corvus Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 See, that's what I think happens! When people have a dog they love, they are quick to tell anyone who cares to listen what breed they have and where they got it from and say how perfectly it has all worked out. I have spoken to several people at the park about their crossbreed dogs. Most came from shelters, but a few are DD and if I ask them why they got one they usually tell me the temperament of the dog they wanted, and that this cross was recommended to them by people that had them and also wanted that temperament, and that their dog has been just what they were after. You can't argue with that. They did research of a sort and got a dog that was everything they wanted. They don't know they could have got it in a purebred and if you told them they probably wouldn't believe you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Sigh. Have just heard back from friend that they are looking to get the dog from a breeder who tests for PRA, HD etc and is registered with the ALA, that I told them about. Then they proceeded to call me biased and crazy.I suppose it is a good outcome, but I still feel defeated. So over it. It's a touchy subject but if they really want a Labradoodle the ALA is the place to look. Breeders follow a COE, breed to a standard, dogs are health tested and they are working towards having the 'breed' recognised by the ANKC. There is a BIG difference between an ALA bred "Australian Labradoodle" and a BYB/puppy farmed/pet shop lab x poodle. Each to their own ...but your friend may change their mind when they are given a price :rolleyes: On the other hand to call you "biased and crazy" for trying to give them the facts is just plain rude, and for that I wouldn't bother with helping these people again. Let them find out the hard way. Plus I suspect that any ethical breeder, ALA member included is going to tell them much the same as you already tried to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) Sigh. Have just heard back from friend that they are looking to get the dog from a breeder who tests for PRA, HD etc and is registered with the ALA, that I told them about. Then they proceeded to call me biased and crazy.I suppose it is a good outcome, but I still feel defeated. So over it. It's a touchy subject but if they really want a Labradoodle the ALA is the place to look. Breeders follow a COE, breed to a standard, dogs are health tested and they are working towards having the 'breed' recognised by the ANKC. There is a BIG difference between an ALA bred "Australian Labradoodle" and a BYB/puppy farmed/pet shop lab x poodle. Each to their own ...but your friend may change their mind when they are given a price :rolleyes: On the other hand to call you "biased and crazy" for trying to give them the facts is just plain rude, and for that I wouldn't bother with helping these people again. Let them find out the hard way. Plus I suspect that any ethical breeder, ALA member included is going to tell them much the same as you already tried to. A former grooming client owns a male from a member of the ALA - they were always purebred owners and unfortunately the breeder who is a member of the ALA must have been a very smooth talker to suck this lady in. The conditions on the dog are unlike anything I have heard of from any breeder. HOWEVER when he was hip scored - he was TOO HIGH to breed on with and also a carrier of ???(forgot now) but this was not enough to have him desexed - they said that they will be right as long as they are very careful what he goes over.....so much for health testing. In my breed - that is enough for the chop - not without tears - but all over just the same. We had a falling out over this dog. Edited February 1, 2011 by Andisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 A former grooming client owns a male from a member of the ALA - they were always purebred owners and unfortunately the breeder who is a member of the ALA must have been a very smooth talker to suck this lady in. The conditions on the dog are unlike anything I have heard of from any breeder. HOWEVER when he was hip scored - he was TOO HIGH to breed on with and also a carrier of ???(forgot now) but this was not enough to have him desexed - they said that they will be right as long as they are very careful what he goes over.....so much for health testing. In my breed - that is enough for the chop - not without tears - but all over just the same. We had a falling out over this dog. Probably PRA. That would make him a "B". He could be bred safely to "A" (clear) bitches but with dodgy hips, I wonder why you'd bother. Its not like you shouldn't be able to find clear dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentchild Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Thanks for all the comments, have been very helpful and insightful. I am glad they have gone with the ALA, but to be honest I don't have very much faith in it, as I too have heard my fair share of horror stories regarding oodles that were supposedly from ALA breeders... :rolleyes: Each to their own ...but your friend may change their mind when they are given a price What I really cannot understand is, why would anyone pay pedigree price for a crossbred dog?? My brain just cannot process this logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Sigh. Have just heard back from friend that they are looking to get the dog from a breeder who tests for PRA, HD etc and is registered with the ALA, that I told them about. Then they proceeded to call me biased and crazy.I suppose it is a good outcome, but I still feel defeated. So over it. It's a touchy subject but if they really want a Labradoodle the ALA is the place to look. Breeders follow a COE, breed to a standard, dogs are health tested and they are working towards having the 'breed' recognised by the ANKC. There