C.c.c. Qld's New Breeder Accredited System

[goldchow]

Agree with your post Steve and thats exactly whats going to happen. Think perhaps we all should apply for accreditation and then we're all back to square one, the rotten ones in with the good ones. ;)

[Jed]

Push for the Canine Control exec members to be elected annually and take away the RASQ as was tried to be introduced a few years ago but it didnt happen.

Make them accountable for the running of DogsQld and ensure they play by the rules. It can be done but it is a huge task.

I can well imagine it would be a huge task. Who would be able to start it? You? Would you begin the ball rolling Stonebridge?

After a lot of work by CCCQ members, there was a plebisite a few years ago, where members could vote for or against a new system of appointing councillors - ie, councillors would not be appointed by the RNA, they would be elected by the members.

only 30% approximately of the members voted, and the vote was for continuing with the current system.

So people are happy to talk about changing the system, and some are happy to do the huge amount of work involved - but when it comes to it, the members aren't interested.

[Steve]

Then the next question becomes if the members think its a rotten idea what - if anything do they do about it?

How many of QCCC members have written to say what they think of this and why?

Going to the Queensland website to the breeders section makes it look like the accredited breeders are all they are interested in. Its easy to find what you have to do to be accredited and much harder to find what you have to do to be a breeder.

Are the people who have spoken here who are QCCC members prepared to do ANYTHING to tell them they think its not right? In usual fashion knock anything thats new or different publicly accuse those who are accredited because their state CC told them this was the best thing they could do with some dreadful statements and accusations which slur everyone who is now accredited or who will become accredited but do nothing more.

If registered breeders resigned and went to another state for regsitration for a year or two, if registered breeders simply didnt pay their renewals for a year or two and then pay up the arrears later and sent a letter or protest it would be a better start than anything thats been suggested here. Why not go them on the fact that by introducing this new scheme they have affected the ability of the current members to be treated equally and treated them as second class which isnt what they signed up for and it affects their ability to trade equitably in an open market place. You can do that for free the ACCC will make them uncomfortable for you. You already know you are not going to change the way its managed - its been tried and tested and any change would take years. Have you written to CC about the things you believe the breeders you have bagged out here are guilty of so they can be chucked out? If you have they have been found not guilty because they are still there. Or will the extent of the protest and action be telling everyone you are better than this and you are above it all and you wont join because you dont want to be in the same pond as the low lives who havent been proven to be low lives because they are still endorsed as accredited breeders? Yet you are O.K. about remaining in a lower group which even your state CC says is full of pond scum and because of this they need an accredited group .

Cant you see how this looks and sounds to the outside world ? The world which is being educated to go to an accredited breeder and to see accredited breeders as superior? The world which dogs queensland is promoting this to including the RSPCA and government? The world which is reading this thread ? Give in now - join the accredited breeder scheme or walk away or take some real action or keep your thoughts to yourself because sitting on an internet forum and making the statements you are publicly isnt helping the image of ANY Dogs Queensland registered breeder and its doing more harm to purebred dogs.

If no one had joined you may have been able to make a point and have the public believe you but take a better look - no one is buying it. Do you really think many are going to hear you when you make statements about how belonging to group a doesnt make you more ethical blah blah blah? Why do you thinkpeopel join groups and why do you think the public look for them - no one cares about your philosophy on ethics and it makes you look bad. They will see anything you say as trying to avoid the fact that you cant join because you are doing the wrong thing and if you are not convincing me I dont like your chances if you really are able to join of convincing anyone else.

You have told everyone the accredited breeders have members who are blah blah blah and Dogs Queensland has told them that those who are not accredited are even worse than the accredited. Why else would they have introduced it? See the big picture? Give in, pay the money tick the boxes dogs Queensland has done you in.

they should have said "all of our members are held to a code of conduct and regualtions - they are all doing the right thing and if they are not their membership will be removed" but instead they said " We know some of our members are horrible and we cant do anything about that so we will make a new level where the public can be sure to find one thats a goodun" Then right on que you guys come in and tell everyone the people who are the gooduns suck too and how you wont join because you are much better than those who have - because YOU say so. One luv animal rights and anti purebreds.

Dogs NSW has given warning its coming so right here right now there is a small window of opportunity for people to write to the board and tell them what their objections are and tell them what they think before it becomes a reality and may be talk them out of it. How many do you think will?

Edited February 7, 2011 by Steve

[Lowenhart]

Then the next question becomes if the members think its a rotten idea what - if anything do they do about it?

How many of QCCC members have written to say what they think of this and why? Going to the Queensland website to the breeders section makes it look like the accredited breeders are all they are interested in. Its easy to find what you have to do to be accredited and much harder to find what you have to do to be a breeder.

