C.c.c. Qld's New Breeder Accredited System

[Tatzelwurm]

Accreditation with Dogsqld would benefit those accredited who could sell more pups, if those who already accredited are any yardstick. Volume and - or inexperienced breeders in the main. Very few exhibitors.

I understood this forum was for PUREBREED breeders to discuss matters of concern? Yet I see mostly discussions on cross bred dogs, and social interaction.

One of the few threads by registered breeders is garnering criticism because breeders are openly discussing a scheme.

What actually is the purpose of the forum?

Quite disappointing. Are those criticising involved or not?

What is being said here makes little sense and it really doesnt do registered breeders many favours in the PR department.

so in a public forum where anyone can get the results if they google, you are all saying that the system should not be trusted. so a puppy buyer reads this and then goes to a pet shop or a byb because who can they trust?

[Erny]

I understood this forum was for PUREBREED breeders to discuss matters of concern? Yet I see mostly discussions on cross bred dogs, and social interaction.

Is it?

When I joined back in 2004 I wasn't asked if I was a breeder, let alone if I was a breeder of pure breeds. I thought that was why breeders had their own forum on DOL at which the others of us are not allowed to join in .... or is it that we can join in but not start? Sorry - I'm not sure because I usually don't venture there. I tend to stay here in General and Training and Health.

I do think that precluding everyone other than those who breed pure breed dogs from DOL would make for a pretty narrow-minded mode of conversation as it would cut a lot of good ideas, experiences and help to others out, but I didn't know that me not being a breeder precluded me (or others) from being a member of DOL nor in partaking in any conversations.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Erny

[Wags]

Wags said = Well, if you can't see the difference between simply an open book exam and an undertaking which may or may not be upheld, compared to the additional scrutiny of having to present evidence of principled and ethical breeding initially, then physically monitoring both through new owners and on site inspections instead of doing nothing unless pushed to do so, then I guess I don't know how to explain it to you so that it is understood. I broached my thoughts in regard to just instigating it across the board with registered breeders in a previous post.

Of course I can see the difference in that - but isnt that saying more about how they manage their current members? Again I ask given that these things with the exception of two of them are already things every person agrees to already as registered breeders how will these members who do not go after accreditation for what ever reason - be that because they cant or because they wont on principal - be managed? Surely its the members who dont sign up and jump through the hoops who should be monitored more because they havent presented evidence as the others have ?????????

I haven't looked at this thread for ages, feeling it was an absolute wase of time, but just spotted this response.

Steve, Dogs Queensland have heretofore conducted themselves no differently to any other state canine body in regard to complaints and inspections, in my direct experience in working with the various councils and from what I have been told by interstate breeders. In my experience it has been the Queensland canine council who have taken anything put to them more seriously and are always communicative in regard to the outcome of anything. I've approached interstate canine controls about matters, and have yet to receive a response !!!

I am sure there are plans afoot in regard to what to do about non-accredited breeers, but as I don't work for Dogs Qld, I'm not aware of them. It stands to reason that there would have to be some plan involved, either to have all but perhaps probationary (for want of a better word) breeders to become accredited, or something which encourages and makes it mandatory for the remaining breeders to come on board with the accreditation scheme.

To be honest, I personally think the breeders who don't wish to come on board, (a) don't have the right to criticise and belittle those that have done so, or the scheme itself as they are not part of it, and (b) are the ones doing themselves the most harm by creating suspicion about themselves with their own reactions to the schemes intent of more stringent monitoring, insofar as other breeders and the general public are concerned, at a minimum.

[Steve]

Wags said = Well, if you can't see the difference between simply an open book exam and an undertaking which may or may not be upheld, compared to the additional scrutiny of having to present evidence of principled and ethical breeding initially, then physically monitoring both through new owners and on site inspections instead of doing nothing unless pushed to do so, then I guess I don't know how to explain it to you so that it is understood. I broached my thoughts in regard to just instigating it across the board with registered breeders in a previous post.

Of course I can see the difference in that - but isnt that saying more about how they manage their current members? Again I ask given that these things with the exception of two of them are already things every person agrees to already as registered breeders how will these members who do not go after accreditation for what ever reason - be that because they cant or because they wont on principal - be managed? Surely its the members who dont sign up and jump through the hoops who should be monitored more because they havent presented evidence as the others have ?????????