is a BIG difference between an ALA bred "Australian Labradoodle" and a BYB/puppy farmed/pet shop lab x poodle. Each to their own ...but your friend may change their mind when they are given a price On the other hand to call you "biased and crazy" for trying to give them the facts is just plain rude, and for that I wouldn't bother with helping these people again. Let them find out the hard way. Plus I suspect that any ethical breeder, ALA member included is going to tell them much the same as you already tried to. A former grooming client owns a male from a member of the ALA - they were always purebred owners and unfortunately the breeder who is a member of the ALA must have been a very smooth talker to suck this lady in. The conditions on the dog are unlike anything I have heard of from any breeder. HOWEVER when he was hip scored - he was TOO HIGH to breed on with and also a carrier of ???(forgot now) but this was not enough to have him desexed - they said that they will be right as long as they are very careful what he goes over.....so much for health testing. In my breed - that is enough for the chop - not without tears - but all over just the same. We had a falling out over this dog. That's sad :rolleyes: But keep in mind that some of the not so ethical purebred breeders would do the same.. Not defending DD's and their "breeders" at all, but I do think that ALA bred Labradoodles and your average DD are worlds apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 That's sad But keep in mind that some of the not so ethical purebred breeders would do the same..Not defending DD's and their "breeders" at all, but I do think that ALA bred Labradoodles and your average DD are worlds apart. Agree. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Thanks for all the comments, have been very helpful and insightful. I am glad they have gone with the ALA, but to be honest I don't have very much faith in it, as I too have heard my fair share of horror stories regarding oodles that were supposedly from ALA breeders... :rolleyes: Each to their own ...but your friend may change their mind when they are given a price What I really cannot understand is, why would anyone pay pedigree price for a crossbred dog?? My brain just cannot process this logic. Because people are stupid and gullible and like to believe that they get what they pay for. A bit like "rare blues staffies" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 How was their experience dealing with ALA breeders? Were they easily contactable and friendly to deal with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 People really don't get it. I thought my friends had it drilled into them enough and knowing how important the subject is too me that it would be second nature not to go to the pet shop or get an oodle, but one just bought a little something or other pet shop pup which cost more than one of my rare show Tollers. Apparantly because it has a 3 day gurantee on it means its all good, I just mentioned my dogs have a lifetime gurantee..... Another has a lab x poodle and has friends who just bred a "schnoodle" litter and wants a pup from them :rolleyes: These are otherwise intelligent people and I just don't what went wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentchild Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) How was their experience dealing with ALA breeders? Were they easily contactable and friendly to deal with? I didn't ask for much detail regarding their communication, but from what they said it seemed she was a very nice person who responded to them swiftly and promptly, told them the price of pups, all the testing she does, etc etc. I may be completely cynical, but I regard most breeders of DDs as having a well-rehearsed sales pitch. I certainly hope that isn't the case for this breeder. :rolleyes: Edited February 1, 2011 by silentchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aannie Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 This subject frustrates the bejeesus out of me, too. I found DOL when doing a search for a new pup and actually changed breeders due to the wonderful sound advice given here and am still waiting for a puppy when the original one should have been picked up 3 weeks ago!! When people ask where's my puppy and I tell them that I'm still waiting because I've switched to an ethical interstate breeder, I get the third degree about how can I be so sure it's an ethical breeder when I haven't physically been to visit and get asked the ins and outs of how I know it's not a puppy farm and when I try to convince them it's because of a. the fact I have done my research b. the fact that I've seen signed health certs for both parents c. the fact that the pup WILL be registered AND microchipped and d. because I've asked several questions, got answers AND have been asked several questions of myself! None of these things and many more wrong doings were perpetuated by my original local breeder but I get canned for going interstate!! They don't get the fact that I changed breeders is enough proof that I'm trying to do the right thing when it comes to purchasing a pet. :rolleyes: You can't win, Silent Child. You just can't win. I feel your pain but like any subject, you just can't educate some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 leave them be. Frankly I would have told them sorry I dont have any deaings with people that breed purely for profit and left it at that. If it works, great, if not well you said your piece and they still decided to pay through the nose for a crossbreed. Each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wags Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Long story short, a good friend of mine asked me to source him a labrador poodle cross. Of course as usual I go into full educational mode, trying as nicely as possible to carefully