A Rant!

[silentchild]

Long story short, a good friend of mine asked me to source him a labrador poodle cross. :rolleyes:

Of course as usual I go into full educational mode, trying as nicely as possible to carefully explain the benefits of getting a purebred from ethical breeders, alternative breeds to consider, health issues and costs relating to the oodly type crosses, where they come from, the truth about hybrid vigour, etc etc etc.. the whole shebang.

Only to have myself called a breed snob, and to get off my high horse.

It really frustrates me that simply giving out facts about DDs are simply dismissed all too often by the general public as us being 'breed snobs'. I've seen this happen so many times, and have had it happen to me so many times, and it is just so frustrating. How do you keep going about educating people when your facts are simply dismissed so easily??

I just feel so frustrated, this is really more a rant than anything else.

[megan_]

personally, I would focus on the need to find an ethical breeder and not focus on the whole "purebreed vs crossbreed" thing because if people have preconceptions about snobbery then this just cements it.

I have never heard of an ethical cross-breeder in my travels, so this would rule them out. I'd also ask questions about what they want in a dog and use this info to come up with a list of breeds.

[poodlefan]

Talk to him about HD, PRA and recommend he only buy one from someone who tests their breeding dogs for this.

Those breeders are out there but he'll hunt high and low to find one.

If he doesn't give a damn that his dog might be blind at 5 or be dead at 2 due to dodgy hips, then he's beyond help. He does know that 70% of them shed does he? My guess is not.

My guess is this person would care a great deal that he got a pup of good temperament that was not going to develop an inheritable disease, that would turn out to be what he expected. If he cares about that, he can be educated. You just have to sell it right.

I just love it when people think those who advocate purebred dogs are 'snobs' but they'll go and deliberately source a dog from two purebred parents. :rolleyes: Pity they don't understand that they don't get to pick which attributes each parents give to the pup.

Edited January 31, 2011 by poodlefan

[raz]

I just feel so frustrated, this is really more a rant than anything else. :rolleyes:

I feel your pain as it's happened to me as well. I'm now teetering on the edge of not actually caring anymore because people get something stuck in their heads about what they want to buy and no amount of help with breeders, advice or discussion is going to change it. Defeatist? Yep.

Edited January 31, 2011 by raz

[mita]

Long story short, a good friend of mine asked me to source him a labrador poodle cross. :rolleyes:

Of course as usual I go into full educational mode, trying as nicely as possible to carefully explain the benefits of getting a purebred from ethical breeders, alternative breeds to consider, health issues and costs relating to the oodly type crosses, where they come from, the truth about hybrid vigour, etc etc etc.. the whole shebang.

Only to have myself called a breed snob, and to get off my high horse.

You don't have to utter another word to him.

Just print out this article in the science section of the Guardian newspaper.

It contains a list of 'inventions' that their creator lived to regret. As a BIG mistake.

Point to the first one on the list. It's the Labradoodle.

The man who first created the labradoodle by crossing a lab with poodle to get a 'better' guide dog...tells how he so much regrets doing this & why And the avalanche of oodles that followed as people jumped on to the 'novelty' rather than 'wisdom' bandwagon.

He's quoted: All these backyard breeders have jumped on the bandwagon, & they're crossing any kind of dog with a poodle. They're selling them for more than a purebred is worth and they're not going into the backgrounds of the parents of the dogs. There are so many poodle crosses , having fits, problems with their eyes, hips and elbows, a lot have epilepsy. There are a few ethical breeders, but very, very few.

He says, years later, he's never & wouldn't own a labradoodle as a pet. 'No way!' he says, sounding shocked. His own pet is a p/b labrador called Rocky.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/nov...ors-idea-regret

Edited January 31, 2011 by mita

[Noelle]

I am exhausted from explaining about oodles too, and have practically given up the fight. Imagine my amazement, one day a woman approached me and one of my pure bred Lagotti, asking why I bought an oodle instead of a pure breed! She was full steam ahead until I got a word in edgeways, then told me she breeds poodles and has never heard of lagotto, she walked off red as a beetroot :rolleyes:

[silentchild]

Poodlefan and mita, sadly, I did. :rolleyes: I linked to that article about the inventor regretting the labrador cross, I referred them to the ALA breeders if they desperately wanted the fluffy oodle, who test for PRA etc, all the while telling them what they might expect and what they should ask for - but I get told to "listen to myself!"

Apparently I am just a crazy dog lady, what do I know.

[Andisa]

Just remind them that when things go wrong - you don't want to hear about it.