Are the people who have spoken here who are QCCC members prepared to do ANYTHING to tell them they think its not right? In usual fashion knock anything thats new or different publicly accuse those who are accredited because their state CC told them this was the best thing they could do with some dreadful statements and accusations which slur everyone who is now accredited or who will become accredited b

Steve, what is your point? This paragraph is almost unreadable. Please use proper paragraphs, get to the point instead of having a block of text.

QCCC does not exist and never did. It was CCCQ is now trading as DogsQueensland.

The lack of support for the new system does provide a way of protest. Our "Clem 7" tunnel here in Brisbane has not been used due to the high cost of the tolls and the number of speed cameras. The lack of use has lead to the operators to heading into receivership.

[goldchow]

I don't know whether its still the same, haven't checked it out for some time now, but the CCCQ staff used to only give out names of any breeder members advertised in the journal.

When I queried this ( I can't ever remember having prospective puppy buyers contact me through the CCC(Q) ) it had something to do with privacy which I can understand, however when I was wanting to contact several breeders in NSW, who don't advertise in their journal either, DogsNSW staff, who couldn't have beem more helpful and professional contacted those breeders and passed my number on for them to please contact me.

I believe they can push their accreditation scheme and their accredited breeders as much as they like but while the general public remain unaware of who DogsQld is, what they do and where to find them, its nothing more than stroking other members ego and does nothing towards breeding better dogs.

If the DogsQld (and other state registries) were to make their monthly journal available to the general public, showing their accredited breeders in the Directory that could be a whole different ballgame.

Its the same old same old stuff, the state controls need to be more accessible to the public and need to be promoting their breeders to the public, not just to other members.

We're constantly inundated with puppy enquiries, every one of them through Dogzonline. We had people drive up from Brisbane just last weekend to see the dogs and have a talk about the breed, they had no idea about DogsQld but they'd read everything they could on Dogzonline and the websites there for relevant breeders.

[Steve]

Then the next question becomes if the members think its a rotten idea what - if anything do they do about it?

How many of QCCC members have written to say what they think of this and why? Going to the Queensland website to the breeders section makes it look like the accredited breeders are all they are interested in. Its easy to find what you have to do to be accredited and much harder to find what you have to do to be a breeder.

Are the people who have spoken here who are QCCC members prepared to do ANYTHING to tell them they think its not right? In usual fashion knock anything thats new or different publicly accuse those who are accredited because their state CC told them this was the best thing they could do with some dreadful statements and accusations which slur everyone who is now accredited or who will become accredited b

Steve, what is your point? This paragraph is almost unreadable. Please use proper paragraphs, get to the point instead of having a block of text.

QCCC does not exist and never did. It was CCCQ is now trading as DogsQueensland.

The lack of support for the new system does provide a way of protest. Our "Clem 7" tunnel here in Brisbane has not been used due to the high cost of the tolls and the number of speed cameras. The lack of use has lead to the operators to heading into receivership.

Oh well oops lack of sleep sorry I will remember to say CCCQ in future but Im glad you knew what I was talking about.

My point is that what is anyone doing about it?

And every time I take a look there are more stars on the website which tells me there is anything but a lack of support .

Edited February 7, 2011 by Steve

[Swanbrook]

I dont know about that because when you "Google Dogs online" well the "cccq/Dogs qld" are right there next to them. I think 1 person driveing up the coast is a worry and not much of a guide about anything. Do the right things,promote your own kennel and dogs, If they are good and you prove to clients the quality of your stock and your methods of breeding is produceing quality then what is there to worrie about. Politics and scare tactics from other organisations and there members are always going to rock your boat. Worry about you and your kennel and any inspections that may come along because it is in the rules already so doesnt matter what changes, they have always had the same powers as this new system.Lets see what they do with it and make our minds up then. And as far as how the members of Dogs Qld are going up here in qld we are fine and we are a cautious lot so anything takes a little time to sink in. All our breeders are Good people with years of experience behind them and will do the utmost for their animals no matter who or how things are changed in our system. Everything written here has been speculating. Has 1 breeder from any breed been visited? Even 1?

Also Dogs Qld does give out the names of breeders if you call them inquiring about puppies. In fact they will tell you to have a pen ready as they read them out over the phone.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Troy

[Bullbreedlover]

Swanbrook

As you become a regular DOLer you will come to realise that there will be people on this forum with whom you should just not worry about. It is just not worth it.

DOLer "Steve" is a lady called Julie. You didnt know that so I thought it best to let you know.

[Erny]

Swanbrook

As you become a regular DOLer you will come to realise that there will be people on this forum with whom you should just not worry about. It is just not worth it.

