nessa704 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Sorry if this seems like a very basic question but I'm new to the whole dog training/dog sports scene and was just after some advice. I have a 6 month old staffy who I am thinking about eventually getting into agility but I'm not too sure how the whole thing works. She has done some basic obedience/puppy pre school and can sit, drop and stay fairly reliably (recall however is pretty much non-existent with distractions!!). My question is should I be taking her to more obedience classes for a while and work on recall etc a bit more or would it be ok to start up agility lessons now? I know a few places do beginners lessons until the dogs are old enough to properly participate. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandybrush Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 you dont have to do obedience to do agility, a good recall would be handy, practise this at home and at the park and slowly increase distractions, i have a 5m leash you can borrow (i notice your in bris, me too) make recalls fun, throw treats about 1 m from you then start running, when the dog catches you throw more treats on the ground and start running again, only say "come" when they are coming. i do agility at bad, and not everyones dogs behave all the time, we do get runaways, its prob more embarrassing for the owners than anyone else the beginners can work on leash so you can do the i think its 6 or 8 week beginner course at bad on leash while you practise your recalls at home ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 It depends what is offered around your area. Some agility clubs say you have to have a certain level of obedience. Personally, I would be working on that recall and focus work, otherwise you're going to have a hard time training off-lead with distractions and getting her to concentrate on you rather than everything else going on around her. If your chosen agility club does foundation work on-lead for beginner dogs, then you might consider starting agility classes once she's old enough, but also work on her recall/focus concurrently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hi nessa704 - welcome to the forum There is no short answer! You definitely need a lot of reliable off leash control before you start doing agility. Most handlers that are new to the sport are desperate to work their dogs over obstacles but it's worth remembering that you spend 90% of an agility competition run running between the obstacles! I didn't start my Dalmatian in agility until he was 2 because he lacked the mental and physical maturity - if they learn that they can run out of the ring it's not an easy thing to re-train. However, by the time I started with Ziggy he was really focussed, I started off leash with him straight away and he picked it all up very quickly. My current pup will start agility when she hits 12 months because she is extremely focussed and is reliable off lead at age 5 months. There is so much you can do before you touch a piece of equipment - teaching your dog how to learn is really important as is finding out what motivates your dog - food, toys, tug, praise etc Personally I do obedience and agility with my Dally and plan to do obedience, agility and retrieving with my pup. Some people prefer to focus on one sport - it's your choice but you still need control no matter what discipline you compete in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Susan Garrett spends 12 to 14 months with her dogs on foundation work before she lets them near any agility equipment. You want a really good stay in sit or stand position (stand is faster), and then you want the dog to bolt from that position to the place you indicate so you need good foundation handling ie a way of communicating with your dog where you want it to go. And you need really good recall so the dog will come to you when you call it instead of doing this fun thing over here (my dog loves being up high so the dog walk and scramble are major distractions for her). It really helps with rewarding good work if you have a great game of tug, and your dog will chase the tug toy and fetch it to you. Ball not so great because it doesn't stay where you throw it and you need that when you're trying to reward position eg teaching weaves. And then there is general doggy body awareness of where its body is and how to run with you and not into you and trip you up. So lots of running and loose heeling off lead, and a bit of step through the ladder rungs, and going backwards, and pivoting with front paws on a phone book etc. I started at club doing basic "sequencing" ie a series of obstacles which was fun but not particularily helpful, especially when trying to learn weaves or handling (how to send the dog where you want). You need to be able to point to that obstacle there and send the dog to it without having to run all the way there yourself, while you run to the next place and direct the dog to the next obstacle, and the dog has to come back, not stop and eat possum poo. I found very helpful, the Susan Garrett DVDs, especially crate training, and 2x2 weaves really helpful and the Greg Derrett first two dvds "Agility Foundation Training" and its sequel, "Great Dog, Shame about the Handler". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 If it makes any difference, your dog is too young to be training on "proper" agility equipment so she'd only be eligible for "pre-agility" classes. Like show jumping, control on the flat must come before the animal starts training on obstacles. You need focus and control first. My advice is to start by seeing what's offered in your area. However, there's no reason why you can't do both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMAK Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 i would build up more obedience if you are thinking of competing in agility.. i often see really fast agile dogs running who do great course work but there recall and stays are pretty hopeless but agility is all about fun! A recall and strong stays and focus work will do your dog good, being off lead and at a distrance gives your dog the oppertunity to explore if you don't have the realiable basics it gets you frustrated when you dogs doesn't respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Coming from a strong obedience background I'm glad I got reliable off leash control and reliable stays down pat before we started agility. We also have done a lot of work on building focus and drive. Just less things you need to train when you do start