[Mystiqview]

Interesting.. Was talking to a vet on the weekend at the Pet Rescue day.

They are seeing an increases in HD, luxating patellas, Skin problems, cavoodles with heart and brain issues.. to name a few.

Wonder why????

She said, the owners eyes opened up when explained if the parents of each breed of their DD carry those issues.. it can still happen in the offspring.. DD's are not necessarily healthier than their pedigree cousins.

[Snout Girl]

I have been called a breed snob more than I care to remember :rolleyes:

Also, people tend to look at Bert (who has been unlucky and had health problems, not due to breeding just bad luck) and say 'thats why i dont want a purebred dog, too many health problems

[Andisa]

I am exhausted from explaining about oodles too, and have practically given up the fight. Imagine my amazement, one day a woman approached me and one of my pure bred Lagotti, asking why I bought an oodle instead of a pure breed! She was full steam ahead until I got a word in edgeways, then told me she breeds poodles and has never heard of lagotto, she walked off red as a beetroot :rolleyes:

I tell people if they are so set on the look of an oodle then why not check out the Lagotto and explain the benefits of going with a known breeder who health tests dogs...

I really feel that the Lagottos have missed the boat in trying to get this breed known to the general public when the oodles went crazy it was the perfect time to educate people on why pay pedigree prices for a crossbreed dog when the Lagotto has all the benefits of ....

I love Lagottos - one day....I will have one but that is a long way off.

[silentchild]

Sigh. Have just heard back from friend that they are looking to get the dog from a breeder who tests for PRA, HD etc and is registered with the ALA, that I told them about. Then they proceeded to call me biased and crazy.

I suppose it is a good outcome, but I still feel defeated. So over it.

[corvus]

I think it's hard for people to accept that dogs could be unhealthy considering they see so many dogs that seem perfectly healthy. Until you know someone who has a dog that needs ongoing medical care or management or have experienced it for yourself, it's hard to imagine it could happen to you. I have a sneaking suspicion there are lots of dogs out there that seem healthy from an outsider's view, but aren't. When I got my first dog, my family and I couldn't afford the initial outlay of a dog with papers and so I got a backyard bred corgi and even that stretched the budget. We knew that the breed was prone to back problems, but it always seemed like a shadow of a threat and one we couldn't do much about.

Personally, when people ask me about crossbreeds I say I don't know very much about them except that I've heard they can have health problems. I'm more comfortable discussing purebreeds and would just quietly steer the conversation back to breeds I can talk about with fondness and enthusiasm. I've never preached to anyone about dogs. If they won't listen to me carefully offering a very abbreviated selection of facts amounting to maybe three sentences they have asked me for on the basis that I'm doing a PhD on dogs, then they aren't going to want to hear the full story. :rolleyes: Softly softly. I find people are more willing to listen to positive things than negative things. If I can gush about something my enthusiasm is catching, but if I can't say anything nice, my dislike is not catching. It's uncomfortable to people. They don't want to know what makes me cross.

[OSoSwift]

If they don't want to hear it say okay no worries. If they get an oodle cross that ends up with problems, I told you so!! YEs it is bitchy but you will have every right. Tell them you don't know of any oodle breeders as I wouldn't have the foggiest who any where or where to find them.

Leave it to them, they may be people who need to learn for themselves.

[mita]

Sigh. Have just heard back from friend that they are looking to get the dog from a breeder who tests for PRA, HD etc and is registered with the ALA, that I told them about. Then they proceeded to call me biased and crazy.

I suppose it is a good outcome, but I still feel defeated. So over it.

I'd be over rude people who call you biased & crazy, when you've simply made a point that is the same as the creator of the 'breed' they're looking for. They can take or leave what information you gave. They chose to leave it.

You're quite right to just move on.

Edited February 1, 2011 by mita

[chran]

Thanks for the link mita. I for one would use it for good cause :rolleyes:

I'm steering a friend away from DD - got one already and wants another one of different type because they like the look of it. At least they can't call me breed snob since mine is a mutt (adopted).

[mita]

At least they can't call me breed snob since mine is a mutt (adopted).

Me, too, chran. Our dear old grandma dog was also designed by God (that is, a mutt). We loved her to pieces. The genuine mutts are just as much a joy as pets.

It's this business of deliberately taking one purebreed & mixing it with another, to produce a cutsey name. And accompanied by misinformation, like healthier than purebreeds, each dog has the 'best' of both breeds etc.

