C.c.c. Qld's New Breeder Accredited System

[goldchow]

DogsNSW are supposdely putting an 'Accredited Breeder" scheme together, also in response to animal lib & RSPCA demands.

[WreckitWhippet]

DogsNSW are supposdely putting an 'Accredited Breeder" scheme together, also in response to animal lib & RSPCA demands.

I thought it was already up and running, the details were published in one of the Journals last year.

[SwaY]

Or how about they actually enforce the rules and regulations that are already available to them to start with and see if that sorts some of them out.

I agree enforce the rules you already have in place.

[oakway]

Or how about they actually enforce the rules and regulations that are already available to them to start with and see if that sorts some of them out.

I agree enforce the rules you already have in place.

You will have no arguments with anybody over that.

[Erny]

Or how about they actually enforce the rules and regulations that are already available to them to start with and see if that sorts some of them out.

I agree enforce the rules you already have in place.

You will have no arguments with anybody over that.

Why aren't they, though?

[goldchow]

Re NSW Accredited Breeder sysrem I think they are still trying to sort out the finer details.

DogsQ enforcing the existing COE would have been a much more acceptable solution in my books instead of creating a two tier membership system. I have no interest in applying for Accredition considering I've been doing all, and more, than their new system requires for 30 years because I assumed that was what being registered with a state control required.

[SwaY]

Or how about they actually enforce the rules and regulations that are already available to them to start with and see if that sorts some of them out.

I agree enforce the rules you already have in place.

You will have no arguments with anybody over that.

Why aren't they, though?

That's the million dollar question.

It they did there would be less of a reason to have the Breeder Accredited System.

- Are the ethical breeders being made to feel that they are less of a breeder by not being an Accredited Breeder?

Yes, some feel they need to pay up to stand away from the not so ethical breeders, This isn't always the case, as some not so ethical breeders are also in the Accredited Breeder program standing beside them.

[SwaY]

I have no interest in applying for Accredition considering I've been doing all, and more, than their new system requires for 30 years because I assumed that was what being registered with a state control required.

I have said this in another thread, If they want something that makes the good breeders stand out why don't this issue an award or a membership themselves - Not buy it, it is issued. Money can buy anything.

ANKC would pick and chose who got approved - im not sure how they would do it, to me it has more merit then buying the Label of "Accredited Breeder"

[Swanbrook]

I have no interest in applying for Accredition considering I've been doing all, and more, than their new system requires for 30 years because I assumed that was what being registered with a state control required.

I have said this in another thread, If they want something that makes the good breeders stand out why don't this issue an award or a membership themselves - Not buy it, it is issued. Money can buy anything.

ANKC would pick and chose who got approved - im not sure how they would do it, to me it has more merit then buying the Label of "Accredited Breeder"

I started this thread because i was indeed confused with the new system and breeders interpretation of it. Personally i always believed the breeder who shows their dogs and wins rewards for doing so over and over with numerous dogs was accreditation enough as this is one of the factors i used when searching for my dogs. But i have learned that not all breeders show their animals. Their are dogs in kennels around owned by breeders who resent the show scene and its competitiveness and stay clear of it that own some very exceptional dogs. They also dont run other fellow members or their practises down. They are more concerned with their own animals and couldn't give a rats bum about what old misses whoever that has been doing whatever for 30 years is doing. They Breed to keep! then place their remaining puppies with homes they trust. Yes as a member of the cccq/dogs Qld i wish they didn't start this new system and had of just policed the one we had. But their were nobody to do the policing.Well maybe now with this new system they the breeders who become accredited and mentors are the ones going out and inspecting all your kennels. How are you all going to feel about that?

What are you going to do if one of these cunning puppy mill accredited breeders come to inspect your kennel? Then condemns it for what ever reasons? I think throwing off at those accredited is also very silly and perhaps if you know something about a shonky breeder you should have made your case before now. Why dont we clean up our system? Why do breeders not come forward and expose those doing the wrong things? In my mind if you know or see and keep it to yourself you are as BAD as the offender!!! I hope the new system does work and finds every single breeder who is outside the Rules and names , shames, and expells them all. THEY ARE COMING and the sooner the better.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Swanbrook

[Erny]

Personally i always believed the breeder who shows their dogs and wins rewards for doing so over and over with numerous dogs was accreditation enough ...

For the most part this only really proves conformation though.