I haven't looked at this thread for ages, feeling it was an absolute wase of time, but just spotted this response.

Steve, Dogs Queensland have heretofore conducted themselves no differently to any other state canine body in regard to complaints and inspections, in my direct experience in working with the various councils and from what I have been told by interstate breeders. In my experience it has been the Queensland canine council who have taken anything put to them more seriously and are always communicative in regard to the outcome of anything. I've approached interstate canine controls about matters, and have yet to receive a response !!!

I am sure there are plans afoot in regard to what to do about non-accredited breeers, but as I don't work for Dogs Qld, I'm not aware of them. It stands to reason that there would have to be some plan involved, either to have all but perhaps probationary (for want of a better word) breeders to become accredited, or something which encourages and makes it mandatory for the remaining breeders to come on board with the accreditation scheme.

To be honest, I personally think the breeders who don't wish to come on board, (a) don't have the right to criticise and belittle those that have done so, or the scheme itself as they are not part of it, and (b) are the ones doing themselves the most harm by creating suspicion about themselves with their own reactions to the schemes intent of more stringent monitoring, insofar as other breeders and the general public are concerned, at a minimum.

Yep I agree. Now its in - the time for critising it is past and I encourage all Queensland registered breeders to sign up. Publicly bagging out those who are already in is very much doing all registered breeders an in justice.

[MissMonaro]

Look..........as I have said before, every registered breeder in Queensland go and pay the fee and become accredited.

What will happen........we will have given Dogs Queensland a lot of money and all be on the same level.

When asked by puppy purchasers are you an accredited breeder ?, we can laugh and say every breeder in Queensland is an accredited breeder even the puppy farmers.

What will be achieved in regards to breeding........nothing, as the same old breeders will still churn out the same old stuff as before with the word that I am an accredited breeder, and again,.............. Dogs Queensland received a lot of money.

Now what has the word accredited breeder achieved???????. Nothing !!!!!.

And many wonder why some of us are saying,.............. it won't work.

;)

I dont have a problem with the requirements of being an accredited breeder - just the costs involved. Times are tough !!

As Oakway said.......there are unethical breeders everywhere so any new scheme, new association etc is not going to make a brass razoo of a difference.

I understood this forum was for PUREBREED breeders to discuss matters of concern? Yet I see mostly discussions on cross bred dogs, and social interaction.

When I first joined - it was a PUREBREED dog forum....full of breeders offering great words of wisdom and experience far beyond anything you see on here these days. I didnt see the abuse and the rudeness to new ppl that joined asking questions, or towards ppl that have a difference of opinion. Things were discussed and in most cases, resolved by an "agree to disagree" or some valuable advice was given and a happy pet owner.

DOL has grown a lot since then....there are a lot more "pet" people coming here (and not saying thats a bad thing) - and so then the breeders got their own seperate forum, but unfortunately, a lot of the ppl that had so much to offer have left the site because of all the nastiness etc......... and it really is such a shame ;)

[goldchow]

Yes those were the days, just like the dogs shows when we'd all rock up with a packet of sandwiches, a couple flasks, a blanket to sit on, our grooming gear and a couple of dogs on leads. We'd all sit together and talk dogs till we were exhausted, whoever won on the day was duty bound to provide the coffee and it was a wonderful social day out. It was all so much more simple then.

I too miss those many very experienced breeders who used to frequent the forum, and the tremendous discussions that used to be held here, learnt alot from them. Progress, good or bad is a fact of life and not always easily accepted.

[Jed]

Wags said = Well, if you can't see the difference between simply an open book exam and an undertaking which may or may not be upheld, compared to the additional scrutiny of having to present evidence of principled and ethical breeding initially, then physically monitoring both through new owners and on site inspections instead of doing nothing unless pushed to do so, then I guess I don't know how to explain it to you so that it is understood. I broached my thoughts in regard to just instigating it across the board with registered breeders in a previous post.

