which can not possibly have the correct pigment as required in the breed standard can't possibly be construed as an improvement. i agree so why does the ankc allow puppies from blue to blue matings to be registered? eta and why do they allow sbt kennels to have the word blue in their name when clearly they are breeding for colour? Edited February 3, 2011 by Jaxx'sBuddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 i agree so why does the ankc allow puppies from blue to blue matings to be registered? Because no one has ever complained loudly enough? Because of the $$$$$$$$$$$$$ of rego fees? eta and why do they allow sbt kennels to have the word blue in their name when clearly they are breeding for colour? Devil's Advocate: My kennel name includes the word Black does that mean I'm breeding for Black (which isn't possible in a SBT anyway ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) i agree so why does the ankc allow puppies from blue to blue matings to be registered? Because no one has ever complained loudly enough? Because of the $$$$$$$$$$$$$ of rego fees? eta and why do they allow sbt kennels to have the word blue in their name when clearly they are breeding for colour? Devil's Advocate: My kennel name includes the word Black does that mean I'm breeding for Black (which isn't possible in a SBT anyway ) true about the Black . i just wish that we could tell new puppy buyers to go to a registered breeder and know we were sending them to an ethical, checked out breeder eta i think the dollars do make a difference but when the governing body isn't worried about the betterment of the breed it isn't being a good role model for breeders Edited February 4, 2011 by Jaxx'sBuddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 i just wish that we could tell new puppy buyers to go to a registered breeder and know we were sending them to an ethical, checked out breeder I feel this way, too. It's kind of like: "Make sure you buy from a registered breeder – oh and make sure that breeder meets with the approval of x% of the dogzonline forum … " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 i just wish that we could tell new puppy buyers to go to a registered breeder and know we were sending them to an ethical, checked out breeder I feel this way, too. It's kind of like: "Make sure you buy from a registered breeder – oh and make sure that breeder meets with the approval of x% of the dogzonline forum … " it is very frustrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 i just wish that we could tell new puppy buyers to go to a registered breeder and know we were sending them to an ethical, checked out breeder I feel this way, too. It's kind of like: "Make sure you buy from a registered breeder – oh and make sure that breeder meets with the approval of x% of the dogzonline forum … ;)" :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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