[goldchow]

I among many other registered CCC members often questioned why members of the executive or someone at their direction, with the know how on how dogs should be kept etc didn't undertake the occasional 'inspection', they'd only have to pay one or two breeders a visit every three or four years to show that they really were going to check out their members. I don't agree with other breeders checking on breeders, certainly not under this system anyway.

I personally couldn't see a problem with this and I don't believe most reputable registered breeders would either.

The CCC has always emphatically stated that they are merely a registry for purebred dogs and nothing more.

Going to lots of shows doesn't necessarily mean they are good breeders, showing isn't everyones cup of tea and there are many who would like to particpate more but things like work & family committments make it difficult.

[Sandra777]

Why dont we clean up our system? Why do breeders not come forward and expose those doing the wrong things? In my mind if you know or see and keep it to yourself you are as BAD as the offender!!!

Have you read ANY of the posts here from people who have said they have tried to expose those doing the wrong things? Almost without exception the canine controls will do nothing. How are people meant to act if those with the responsibility to police these things won't???

[Erny]

Why dont we clean up our system? Why do breeders not come forward and expose those doing the wrong things? In my mind if you know or see and keep it to yourself you are as BAD as the offender!!!

Have you read ANY of the posts here from people who have said they have tried to expose those doing the wrong things? Almost without exception the canine controls will do nothing. How are people meant to act if those with the responsibility to police these things won't???

Hhhhhmmmmm ..... Then what can be done? What is needed?

[Bullbreedlover]

Why dont we clean up our system? Why do breeders not come forward and expose those doing the wrong things? In my mind if you know or see and keep it to yourself you are as BAD as the offender!!!

Have you read ANY of the posts here from people who have said they have tried to expose those doing the wrong things? Almost without exception the canine controls will do nothing. How are people meant to act if those with the responsibility to police these things won't???

Hhhhhmmmmm ..... Then what can be done? What is needed?

Push for the Canine Control exec members to be elected annually and take away the RASQ as was tried to be introduced a few years ago but it didnt happen.

Make them accountable for the running of DogsQld and ensure they play by the rules. It can be done but it is a huge task.

[Erny]

Push for the Canine Control exec members to be elected annually and take away the RASQ as was tried to be introduced a few years ago but it didnt happen.

Make them accountable for the running of DogsQld and ensure they play by the rules. It can be done but it is a huge task.

I can well imagine it would be a huge task. Who would be able to start it? You? Would you begin the ball rolling Stonebridge?

[Bullbreedlover]

Push for the Canine Control exec members to be elected annually and take away the RASQ as was tried to be introduced a few years ago but it didnt happen.

Make them accountable for the running of DogsQld and ensure they play by the rules. It can be done but it is a huge task.

I can well imagine it would be a huge task. Who would be able to start it? You? Would you begin the ball rolling Stonebridge?

If I could I would!

Sadly I dont think many Queenslanders would be up to wanting an ex kiwi to try to save the Qld doggy world.

[Erny]

Lol .... we are multi-cultural Country, Stonebridge. I very much doubt that being a Kiwi would be enough for anyone rejecting some excellent assistance and re-direction.

But then, if not yourself ..... then who? I don't mean to be putting you personally on the spot, but it seems to me that there is a lot of discussion about what could be done and/or what should be done, but nobody/s who will put up their hands to take it on .... at least to start it off. Like (for example) someone who will provide precedents in the way of letters or whatever else it is that you (and others) suggest need to be done to get CC's to begin functioning at optimum. Of course, there is more to it than just letter writing, but I'm only giving a basic example.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Erny

[Swanbrook]

Push for the Canine Control exec members to be elected annually and take away the RASQ as was tried to be introduced a few years ago but it didnt happen.

Make them accountable for the running of DogsQld and ensure they play by the rules. It can be done but it is a huge task.

I can well imagine it would be a huge task. Who would be able to start it? You? Would you begin the ball rolling Stonebridge?

If I could I would!

Sadly I dont think many Queenslanders would be up to wanting an ex kiwi to try to save the Qld doggy world.

;)

But you can Stonebridge..thats the whole point. Its simple for all breeders to do what they can. JUST BECOME ACCREDITED AND A MENTOR...That gives you the chance to do everything on your watch. But its the same with all breeders...thats what i think this system is really all about. Breeders policing breeders. And who better for the job.

