Steve Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I would like to thank everyone who has posted a reply to my question and it is clear by the responses where this system sits with everyone.Thank you for your time. I wouldnt take that much notice of what breeders who havent joined have to say. Ask the ones who have and also understand that they will be promoting this to puppy buyers and regardless of what the breeders who dont or cant join have to say that may just make the difference. If you are concerned about what other breeders might think of you if you do - forget that they will find numerous other things whether you're in or out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Lets look at this from my side of the fence. I have been breeding for many, many years along with a lot of others on this list. We are good ethical breeders and would do no person any harm if they came to us to purchase. I, along with others have winning dogs around the world. Our dogs speak for themselves and so do our reputations, to put it plainly, we keep our noses clean, and do harm to any body else, even though we may get dumped on from a dizzy height by others who do not, or may never breed the quality some of us do. Why should we, the people that do no wrong, need to be accredited ?. Just because Dogs Queensland offer this accredited scheme doesn't mean we have join it. No matter how many people get accreditation, it does not guarantee you getting a better quality puppy from an accredited breeder. Being accredited does not mean the accredited person will breed better puppies. It just means that they have fulfilled the list of requirements set out by Dogs Queensland and paid the fee. There are many of us that raise an eyebrow when we hear who has accreditation, there are many us that could not recommend some accredited breeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravensmyst00 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I would like to thank everyone who has posted a reply to my question and it is clear by the responses where this system sits with everyone.Thank you for your time. I wouldnt take that much notice of what breeders who havent joined have to say. Ask the ones who have and also understand that they will be promoting this to puppy buyers and regardless of what the breeders who dont or cant join have to say that may just make the difference. If you are concerned about what other breeders might think of you if you do - forget that they will find numerous other things whether you're in or out. Its nice to know the difference between me being ethical and unethical is simply $22. What a crock!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) I forgot to say in my prior post. What if every breeder in Queensland becomes accredited ?. That puts us all back on the same level. Oh well back to square one and a lot more money in Dogs Queensland pockets. Edited January 30, 2011 by oakway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I would like to thank everyone who has posted a reply to my question and it is clear by the responses where this system sits with everyone.Thank you for your time. I wouldnt take that much notice of what breeders who havent joined have to say. Ask the ones who have and also understand that they will be promoting this to puppy buyers and regardless of what the breeders who dont or cant join have to say that may just make the difference. If you are concerned about what other breeders might think of you if you do - forget that they will find numerous other things whether you're in or out. Its nice to know the difference between me being ethical and unethical is simply $22. :D What a crock!!!!!! I think you have put it in a nut shell. I think that's what I have been trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 What I'm seeing now is some of the familiar faces objecting to yet another scheme/attempt to try to 'tighten up' (for want of better words) matters of an ethical nature. Whether it's great or not I admit is another matter - I'm not a breeder so I haven't looked at it, but the nastiness that is being revealed by a select few isn't lending me any confidence in following their opinions. Maybe what you are actually seeing is the few who are prepared to stand up and have an opinion which goes against "the establishment" I may be a Kiwi but I could never be accused of being a sheep :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) What I'm seeing now is some of the familiar faces objecting to yet another scheme/attempt to try to 'tighten up' (for want of better words) matters of an ethical nature. Whether it's great or not I admit is another matter - I'm not a breeder so I haven't looked at it, but the nastiness that is being revealed by a select few isn't lending me any confidence in following their opinions. Maybe what you are actually seeing is the few who are prepared to stand up and have an opinion which goes against "the establishment" I may be a Kiwi but I could never be accused of being a sheep :D I would say that if anyone might be "going against the establishment" it is the one which is seeking change and/or is offering something more or something different. Edited January 30, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRzipper Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 We have been gathering information from the surveys since September 2009. Ourintention was to find out what breeders do and how those practices are perceived by the buying public. The results of the survey from September 2009 to February 2010 were presented at the General Meeting in March. In its own small way, the survey has produced enough data to establish that most of our member breeders are conforming with and surpassing Dogs Queensland Rules and Regulations and Code of Ethics. It is now TIME to let everyone know about the high standard of practices and carethat these members are demonstrating. Taken from Dogs Qld Breeder Accreditation The Facts. HERE Maybe the Breeders don't feel the need to pay the fee to "prove" what they are already doing. I don't how you can call it going out of their way to comply IF they are already conforming with and surpassing what is already in place. Just a thought. When i say out of their way i mean pay more fees and the system also mentions mentors whom have to travel to other breeders and check on their kennels. Wouldnt you call this an extra