Of course I can see the difference in that - but isnt that saying more about how they manage their current members? Again I ask given that these things with the exception of two of them are already things every person agrees to already as registered breeders how will these members who do not go after accreditation for what ever reason - be that because they cant or because they wont on principal - be managed? Surely its the members who dont sign up and jump through the hoops who should be monitored more because they havent presented evidence as the others have ?????????

I haven't looked at this thread for ages, feeling it was an absolute wase of time, but just spotted this response.

Steve, Dogs Queensland have heretofore conducted themselves no differently to any other state canine body in regard to complaints and inspections, in my direct experience in working with the various councils and from what I have been told by interstate breeders. In my experience it has been the Queensland canine council who have taken anything put to them more seriously and are always communicative in regard to the outcome of anything. I've approached interstate canine controls about matters, and have yet to receive a response !!!

I am sure there are plans afoot in regard to what to do about non-accredited breeers, but as I don't work for Dogs Qld, I'm not aware of them. It stands to reason that there would have to be some plan involved, either to have all but perhaps probationary (for want of a better word) breeders to become accredited, or something which encourages and makes it mandatory for the remaining breeders to come on board with the accreditation scheme.

To be honest, I personally think the breeders who don't wish to come on board, (a) don't have the right to criticise and belittle those that have done so, or the scheme itself as they are not part of it, and (b) are the ones doing themselves the most harm by creating suspicion about themselves with their own reactions to the schemes intent of more stringent monitoring, insofar as other breeders and the general public are concerned, at a minimum.

Yep I agree. Now its in - the time for critising it is past and I encourage all Queensland registered breeders to sign up. Publicly bagging out those who are already in is very much doing all registered breeders an in justice.

That's your opinion, you aren't a DogsQld member, I rather imagine the members will have more say that you do. I don' know that we need the advice, thanks, unless you want to give a reason for giving it.

Edited to add - what an interesting thread. Most DogsQld members are against the ABS, with the exception of Wags, and one DogsNSW breeder member and one SA pet owner are in favour of it.

Apparently the further away from it you are, the better it looks.

The ABS was obviously created to appease animal rights. I don't know why DogsQld can't seem understand there is no appeasing them, and rolling onto your back for tummy scratches wins you NO friends with your membership. DogsQld, always the first - first with BSL. first with docking, first to ban first degree matings, first to have an ABS. And they were all systems go with mandatory desexing, it wasn't until their members told them they were about to be desexed out of existence - and the DPI told them they had thousands of written objections from their members, but none from them that they saw the light on that one.

And no one with any nous wants to be in anything "special" with breeders who are the subject of approbation Australia wide, who are known to breeders as "dodgy". Some of the people in the ABS have done appalling things - and public things - which are totally against the COE, yet they are able to be Accredited Breeders. What a joke. One would hope that they would be expelled.

You'd only join if you needed to look good. Some of us don't need to look good, because we bloody ARE good.

God help young breeders. No one else will.

Yes, MM, it's a shame about all the good breeders, happy to share their time and knowledge, who don't come here any more, but things change, and not always for the better.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Jed

[Bullbreedlover]

That's your opinion, you aren't a DogsQld member, I rather imagine the members will have more say that you do. I don' know that we need the advice, thanks, unless you want to give a reason for giving it.

Good post Jed. Short but sweet.

eta not that short but still sweet :D

And by the way Erny and JB. No where in this thread have I mentioned another registry. If you would like to think I am talking about Steve and try to read something into that,then sorry, you are mistaken. I was talking about people in general. I am allowed to.

Apology...wont hold my breathe.

Edited February 9, 2011 by stonebridge

[Jed]

Uh oh, it got longer stonebridge!! :D Wasn't changed though.

[mita]

Yes those were the days, just like the dogs shows when we'd all rock up with a packet of sandwiches, a couple flasks, a blanket to sit on, our grooming gear and a couple of dogs on leads. We'd all sit together and talk dogs till we were exhausted, whoever won on the day was duty bound to provide the coffee and it was a wonderful social day out. It was all so much more simple then.

Progress, good or bad is a fact of life and not always easily accepted.

Some time back, our vet commented to me what pleasure some of his clients got out of showing, even on a small scale (living in the suburbs). For the combination of social activity, and great interest in their breed. He was a great supporter of the dog show world & the variety it covered & what it achieved for purebred dogs. He would have agreed with your description.