[jacqui835]

I think it's hard for people to accept that dogs could be unhealthy considering they see so many dogs that seem perfectly healthy. Until you know someone who has a dog that needs ongoing medical care or management or have experienced it for yourself, it's hard to imagine it could happen to you. I have a sneaking suspicion there are lots of dogs out there that seem healthy from an outsider's view, but aren't. When I got my first dog, my family and I couldn't afford the initial outlay of a dog with papers and so I got a backyard bred corgi and even that stretched the budget. We knew that the breed was prone to back problems, but it always seemed like a shadow of a threat and one we couldn't do much about.

Personally, when people ask me about crossbreeds I say I don't know very much about them except that I've heard they can have health problems. I'm more comfortable discussing purebreeds and would just quietly steer the conversation back to breeds I can talk about with fondness and enthusiasm. I've never preached to anyone about dogs. If they won't listen to me carefully offering a very abbreviated selection of facts amounting to maybe three sentences they have asked me for on the basis that I'm doing a PhD on dogs, then they aren't going to want to hear the full story. :rolleyes: Softly softly. I find people are more willing to listen to positive things than negative things. If I can gush about something my enthusiasm is catching, but if I can't say anything nice, my dislike is not catching. It's uncomfortable to people. They don't want to know what makes me cross.

One of our past family dogs was one of those - a dog who appeared very healthy on the outside but had some pretty serious health problems. He actually lived to be 12, but had seizures all his life and heart problems. He had a very unstable fearful temperament too, and I think he bit our whole family at least once, drawing blood on most occasions. Luckily he was only small, but it makes you think, 12 seems like a decent lifespan for a dog, but for a small (under 10kg), mixed breed, 12 years really isn't that long.

[Andisa]

I think it's hard for people to accept that dogs could be unhealthy considering they see so many dogs that seem perfectly healthy. Until you know someone who has a dog that needs ongoing medical care or management or have experienced it for yourself, it's hard to imagine it could happen to you. I have a sneaking suspicion there are lots of dogs out there that seem healthy from an outsider's view, but aren't. When I got my first dog, my family and I couldn't afford the initial outlay of a dog with papers and so I got a backyard bred corgi and even that stretched the budget. We knew that the breed was prone to back problems, but it always seemed like a shadow of a threat and one we couldn't do much about.

Personally, when people ask me about crossbreeds I say I don't know very much about them except that I've heard they can have health problems. I'm more comfortable discussing purebreeds and would just quietly steer the conversation back to breeds I can talk about with fondness and enthusiasm. I've never preached to anyone about dogs. If they won't listen to me carefully offering a very abbreviated selection of facts amounting to maybe three sentences they have asked me for on the basis that I'm doing a PhD on dogs, then they aren't going to want to hear the full story. :rolleyes: Softly softly. I find people are more willing to listen to positive things than negative things. If I can gush about something my enthusiasm is catching, but if I can't say anything nice, my dislike is not catching. It's uncomfortable to people. They don't want to know what makes me cross.

One of our past family dogs was one of those - a dog who appeared very healthy on the outside but had some pretty serious health problems. He actually lived to be 12, but had seizures all his life and heart problems. He had a very unstable fearful temperament too, and I think he bit our whole family at least once, drawing blood on most occasions. Luckily he was only small, but it makes you think, 12 seems like a decent lifespan for a dog, but for a small (under 10kg), mixed breed, 12 years really isn't that long.

12 yrs is a long time to live with a dog who is not a healthy - happy member of the family. I would much rather 8 yrs with a healthy, happy dog who is a pleasure to live with than 12 yrs with a dog who isn't.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Andisa

[mr.mister]

I remember when my aunt and uncle were looking for a dog - I excitedly steered them to DOL and the breed pages. They thanked me kindly and I figured that because they were intelligent, reasonable people, they would follow the advice I gave them.

Several months later I hear from them that they got an oodle from a breeder.

Over Christmas time, I tried gently to bring the subject up. I asked my aunt if she was aware that their dog had come from a puppy farm.

"Yes, of course!" was her answer "But a very highly recommended one!" :vomit:

I could shoot whoever gave her that advice.

So, I then asked her if she knew what happened to the parents of the pups that come from puppy farms. What conditions they live in.

She paused, admitted she didn't, then said she didn't want to know. Sigh.

It's true, people just don't want to hear the negatives. My aunt happily turns a blind eye to the fact that the parents of her dog live in shocking conditions, are not health tested, and are bred until they expire. I just don't understand how they made the mistake even after I showed them dol. :rolleyes: