C.c.c. Qld's New Breeder Accredited System

[Bullbreedlover]

You know, I am getting to the stage that I really don't care anymore.

After what has happened in the Qld Dog world in last week leaves me wondering about so much along with so many others.

If we came up with stone cold evidence, you are asking for, the way the law is these days, we could be the ones that are in deep doo doo.

People have stated on this forum that they have come up with the evidence and nothing has been done about it.

Now that is not going to encourage others to do the same. Well it's not going to encourage me. I have stuck my neck out once to often over the years.

Someone else can stick theirs out this time.

Maybe someone that has a future in the dog world, not me as I am on the downward side of breeding.

At the moment I just don't care anymore.

I hear you Oakway

and yes I just dont care any more either at the moment.

I used to care.

We might be members but in reality we are just numbers.

I havent bred a litter in the time we have been in Aus and I may never do so but I have paid my membership money every year and have actively shown my dogs when I could. At the moment I just cant be bothered for numerous reasons. And it makes me really sad.

[Erny]

..... I think I'd at least be prepared to give something like this a go and see how it pans out rather than quitting before giving something a chance, regardless of how dubious I might be. What harm would there be in doing that?

[oakway]

You know, I am getting to the stage that I really don't care anymore.

After what has happened in the Qld Dog world in last week leaves me wondering about so much along with so many others.

If we came up with stone cold evidence, you are asking for, the way the law is these days, we could be the ones that are in deep doo doo.

People have stated on this forum that they have come up with the evidence and nothing has been done about it.

Now that is not going to encourage others to do the same. Well it's not going to encourage me. I have stuck my neck out once to often over the years.

Someone else can stick theirs out this time.

Maybe someone that has a future in the dog world, not me as I am on the downward side of breeding.

At the moment I just don't care anymore.

I hear you Oakway

and yes I just dont care any more either at the moment.

I used to care.

We might be members but in reality we are just numbers.

I havent bred a litter in the time we have been in Aus and I may never do so but I have paid my membership money every year and have actively shown my dogs when I could. At the moment I just cant be bothered for numerous reasons. And it makes me really sad.

Well to me, it's getting to be like bashing your head against a brick wall, it's so nice when you stop.

I just can't be bothered anymore. We have all told the truth. If the powers that be can't see it, then it's their problem not mine.

The strange thing is we have nothing to gain, we have no axe to grind, as we don't breed enough to gain anything.

[Erny]

The strange thing is we have nothing to gain, we have no axe to grind, as we don't breed enough to gain anything.

Potentially not .... except to breed your next stud dog or bitch and to continue your passion. But if your passion is lost, that's fair enough. For the sake of $22 once every 3 years, I'd probably hang in though and just see what happens. Support it enough to give it a chance. Unless my mind was already made up to quit in which case it wouldn't have been just because of this recent proposal.

[Steve]

You know, I am getting to the stage that I really don't care anymore.

After what has happened in the Qld Dog world in last week leaves me wondering about so much along with so many others.

If we came up with stone cold evidence, you are asking for, the way the law is these days, we could be the ones that are in deep doo doo.

People have stated on this forum that they have come up with the evidence and nothing has been done about it.

Now that is not going to encourage others to do the same. Well it's not going to encourage me. I have stuck my neck out once to often over the years.

Someone else can stick theirs out this time.

Maybe someone that has a future in the dog world, not me as I am on the downward side of breeding.

At the moment I just don't care anymore.

Yes I hear you but while ever they are there they have been judged to be more ethical and until such time as they are exposed and or expelled they are promoted and supported more than anyone who is not an accredited breeder.

Is that right or fair, should they have ever done what they have done? I think the fact that they have introduced a system which places one member over another is disgraceful and it denigrates every registered purebred breeder. Will this eventually help or hinder ? I believe that over time it will hinder the PR of purebreds and purebred breeders. I think they played right into animal rights hands.

Animal rights have gone like mad to put showing and show breeders down. Pedigreed dogs exposed and the fallout spoke against show people because they said we put these things over temperament and health, that the selection for the show ring is cruelty and has destroyed our breeds, that we need outside interference to be sure we get it right - so what do the CC do - tell them they are right that they have breeders in their ranks which are rotten so they need to put extra bits in to discriminate the good from the bad - BUT - every step of the way in almost every sentence in that new code is a bigger push toward the very thing they have been getting belted for - an emphasis and bias toward showing before anything else.

100 percent I think they have really done the wrong thing. I understand someone refusing to join based on the fact that they object to what has been done and the creation of a sub class versus a superior class of membership. None of us paid our membership dues to be told that this would put us in the pit and see us treated as second class or worse especially if we feel that one or more of those being promoted and elevated should be in the pit lower than us.

But its time to stop saying you wont join because there are rotten ones there because it hurts us more. I understand the frustration of working your heart out for decades to get it right and then be treated as if you didn't count and whether you choose to join or not its your choice but this particular reason which is being spoken of here is in my opinion not the answer.

[oakway]

The strange thing is we have nothing to gain, we have no axe to grind, as we don't breed enough to gain anything.

Potentially not .... except to breed your next stud dog or bitch and to continue your passion. But if your passion is lost, that's fair enough. For the sake of $22 once every 3 years, I'd probably hang in though and just see what happens. Support it enough to give it a chance. Unless my mind was already made up to quit in which case it wouldn't have been just because of this recent proposal.

Erny, I believe this discussion has just helped to top matters off. I remember when we campaigned to get rid of the FCI because we did not want breed wardens, and people interfering with the dog world in this country and I am starting to wonder if we may not be wondering down a similar path and not really realizing it.

I can't go on forever and I would prefer to quit while I am ahead.

It doesn't mean I shall not ever breed another litter, maybe one or two and then I shall call it quits, so accreditation will never bother me.

[oakway]

You know, I am getting to the stage that I really don't care anymore.

After what has happened in the Qld Dog world in last week leaves me wondering about so much along with so many others.

If we came up with stone cold evidence, you are asking for, the way the law is these days, we could be the ones that are in deep doo doo.

People have stated on this forum that they have come up with the evidence and nothing has been done about it.

Now that is not going to encourage others to do the same. Well it's not going to encourage me. I have stuck my neck out once to often over the years.

Someone else can stick theirs out this time.

Maybe someone that has a future in the dog world, not me as I am on the downward side of breeding.

At the moment I just don't care anymore.

Yes I hear you but while ever they are there they have been judged to be more ethical and until such time as they are exposed and or expelled they are promoted and supported more than anyone who is not an accredited breeder.

Is that right or fair, should they have ever done what they have done? I think the fact that they have introduced a system which places one member over another is disgraceful and it denigrates every registered purebred breeder. Will this eventually help or hinder ? I believe that over time it will hinder the PR of purebreds and purebred breeders. I think they played right into animal rights hands.

Animal rights have gone like mad to put showing and show breeders down. Pedigreed dogs exposed and the fallout spoke against show people because they said we put these things over temperament and health, that the selection for the show ring is cruelty and has destroyed our breeds, that we need outside interference to be sure we get it right - so what do the CC do - tell them they are right that they have breeders in their ranks which are rotten so they need to put extra bits in to discriminate the good from the bad - BUT - every step of the way in almost every sentence in that new code is a bigger push toward the very thing they have been getting belted for - an emphasis and bias toward showing before anything else.

100 percent I think they have really done the wrong thing. I understand someone refusing to join based on the fact that they object to what has been done and the creation of a sub class versus a superior class of membership. None of us paid our membership dues to be told that this would put us in the pit and see us treated as second class or worse especially if we feel that one or more of those being promoted and elevated should be in the pit lower than us.

But its time to stop saying you wont join because there are rotten ones there because it hurts us more. I understand the frustration of working your heart out for decades to get it right and then be treated as if you didn't count and whether you choose to join or not its your choice but this particular reason which is being spoken of here is in my opinion not the answer.

Thanks Steve, but I am starting to believe those words....You can't beat City Hall and I am not sure I will ever believe in......if you can't beat them, join them.

But then I did say in at least one post everybody join the ABS then everyone will just the same as before, no difference we will ALL be accredited breeders.

[Steve]

I also think they are a bit slow to pick up that the reason breeders will walk away is because its become so controlling and over regulated at every level WHICH IS NOT IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE DOGS .

It has nothing to do with whether we can comply or even that we want to do it all and get it all right - its about taking away our passion for learning and making educated decisions in our own back yards based on what we know and what we are working with. it about taking away the feelings we got from doing what we did . we are spoken of as if we are pond scum and animal abusers and instead of our CC saying bugger off we only have great members and if they muck it up we will take action against them - they sniveled and agreed with them.

What is in the best interests of the dog and our breeds into the future? This should be the only question on the table.But when we go after answers we had better start doing our own research,taking advantage of our own knowledge and experience and not just follow on like sheep and dance to an animal rights drum. Why on earth would we do what people who have never bred a dog let alone a purebred dog tell us is what we need to do?

All of a sudden nothing counts, our experience our knowledge our reputations our track records are degraded.

Time for them to man up.

[Steve]

Take a year off - dont renew your membership for a year - you have 5 years to renew and 18 months to register your puppies. If everyone just waited a year or two to catch up that would reduced their income - money talks.

Or transfer from your state to another - all you need is an address over the border. Im sure the NT KC could use your membership money for a year or two - or longer. Vote with your feet and your wallet.

But do it as a protest against what they have done not because there are rotten breeders in the new group.

[Dracdog]

I must say this after reading this thread again all I see are a lot of whinging and b*/-+ing from the vast majority of the posts.

Some of you are as bad as my exwife if I went outside to do some work in the yard she would winge at me saying there was work to do inside first, so I would leave it and come inside to do the stuff inside. 5 minutes later she would be having ago at me for not being outside doing the things that needed to be done out there. You people are dong the same thing with the CC's not just Qld and not just in this post. You whyne that they don't do anything to help you just take your money then when they try to make a change to help members and their dogs or improve the system you have a cry about that.

Have any of you written to Dogs Qld and made suggestions on how the system can be improved. I doubt you have it is far easier to abuse them online and in hiding.

It is time to wake up and smell the s#%& you are shoveling. The people running the CC's are not Gods, they can't just snap their fingers and make everything perfect (even if they were able to what is perfect for one is not necessarily perfect for another), they are people like you and me trying to do their best to help the dog world. Hell from what I have read all the Committee members are volunteers and don't get anything for holding these positions and copping flak from members.

Stonebridge I didn't have to pay my renewal until 31 December same as most other members so I don't know why you said that it had to be paid a month early unless you are a judge or something and had to pay earlier.

[oakway]

I must say this after reading this thread again all I see are a lot of whinging and b*/-+ing from the vast majority of the posts.

Some of you are as bad as my exwife if I went outside to do some work in the yard she would winge at me saying there was work to do inside first, so I would leave it and come inside to do the stuff inside. 5 minutes later she would be having ago at me for not being outside doing the things that needed to be done out there. You people are dong the same thing with the CC's not just Qld and not just in this post. You whyne that they don't do anything to help you just take your money then when they try to make a change to help members and their dogs or improve the system you have a cry about that.

Have any of you written to Dogs Qld and made suggestions on how the system can be improved. I doubt you have it is far easier to abuse them online and in hiding.

It is time to wake up and smell the s#%& you are shoveling. The people running the CC's are not Gods, they can't just snap their fingers and make everything perfect (even if they were able to what is perfect for one is not necessarily perfect for another), they are people like you and me trying to do their best to help the dog world. Hell from what I have read all the Committee members are volunteers and don't get anything for holding these positions and copping flak from members.

Stonebridge I didn't have to pay my renewal until 31 December same as most other members so I don't know why you said that it had to be paid a month early unless you are a judge or something and had to pay earlier.

You haven't been in the dog world a long time have have you.

Because, by your post it shows.

And I like your wife, at least know when to get out.

[Dracdog]

You haven't been in the dog world a long time have have you.