You're right about the price of progress. I've posted before, that some kind of accreditation is expected these days in all sorts of areas. It can present challenges. For good or ill.

[Erny]

That's your opinion, you aren't a DogsQld member, I rather imagine the members will have more say that you do. I don' know that we need the advice, thanks, unless you want to give a reason for giving it.

Good post Jed. Short but sweet.

eta not that short but still sweet ;)

And by the way Erny and JB. No where in this thread have I mentioned another registry. If you would like to think I am talking about Steve and try to read something into that,then sorry, you are mistaken. I was talking about people in general. I am allowed to.

Apology...wont hold my breathe.

I don't know what you are talking about at all, now :D . Why do you have to be not nice? I do apologise if I misunderstood your earlier post where you said about getting to learn who didn't matter (not quoting the words - would need to back track for that). Why do you suggest here of me that you would not or could not expect an apology? I don't think you were particularly clear with your previous post that did appear to be quite disparaging. I'm not even sure what I'm apologising for :D .

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

apology for what, having an opinion :D :D:rofl:;)

[goldchow]

Have sent you a PM Erny, you have nothing to apologise for. Looking forward to catching up

[Erny]

Thanks JB and Goldchow.

I'm a bit puzzled about the behaviour I've seen coming through in this thread.

I'm even a bit puzzled about what it is that breeders do or don't want, making the huge assumption that the majority of people who have posted here are representative of the majority of breeders.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

erny i am confused too. seems to me there are a lot of CCCQ members happy with the scheme and joining. some breeders on dol don't want to join for their own reasons. fair enough but there will be ramifications for the breeders that don't become accredited and you don't need to be a breeder to see what will happen in the future.

i will watch with interest on how this scheme plays itself out.

[Sandra777]

All I want is for ''accredited breeder'' to mean something. At the moment it means nothing, there is no compulsion to comply with the promises at the time of admittance and there appears to be nothing in place to remove accreditation once it is given.

Simple request really.

[oakway]

All I want is for ''accredited breeder'' to mean something. At the moment it means nothing, there is no compulsion to comply with the promises at the time of admittance and there appears to be nothing in place to remove accreditation once it is given.

Simple request really.

To be quite truthful, I think that Sandra, myself and others could put enough holes in the accredited breeder scheme that would sink a submarine.

Firstly I think people are believing that we against an accredited breeder scheme..........I believe we are not...........but I do believe we are against it in it's present form.

As Sandra says it must be earned, not handed out willy nilly on self assessment and a fee.

[mita]

Interesting parallel I heard this morning. The national body that deals with teacher registration wants TWO additional levels of accreditation of teachers...to be applied for, on a voluntary basis.

Must-have 2 levels for basic accreditation already are graduate qualifications & a period teaching to prove proficiency.

The 2 new, voluntary levels will be highly accomplished & lead. They say employers will 'know' teachers with these additional levels, could be used for things like mentoring.

The big issue they're working on, is what evidence will be needed for teachers to gain these (on application), & how will it be gathered.

Same question as the CCCQ scheme, about evidence.

Same situation, too, where there'll be some teachers who apply to get these voluntary 'labels', & some who don't. Yet a good teacher could still be a good teacher, extra label or not. But accreditation systems try to push standards higher & require evidence. Tho' individuals will still have to be judged on their own merit.

And, yes, this accreditation given to teach, can also be taken away. For a range of reasons...incompetency, not meeting standards of behaviour set. They even use old fashioned language like 'disgraceful or improper' behaviour.

Edited February 10, 2011 by mita

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

mita i have seen accreditation schemes happen in several sectors both here and overseas and usually what ends up happening in my experience is all individuals (or in some cases, companies) join the scheme.

they may not do it immediately but they eventually join the scheme or leave the sector

[Sandra777]

mita i have seen accreditation schemes happen in several sectors both here and overseas and usually what ends up happening in my experience is all individuals (or in some cases, companies) join the scheme.

they may not do it immediately but they eventually join the scheme or leave the sector

So what you are saying is accreditation achieves nothing because everyone who is in the ''business'', good or bad, eventually becomes accredited.