explain the benefits of getting a purebred from ethical breeders, alternative breeds to consider, health issues and costs relating to the oodly type crosses, where they come from, the truth about hybrid vigour, etc etc etc.. the whole shebang. Only to have myself called a breed snob, and to get off my high horse. It really frustrates me that simply giving out facts about DDs are simply dismissed all too often by the general public as us being 'breed snobs'. I've seen this happen so many times, and have had it happen to me so many times, and it is just so frustrating. How do you keep going about educating people when your facts are simply dismissed so easily?? I just feel so frustrated, this is really more a rant than anything else. :D Yes, you can sometimes see the eyes glaze over and the brick wall being built in front of you, yet they're the ones most likely to be on a registered breeder's waiting list with a tale of woe in the future. Honestly the number of shocking stories from clients who have been down this road, and with backyard breeders and puppy farmers, is heartbreaking. What upsets me most is the quality of life the puppies are presented with through indiscriminant breeding. The families have the opportunity of making an informed choice, but the puppies are not given any choice. In the old days most people had little heinz breeds running around the neighbourhood and desexing wasn't necessarily thought of as a natural process in owning a pet (I am quite long in the tooth I should advise). Because it was then more normal to allow pet dogs to run free and take their chances on the roads, to some degree, natural attrition did tend to produce hardy little dogs. BUT, with all the regulations we are now under when owning a pet, partbred breeding is much more controlled and subject to the ethics and discrimination of the breeder, whoever the breeder is and whether the breeding is intentional or not. Now that's a different matter altogether. Having explained the lack of natural attrition, I then point out to clients that no responsible registered breeder is going to let his/her dogs be used for partbred breeding, therefore the dogs used for oodle and other partbred breeding are going to be inferior in the first place, in any or every way, then two inferior dogs are being used to breed their beloved oodles which vastely increases the chances of having physical, mental or any other health problems or indeed problems. I have to admit that the majority see the logic and at least think about what I'm saying. If they choose to discount this information, then they are making an informed decision to go down a track which will very possibly see them waiting on a registered breeders list for a decent puppy in the future. We have done what we can do to try to assist them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Have a read of the Re puppy enquiry thread and you'll get a really big clue as to why people go down this path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shells Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Sigh. Have just heard back from friend that they are looking to get the dog from a breeder who tests for PRA, HD etc and is registered with the ALA, that I told them about. Then they proceeded to call me biased and crazy.I suppose it is a good outcome, but I still feel defeated. So over it. Do you know how much they are paying? Some people around here are paying between $2,500 and $3,000 for an "ALA approved" Labxpoodle. Have a read of the Re puppy enquiry thread and you'll get a really big clue as to why people go down this path. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frufru Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I have actually found that people looking for a "labradoodle" from ALA tend to be in it for the snob value - they pay huge amounts of money for these dogs and get very irritated if you refer to them as crosses. The modern world is all about the next trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missymoo Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Yup sounds familer, my SIL approached me where to get a Border Collie X Lab puppy (thier old one died) I told her everything I knew without trying to sound pompus, and she was really interested in looking at Labs etc but my BROTHER is the problem and insits it wil be a Xbred..cant educate those who dont want to be sadly.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentchild Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Do you know how much they are paying? Some people around here are paying between $2,500 and $3,000 for an "ALA approved" Labxpoodle At last check, they were going to pay around $2000 for the pup, so that sounds about right. Have a read of the Re puppy enquiry thread and you'll get a really big clue as to why people go down this path. I have been following that thread, and I have to say I agree with you and can understand why people go down that path. I can understand puppy buyers being ticked off about not getting information from breeders, but in this case all the help has been offered to the buyer on a silver plate, they just choose to dismiss it as snobbery. I agree with you frufru, it is an unfortunate situation all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirawee Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Yup sounds familer, my SIL approached me where to get a Border Collie X Lab puppy (thier old one died) I told her everything I knew without trying to sound pompus, and she was really interested in looking at Labs etc but my BROTHER is the problem and insits it wil be a Xbred..cant educate those who dont want to be sadly.. :D Easy then, if they are sure they only want a cross bred tell them to look in the pound/rescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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