agility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 AT our club you cannot start agility until the dog is 14 months old and you have to pass a basic obedience test to be allowed into the beginner agility class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Our club is introducing a foundation agillity class - ie for all the dogs too young to start on the obstacles, or need building up athletically. Woo hoo. There won't be any obstacles, jumps and stuff, but there will be the phone book stuff. You can also teach hand touch and targetting as a preliminary to teaching "contacts" or making sure your dog lands on the yellow "contact" every time. Free shaping is also helpful skill for your dog to have eg trick training with or without a clicker. If you decide to do a lot of obedience heelwork - remember to practice all the moves on both sides because if you want to do agility, you need to be confident with the dog on either your left or your right - not just the left all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 A good recall is essential for agility, a good stay is also handy As mentioned, your pup is too young to start proper agility training but there is a lot of preparation you can do that makes it easier and quicker to learn the obstacles and sequencing. Whether you have to do proper obedience first depends on the club - my club does not have a prerequisite obedience component. * know your dog's favourite reward - having both a food and a toy reward is beneficial. Tug is seen as the ideal toy reward at the moment, though mine prefers thrown toys * circle work/shadow handling * shaping of any behaviours * targeting (hand touches etc) * rear end awareness exercises - walking through a ladder, 'elephant trick', walking backwards * sending ahead of you to a toy or target * focussing forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Coming from a strong obedience background I'm glad I got reliable off leash control and reliable stays down pat before we started agility. We also have done a lot of work on building focus and drive.Just less things you need to train when you do start agility. A lot of serious obedience dogs have problems working on both sides though when they start agility. Something to factor in to it. My dogs have great stays, focus, drive etc and we only do a few minutes of obedience a day and don't attend formal classes. Personally, I find formal obedience classes that go for an hour very boring :rolleyes: . To the OP - there is a free shipping DVD at cleanrun at the moment called the Sporting Puppy (or something like that) that is apparently very good. You can - and should - work on focus and handling skills now. Too many people focus on the obstacles but in my very limited experience, that's the easy part which most dogs get pretty quickly. The focus and control is another thing though... Unfortunately. many clubs make you go through a lot of obedience levels before you are allowed to start agility and don't let you just pass a "suitable focus and control" type test as a pre-cursor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Coming from a strong obedience background I'm glad I got reliable off leash control and reliable stays down pat before we started agility. We also have done a lot of work on building focus and drive.Just less things you need to train when you do start agility. A lot of serious obedience dogs have problems working on both sides though when they start agility. Something to factor in to it. My dogs have great stays, focus, drive etc and we only do a few minutes of obedience a day and don't attend formal classes. Personally, I find formal obedience classes that go for an hour very boring . To the OP - there is a free shipping DVD at cleanrun at the moment called the Sporting Puppy (or something like that) that is apparently very good. You can - and should - work on focus and handling skills now. Too many people focus on the obstacles but in my very limited experience, that's the easy part which most dogs get pretty quickly. The focus and control is another thing though... Unfortunately. many clubs make you go through a lot of obedience levels before you are allowed to start agility and don't let you just pass a "suitable focus and control" type test as a pre-cursor. :rolleyes: My little girl (9 months) has done very little formal obedience (nil in class), but has the best recall of all 3 of my dogs (and the other two will come almost regardless of what they are doing), has a good stay and understands most handling cues. I don't think you need 'obedience' to do agility, but you do need similar foundations and a good relationship with your puppy for any sport you want to play. There is no reason you can't do either or both, you just need to make sure there is balance in whatever it is you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Personally, I'd always recommend at least one level of club based training before starting "proper" agility classes. I'd do it to accustom my dog to focussing on me with other dogs around - that can be a real challenge with some dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Personally, I'd always recommend at least one level of club based training before starting "proper" agility classes. I'd do it to accustom my dog to focussing on me with other dogs around - that can be a real challenge with some dogs. Absolutley, being around other dogs is an important part of their socialisation - obedience, agility or anything else. Although I don't think they need to necessarily be 'in' class. I've been lucky. Wikki - the girl I mentioned above, has been at our clubs since she was 12 weeks old so it is nothing for her to see other dogs racing around and ignore them. She just hangs out with us and is rewarded for focussed behaviour. She also spends time hanging out beside the ring at every trial she goes to and works around the dogs waiting their turn (in the same way that they all do so we are not in the road.) There are quite a few puppies around at the moment and they are all doing the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessa704 Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Thanks everyone for all your advice. I think I will do a bit more general obedience with her (a trip to the dog park really brings home how much work her recall needs!!!) and then look into starting agility. I've seen some agility clubs around here that do beginners/underage classes so her age shouldn't be a problem Thanks again for all your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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