DOLer "Steve" is a lady called Julie. You didnt know that so I thought it best to let you know.

..... who are you referring to in that potentially collective statement, Stonebridge? Am I "just not worth it"? Is that what you are meaning?

[Bullbreedlover]

Swanbrook

As you become a regular DOLer you will come to realise that there will be people on this forum with whom you should just not worry about. It is just not worth it.

DOLer "Steve" is a lady called Julie. You didnt know that so I thought it best to let you know.

..... who are you referring to in that potentially collective statement, Stonebridge? Am I "just not worth it"? Is that what you are meaning?

Why dont you "read" my post properly Erny. And then get back to me.

[Steve]

Swanbrook

As you become a regular DOLer you will come to realise that there will be people on this forum with whom you should just not worry about. It is just not worth it.

DOLer "Steve" is a lady called Julie. You didnt know that so I thought it best to let you know.

Why thank you for the personal introduction Stonebridge. Perhaps I could return the favour.

[Bullbreedlover]

Swanbrook

As you become a regular DOLer you will come to realise that there will be people on this forum with whom you should just not worry about. It is just not worth it.

DOLer "Steve" is a lady called Julie. You didnt know that so I thought it best to let you know.

Why thank you for the personal introduction Stonebridge. Perhaps I could return the favour.

:D

[Erny]

Swanbrook

As you become a regular DOLer you will come to realise that there will be people on this forum with whom you should just not worry about. It is just not worth it.

DOLer "Steve" is a lady called Julie. You didnt know that so I thought it best to let you know.

..... who are you referring to in that potentially collective statement, Stonebridge? Am I "just not worth it"? Is that what you are meaning?

Why dont you "read" my post properly Erny. And then get back to me.

Ok - not a direct answer so I'm only presuming you are talking about Julie. But I see nothing in this thread from Julie that warrants such a disparaging comment - which is probably why I wasn't entirely sure who you were running down.

ETA: The comments in this thread have a nasty feel to them again :D. Are you breeders?

Edited February 8, 2011 by Erny

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Swanbrook

As you become a regular DOLer you will come to realise that there will be people on this forum with whom you should just not worry about. It is just not worth it.

DOLer "Steve" is a lady called Julie. You didnt know that so I thought it best to let you know.

..... who are you referring to in that potentially collective statement, Stonebridge? Am I "just not worth it"? Is that what you are meaning?

Why dont you "read" my post properly Erny. And then get back to me.

Ok - not a direct answer so I'm only presuming you are talking about Julie. But I see nothing in this thread from Julie that warrants such a disparaging comment - which is probably why I wasn't entirely sure who you were running down.

ETA: The comments in this thread have a nasty feel to them again . Are you breeders?

Totally agree Erny.

People need to understand that by making disparaging remarks towards the MDBA is also making those disparaging remarks towards the 1000+ MDBA members, some of which are members of this forum.

[Lesley]

I've been a Dogsqld for longer than I care to think about.

I refused to join because the people who have joined include dodgy breeders and puppy farms.

I don't want to be associated with people like that, thanks.

Once Dogsqld find out how to differentiate the ethical breeders from the others, I might join. But there is no way to do that, and a scheme where you pay your money, make promises for the future and don't have to do much, but are somehow supposed to be perceived as better than others doesn't do much for me

JMHO. Maybe others in your breed feel the same way.

And please don't think I am suggesting you are dodgy. I am not, but the dodgy ones fell over each other to become "accredited".

Edited to add - the regulations for this are the regulations which ALL breeders should have been following since they began breeding.

:D :D

So very well said Jed!

And you are right, it is the association to the unethical that puts many off being involved in many things.

Even on DOL breeders forums, there are many unethical breeders listed just like with the CCCQ and associated interstate bodies.

But how does one eliminate the skanks of society?

[Steve]

But a large part of this is about who is to judge who is and who is not "ethical" What is and is not ethical?

Each and every one of the people who you see and feel are making registered breeders look bad believe they are MORE ethical.

They have signed up for this to prove they are.

According to the criteria everyone who has so far been accepted as accredited breeders have agreed to do things over and above what other registered breeders have agreed to do within the standard code of ethics.

They have been accepted as members and remain members. They may be being judged as lacking and unethical by some but according to the association they have been judged to be more likely to be doing things ethically correct according to the CC definition than those are who have not agreed to join.

Clearly their definition of what is ethical is different to what some others think is ethical but a code is used to describe what the association feel are the important things to address and articulate for their members on a minimum level.Members of that group agree to than minimum level and many [hopefully most] operate under a much higher level.

Biases and beliefs get in the way of observing the objective truth. If you believe a) and b) contradicts that, you'll ignore b) even if it gives you a more accurate representation of reality.