Because, by your post it shows.

And I like your wife, at least know when to get out.

So your attitude is anyone who doesn't have your oppinion sould just go away. That is pathetic, what are you affraid of? I have not been in the dog world long (about 7 years) but have had dogs since I was knee high to a grasshopper. I have been and still am involved in alot of clubs outside the dogworld and has never experienced the amount of arrogance an sheer aggression towards committee's and new people, nor have I seen the amount of poor me syndrome when something doesn't go your way. I will not be getting out as on a whole I enjoy the Dog World it is just the narrow minded selfcentered people that would rather distroy and put down than help to buildup that annoy the hell out of me.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Dracdog

[shortstep]

This whole thing is just a knee jerk reaction to the animal rights peoples attack on show pedigreed dogs. Nothing, and I mean nothing will make those people happy, unless you end the kennel club. Most of them will not be happy until there are no dog breeders of any kind. There is nothing you can do that will make the animal rights people happy with ANKC breeders except for them to all (and that means all) stop breeding dogs.

Instead of dealing with he reality of the situation, we now have a 2 level system. Where we have the accredited breeder and not accredited breeder. Making the not accredited look inferior because of nothing more meaningful than the creation of the system in the first place.

However, beware. The animal rights folks will go after the accredited breeders first, just to prove that even the 'better' ANKC dog breeder is still a very bad breeder. Then they will say if the "better" accredited breeders are this bad, then just how bad are the 'not better' not accredited breeders, followed by ANKC breeders need to be under close government control to protect their dogs. It is a loose loose proposition for all ANKC breeders and a win win proposition for animal rights.

Meanwhile the ANKC breeders all turn on themselves.

It is total lunacy.

Edited February 23, 2011 by shortstep

[oakway]

This whole thing is just a knee jerk reaction to the animal rights peoples attack on show pedigreed dogs. Nothing, and I mean nothing will make those people happy, unless you end the kennel club. Most of them will not be happy until there are no dog breeders of any kind. There is nothing you can do that will make the animal rights people happy with ANKC breeders except for them to all (and that means all) stop breeding dogs.

Instead of dealing with he reality of the situation, we now have a 2 level system. Where we have the accredited breeder and not accredited breeder. Making the not accredited look inferior because of nothing more meaningful than the creation of the system in the first place.

However, beware. The animal rights folks will go after the accredited breeders first, just to prove that even the 'better' ANKC dog breeder is still a very bad breeder. Then they will say if the "better" accredited breeders are this bad, then just how bad are the 'not better' not accredited breeders, followed by ANKC breeders need to be under close government control to protect their dogs. It is a loose loose proposition for all ANKC breeders and a win win proposition for animal rights.

Meanwhile the ANKC breeders all turn on themselves.

It is total lunacy.

True.........that's the object of their exercise, to get the dog world to implode and people just can't see it.

We need to be standing up to theses organizations and tell to to go bu@@er off, not get into bed with them.

[Sandra777]

This whole thing is just a knee jerk reaction to the animal rights peoples attack on show pedigreed dogs. Nothing, and I mean nothing will make those people happy, unless you end the kennel club. Most of them will not be happy until there are no dog breeders of any kind. There is nothing you can do that will make the animal rights people happy with ANKC breeders except for them to all (and that means all) stop breeding dogs.

Instead of dealing with he reality of the situation, we now have a 2 level system. Where we have the accredited breeder and not accredited breeder. Making the not accredited look inferior because of nothing more meaningful than the creation of the system in the first place.

However, beware. The animal rights folks will go after the accredited breeders first, just to prove that even the 'better' ANKC dog breeder is still a very bad breeder. Then they will say if the "better" accredited breeders are this bad, then just how bad are the 'not better' not accredited breeders, followed by ANKC breeders need to be under close government control to protect their dogs. It is a loose loose proposition for all ANKC breeders and a win win proposition for animal rights.

Meanwhile the ANKC breeders all turn on themselves.

It is total lunacy.

True.........that's the object of their exercise, to get the dog world to implode and people just can't see it.

