corvus Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) Yes, they work as both. It's like the dog saying "Everything I do next is pretend", but the other dog has the option to respond before the dog does anything more. I guess I don't generally think of it as an invitation because mostly when I see it the invitation is secondary. Like someone cracking a joke as an icebreaker is not just a joke, but also an invitation to engage. The invitation is secondary because it's assumed. Either you laugh at the joke, thus signalling your willingness to engage, or you don't laugh, signalling your unwillingness to engage. Maybe a bit of a far-fetched analogy, but it's one that seems to fit to me. Like an icebreaker joke, I most often see play bows where the receiver is a wee bit tense or uncertain, but still showing interest in engaging, and when a situation almost got too serious for everyone's comfort, and when "kidding around" behaviour is being acted out with more seriousness than usual, and to gloss over a faux pas, and of course as an invitation to engage in a friendly interaction. Here's Kivi using it as an appeasement gesture: He's like "I was just kiddin' around, Pen." He would certainly play with her if it had been interpreted by her as a play invitation. He also uses head tosses as both appeasement signals and play invitations. In this photo he'd tried a head toss first to invite play and Penny responded with the "Don't." look. Then he play bowed and she lifted her lip at him. At that point he cut his losses and backed out with another head toss or two. Smart puppy. ETA Actually, I think he wasn't inviting play with the first head toss. Penny didn't like being crowded when going through a small space like the baby gate. Now that I think about it I seem to remember he came through the gate with her with bouncy puppy enthusiasm and when he saw she was looking like she might snark at him he did the head toss. Edited January 30, 2011 by corvus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Great pic and post Corvus! I can't see your all your pics Lollipup, we've had a major dip in power so some pics aren't loading for me on 3G. But I was going to say a play bow usually has front legs widely splayed and the mouth open and relaxed. I also often see a greeting bow which is when front legs are close together and mouth is closed but the dog is relaxed. It's like a stretch but different . Mark Bekoff's book The Emotional Lives of Animals is a great book that may help you. There's also the study done on dogs recognizing different types of growls ie play as distinguished from keep away. Can't post a link as computer is too slow to find it atm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 There's also the study done on dogs recognizing different types of growls ie play as distinguished from keep away. Can't post a link as computer is too slow to find it atm! Is it this one by Miklosi's group? Animal Behaviour 79 (2010) 917–925. ‘The bone is mine’: affective and referential aspects of dog growls Tama´ s Farago´ a, Pe´ ter Pongra´ cz a, *, Friederike Range b, 1, Zso´ fia Vira´ nyi c, 2, A´ da´ m Miklo´ si a A number of species are considered to use functionally referential signals such as alarm calls or food- related vocalizations. However, this particular function of communicative interaction has not previously been found in canids. We provide the first experimental indication that domestic dogs, Canis familiaris, rely on context-dependent signals during interspecific agonistic encounters. We recorded several sequences of growls from dogs in three different contexts: during play, guarding a bone from another dog, and reacting to a threatening stranger. We analysed the acoustic structure of the growls and additionally performed playback tests in a seminatural food-guarding situation. We found that play growls differed acoustically from the other two (agonistic) types of growls, mainly in their fundamental frequencies and formant dispersions. Results of the playback experiment showed that food-guarding growls deterred other dogs from taking away a seemingly unattended bone more effectively than growls recorded in the threatening stranger situation. We ruled out an effect of the signaller’s body weight on the subjects’ responses. These results provide the first evidence of context specificity of agonistic vocalizations in the dog. We discuss the possible aspects of honesty and deception through acoustic modulation of growls. Beckoff's book is next on my list of books to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipup Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 Beckoff's book is next on my list of books to buy. :D you must have a very interesting library!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 There's also the study done on dogs recognizing different types of growls ie play as distinguished from keep away. Can't post a link as computer is too slow to find it atm! Is it this one by Miklosi's group? Animal Behaviour 79 (2010) 917–925. ‘The bone is mine’: affective and referential aspects of dog growls Tama´ s Farago´ a, Pe´ ter Pongra´ cz a, *, Friederike Range b, 1, Zso´ fia Vira´ nyi c, 2, A´ da´ m Miklo´ si a A number of species are considered to use functionally referential signals such as alarm calls or food- related vocalizations. However, this particular function of communicative interaction has not previously been found in canids. We provide the first experimental indication that domestic dogs, Canis familiaris, rely on context-dependent signals during interspecific agonistic encounters. We recorded several sequences of growls from dogs in three different contexts: during play, guarding a bone from another dog, and reacting to a threatening stranger. We analysed the acoustic structure of the growls and additionally performed playback tests in a seminatural food-guarding situation. We found that play growls differed acoustically from the other two (agonistic) types of growls, mainly in their fundamental frequencies and formant dispersions. Results of the playback experiment showed that food-guarding growls deterred other dogs from taking away a seemingly unattended bone more effectively than growls recorded in the threatening stranger situation. We ruled out an effect of the signaller’s body weight on the subjects’ responses. These results provide the first evidence of context specificity of agonistic vocalizations in the dog. We discuss the possible aspects of honesty and deception through acoustic modulation of growls. Beckoff's book is next on my list of books to buy. That's it! Thank you! You'll enjoy Beckoff's book! It has a whole chapter on play in animals btw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) . Edited January 30, 2011 by Greytmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I saw the title and though oh! Corvus changed her DOL name No help from here sorry! I only understand dog academics up to a point. Now THAT is a compliment! Ha! I missed that one. I'll take THAT as a compliment, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I will just add that Temple Grandin believes that one aspect of play is for the dogs to practice being the submissive and being dominant. Mostly dogs are not all submissive or all dominant; they are submissive in some situations or ages, or with certain others and vice versa re dominance. Play is an opportunity to pracitce both these things. Have you noticed how dogs often take turns in play? one will be the chaser and then it will be the chased. and you can see it with wrestling too. Temple thinks that is an example of how they practice. I know my dog Digby when he is having his turn of being dominant in play with Delta will be more dominant than in any other part of his life. He does seem to relish the opportunity That is just some food for thought for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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