Say you go shopping and interact with cashiers all day. Nine are neutral or semi-pleasant. The tenth is a horrible with someone giving you tons of attitude. A friend later says, what's up with cashiers? And you say, I know - I had one today who...and the other nine go right out of your mind.

What is being said here makes little sense and it really doesnt do registered breeders many favours in the PR department.

If you want to be a good cop do you refuse to become a cop because some are crooks? If you want to become a priest do you refuse because some have been exposed as being rotten.

So rather than focusing on the people who you feel are "unethical" according to your beliefs, biases and values personally who have put their hand up I think the focus of the discussion needs to change if we are to honestly look at the scheme and to be given any credibility for anyone watching who is trying to understand it all.

Ive already said I think the whole thing is a mistake because it has made two levels of membership which makes the members who choose not to be accredited as lesser members.

But its done - its there so if we can forget for just a moment about the breeders who have signed up who some of us feel are unethical according to their own criteria is it possible to look at the actual code.

If everyone who had joined was considered to be ethical and it was cost free would Queensland breeders have any objections left to joining? Is there anything in there which they feel is out of line with what they think should be in there?

I can understand if someone decides not to join on a matter of principal because they feel the introduction of the program was detrimental to the purebred dog world and the PR of registered breeders, or they cant or dont want to agree to a particular criteria or two but to say out loud the reason you wont join is because you dont want to be in the same pond as the unethical ones who have joined and thats your only reason is going over like a bomb and making it look like the old pond is even worse.

If you constantly tell the public that there are rotten ones in the group being promoted as being prepared to agree to more than those who are already there what does that say about the old group - your group? Especially when the CC seemed to have felt that they had some members who were really getting it wrong and they needed to create the new group to allow the cream to float to the top.

Again I think its introduction was the wrong way to go but its done and now it is if we are to consider the greater good,the bigger picture, then probably the best thing is for every Queensland breeder to join or at the very least stop talking about not wanting to join because rotten breeders have joined.

[Rebanne]

People need to understand that by making disparaging remarks towards the MDBA is also making those disparaging remarks towards the 1000+ MDBA members, some of which are members of this forum.

totally disagree, comments about an organisation do not automatically include their members or employee's. I disaprove of a lot of things the RSPCA does but that does not include the vast majority of the people connected with them.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

People need to understand that by making disparaging remarks towards the MDBA is also making those disparaging remarks towards the 1000+ MDBA members, some of which are members of this forum.

totally disagree, comments about an organisation do not automatically include their members or employee's. I disaprove of a lot of things the RSPCA does but that does not include the vast majority of the people connected with them.

you can disagree all you want but as a MDBA member i can hold this as my opinion.

i am sure there are other members who feel the same way i do.

eta. there are a lot of people in this thread arguing against the accredited breeder scheme because THEY think some breeders on it are unethical, but by who's standards?

certainly not the CCCQ's. so those people are having a go at the CCCQ and the breeders in the accredited breeder scheme even the breeders who they deem aren't dodgy.

so in a public forum where anyone can get the results if they google, you are all saying that the system should not be trusted. so a puppy buyer reads this and then goes to a pet shop or a byb because who can they trust?

any negative comments against ANY member of an organisation affects ALL members, which includes ALL CCCQ members and ALL MDBA members

Edited February 8, 2011 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[oakway]

Look..........as I have said before, every registered breeder in Queensland go and pay the fee and become accredited.

What will happen........we will have given Dogs Queensland a lot of money and all be on the same level.

When asked by puppy purchasers are you an accredited breeder ?, we can laugh and say every breeder in Queensland is an accredited breeder even the puppy farmers.

What will be achieved in regards to breeding........nothing, as the same old breeders will still churn out the same old stuff as before with the word that I am an accredited breeder, and again,.............. Dogs Queensland received a lot of money.

Now what has the word accredited breeder achieved???????. Nothing !!!!!.

And many wonder why some of us are saying,.............. it won't work.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Look..........as I have said before, every registered breeder in Queensland go and pay the fee and become accredited.

What will happen........we will have given Dogs Queensland a lot of money and all be on the same level.

When asked by puppy purchasers are you an accredited breeder ?, we can laugh and say every breeder in Queensland is an accredited breeder even the puppy farmers.

What will be achieved in regards to breeding........nothing, as the same old breeders will still churn out the same old stuff as before with the word that I am an accredited breeder, and again,.............. Dogs Queensland received a lot of money.

Now what has the word accredited breeder achieved???????. Nothing !!!!!.

And many wonder why some of us are saying,.............. it won't work.

i agree this is a great tactic to use. level the playing field again

Edited February 8, 2011 by Jaxx'sBuddy