The badge of credibility.Who cares about kiwi or not. Thats a whole other argument. Besides its a job to big for any individual its a team project for sure.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Swanbrook

[Steve]

But you see part of the problem is that what some of us see as the "wrong thing" and why some have looked at the list of those accredited and said they shouldnt be there is because there is an idea of what is right and wrong which really has nothing what ever to do with what the code of ethics and the accredited breeder scheme dictates.

This is why when anyone feels a breeder is doing something they shouldnt and they report it that nothing is done - because they are still within the codes and criteria.

Think it through - how is any one going to come to your home and decide you flunk a property inspection when you are within all state requirements and mandatory codes and laws for breeding dogs? If you have a thousand dogs on your property and your kennels fit the local planning laws for breeding dogs, its all clean POCTA and mandatory codes are being complied with how is anyone whether that be a breeder/ mentor or not going to ping you? If they fail because a breeder thinks they simply have too many or not great examples of the breed etc the law suits are begging to happen. Sure they will be able to ping you if you have 50 dogs stacked up in crates in your family room but they could anyway so can the RSPCA and council. Whats more the Commercial Puppy Farmers Group AAPDB do exactly the same with site inspections and any minute now as we see the RSPCA get their way and breeders require licences that's part of the deal there too. Breeders on the Gold Coast have to have site inspections before they can breed a single puppy right now. How is any person going to prevent you owning 100 registered dogs and 500 non registered dogs ? How is any person going to prevent you from breeding cross bred dogs? The reality is you can be the biggest commercial puppy grower in the country and still be an accredited or non accredited purebred CC registered breeder.

Again Think it through - No Canine Association is going to be able to stop someone from selling bulk puppies to pet shops, or dealers. The requirement in the accredited breeder program is that they have to sight the mother - so what - pet shop owners will still pull up in cars and load them up with litter loads or they will still be dropped off in litter loads with no papers and sold under the partners name.

How is this accredited breeder program going to stop people from cross breeding or commercially breeding ?

I had an official moan about a registered breeder who was listed and advertised also as an AAPDB member. Nothing could be done. They are members here and advertise on dogz and currently on their website they have purebred puppies advertised which will come with no ANKC papers but AAPDB registration papers. Why? Because she is registered and breeds ANKC registered puppies and he is not registered and breeds non ANKC registered puppies - purebred and cross bred. their prefix is their business name and both are promoted on their website.

Then what - look at the criteria to be a mentor ;) .

At the end of the day. Canine welfare/rights drummers will pick it up and start changing what their advice has been in how to find a great purebred breeder and those who are not accredited will be seen as second class purebred registered breeders. You know those ones who only care about how the dogs look , who dont test, who keep dogs in filth [because they wont agree to be inspected] blah blah blah. The states who introduce an accredited scheme will promote those members over any others which already appears to be the case in Queensland and accredited will become what purebred registered has been via government and public perception. Why introduce it if the intent wasnt to promote one group over the other and for it to be worn as a badge of honour for the people who become accredited?

Its not going to go away - its a done deal - more and more will join it and you may as well accept it as a membership price increase and become accredited.

Arguments about how you wont join because you dont like who else is accredited and you dont want to be in the same group as them isnt going to make a single scrap of difference and to the rest of the world it makes no sense.We are all already part of a group which has members given the same status as us who are scuzz buckets and the more we shout about the rotten accredited ones the more obvious that is made to the public. If you are right and the shonky are there in the accredited scheme what do you think you are saying to the public about the other group?

There is a much bigger picture here than whether or not we want to be seen to be in a group of people some of whom we think are shonky. The more we rabbit on about how the bad guys have joined etc the more damage we do to the purebred dog world and the image of registered breeders overall.

Either chuck the whole thing in, give in and join up or be seen to be a lower class of registered breeder and as time goes on that perception will escalate - thats the choice your Canine Association has given you.

You could always really show them how much you feel about their decision by resigning and joining up in another state - Im sure the NT Canine Asscociation could use the membership increase. But would that be worth it? Is there really enough people against it to make any difference? Doubtful.

Personally I think they should have said all of our members are the antzpantz and bugger off but instead they said we know some of our members are rotten and we cant do anything about it so will create a higher class - stupid.

[goldchow]

Stonebridge a band of CCC members have constantly pushed for a democraticaly elected executive and twice we've been successful getting several referedum held, one only a few years ago, sadly the response and subsequent votes by Qld members was less than abysmal, virtually handing the current system a mandate to do anything they like.

Couldn't agree with you more but if the members can't be bothered voting there's not much anyone can do.