We need to be standing up to theses organizations and tell to to go bu@@er off, not get into bed with them.

Absolutely.

[oakway]

I can absolutely guarantee all Dogs Qld members (and forum participants) that the DQ Breeder Accreditation scheme is very highly regarded by both State and Local Governments. It is seen by them as yet another example of Dogs Queensland taking the initiative in regards to the "unresolved" question of dog breeding. More importantly the DQ BA scheme is seen as another means of setting responsible Dogs Queensland member breeders apart for BYB and puppy farmers. The Breeder Accreditation scheme is still in it's infancy so it will evolve over time. Ultimately it will be the puppy buyers who will drive this evolution - remember that every purchaser of a pedigreed, registered puppy in Qld receives a questionarre/feedback form from DQ about their experience with the breeder of their new puppy. So please don't underestimate the value of the recently introduced DQ BA scheme - embrace it as a means to an end - as an Accredited DQ member breeder I certainly support the scheme.

People on this forum, I would draw your attention what has been written in the above post. It is bold-ed below.

remember that every purchaser of a pedigreed, registered puppy in Qld receives a questionnaire/feedback form from DQ about their experience with the breeder of their new puppy

Do you believe this should happen. Surely if the transfer or registration if filed with Dogs Qld., then we as breeders have done the right thing.

What more do you want. Is it legal to gather information on people like this. A bit of bad luck if the new owners do something wrong with the puppy (as has happened) and gets upset with the breeder and files a bad report.

This smack's as Big Brother Is Watching.

Also black dog where has myself or any other breeder said ABS is not warranted. I am all for it. But not in the form it is now. It is self accreditation and you pay a fee and hey preseto you are accredited. An Accredited Breeder Scheme should be something earned not payed for by yourself.

Surely you must have been breeding for X amount of year's and produced outstanding dogs in your chosen breed. At least bred a few Champions.

There I started the ball rolling on an idea for an Accredited Breeders Scheme. As it stands now any person can be accredited breeder as long you hold a prefix and have bred one litter.

[Erny]

We need to be standing up to theses organizations and tell to to go bu@@er off, not get into bed with them.

But that's not happening. From what I see, quite the opposite. When there became a possibility of some competition (of sorts) all of a sudden State bodies were good enough and could make things right and competition wasn't needed.

From an outsider's point of view (although one who is very interested in the dog world per se) I am really unclear as to what breeders want/need/would be happy with in terms of fixing existing issues.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Erny

[Bullbreedlover]

Do you believe this should happen. Surely if the transfer or registration if filed with Dogs Qld., then we as breeders have done the right thing.

What more do you want. Is it legal to gather information on people like this. A bit of bad luck if the new owners do something wrong with the puppy (as has happened) and gets upset with the breeder and files a bad report.

This smack's as Big Brother Is Watching.

No I dont think it should happen Oakway. I dont know about the legalities of this though. I cant remember DogsQld asking the breeders if they would like this to happen. They just said it would. I cant remember DogsQld asking us about the Accredited Breeder system and letting us put forward submissions. They have just done it to appease the know it alls out there.

Dracdog I dont know why I am bothering replying to you. Except to say this. You have no idea. Dont tell me what to do and how to do it when you simply DO NOT HAVE ANY IDEA.

[Dracdog]

I have seen one of these surveys they don't ask for any details of the breeder. they just ask things like what breed you bought, what you have had previously, what sought of info was given on things like the care of the pup, local council regs, Dogs Qld ect, if they pleased with their experience. Once again there is nothing to ID the Breeder.

Doing the right thing is more than just registering or transfering the dog it is how you treat your dogs and your clients aswell.

As you are more than willing to point out there are puppy farmers who are registered breeders, and I agree there probably are a few bad apples, but if they are registering and transfering their dogs then by your statment they are doing the right thing.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Dracdog

[BJean]

Why dont you just tell Dogs QLD to bugger off -

and join another State CC

and/or the MDBA Registry?

Dracdog -

you can identify the breeder from the survey.

Edited February 24, 2011 by lilli