activity for a breeder whom normally would be concerned with their own kennel,shows ect. I would call that going out of their way. They dont get paid for their service. I'm from a different state than you but there are plenty of Bullmastiff breeders who are on both the giving and receiving end of breeder mentoring networks across Australia and they are certainly concerned with more than just their own kennel or showing. It is not about being paid or joining a program or being told you SHOULD do it, these are people who are interested in doing their best for the breed and working with like-minded people and they would do this regardless of whether there was any accreditation system or not. JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMonaro Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Its nice to know the difference between me being ethical and unethical is simply $22. What a crock!!!!!! Its not just $22 though - you have to also pay to advertise in the Dog World as well - which is $75 for one small line I think it is. I looked into the whole thing, downloaded all the forms....but its really another fee and just more money each year - its just getting really ridiculous. But I also agree that it is wrong to say that anyone that is accredited is "better" than anybody else, just like the MDBA saying that cos a breeder is with them, then that makes them more ethical or better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 But I also agree that it is wrong to say that anyone that is accredited is "better" than anybody else, just like the MDBA saying that cos a breeder is with them, then that makes them more ethical or better. This is where I thought different. I think the MDBA was endeavouring to provide a service for the breeders who are ethical, who otherwise are being tarred with the same brush as those who are not so ethical, something that breeders have been asking the question of how to stand apart for quite a long time. I don't think it was as simple as "just pay a fee". But this thread is not about the MDBA. Where MDBA was raised was by what I took to be a fairly scathing comment by another here. A comment that was not warranted IMO and lent itself towards being defamatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swanbrook Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 We have been gathering information from the surveys since September 2009. Ourintention was to find out what breeders do and how those practices are perceived by the buying public. The results of the survey from September 2009 to February 2010 were presented at the General Meeting in March. In its own small way, the survey has produced enough data to establish that most of our member breeders are conforming with and surpassing Dogs Queensland Rules and Regulations and Code of Ethics. It is now TIME to let everyone know about the high standard of practices and carethat these members are demonstrating. Taken from Dogs Qld Breeder Accreditation The Facts. HERE Maybe the Breeders don't feel the need to pay the fee to "prove" what they are already doing. I don't how you can call it going out of their way to comply IF they are already conforming with and surpassing what is already in place. Just a thought. When i say out of their way i mean pay more fees and the system also mentions mentors whom have to travel to other breeders and check on their kennels. Wouldnt you call this an extra activity for a breeder whom normally would be concerned with their own kennel,shows ect. I would call that going out of their way. They dont get paid for their service. I'm from a different state than you but there are plenty of Bullmastiff breeders who are on both the giving and receiving end of breeder mentoring networks across Australia and they are certainly concerned with more than just their own kennel or showing. It is not about being paid or joining a program or being told you SHOULD do it, these are people who are interested in doing their best for the breed and working with like-minded people and they would do this regardless of whether there was any accreditation system or not. JR JR i asked the question originally because i dont know how many bullmastiff breeders there are in qld but there is only 1 that is now an accredited Breeder by the CCCQ/Dogs Qld and i think good on her and i don't think accredited is a dirty word. I in fact admire her and her ethics as a breeder. There are a lot of breeds and this touches them all and differently. Its what i expected as we are all as different as our chosen breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I forgot to say in my prior post.What if every breeder in Queensland becomes accredited ?. That puts us all back on the same level. Oh well back to square one and a lot more money in Dogs Queensland pockets. But thats really the whole point - if they felt it was needed why didn't they just make it a change to the COE for everyone? Why did they set a system up which made it look like they allowed members who were rotten and why did they set a system up which sees puppies being regsitered by some who may not be doing the right thing Why didnt they just tell them to bugger off , that we were all doing the right thing and if we dont they will chuck us out ? Why did they play this game? It cant be for more money. Time will tell but now its done sooner or later breeders will give in and pay the money tick the boxes or be seen to be lesser breeders.Would have been different if no one joined but looks to me like its a run away train. Its a done deal and accredited breeders are being promoted over any others even though any one who can read can still see they dont have to do anything more than they do now. Whats more they can still sell to pet shops and still breed crossbred dogs and still breed hundreds of puppies each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Its nice to know the difference between me being ethical and unethical is simply $22. What a crock!!!!!! Its not just $22 though - you have to also pay to advertise in the Dog World as well - which is $75 for one small line I think it is. I looked into the whole thing, downloaded all the forms....but its really another fee and just more money each year - its just getting really ridiculous. But I also agree that it is wrong to say that anyone that is accredited is "better" than anybody else, just like the MDBA saying that cos a breeder is with them, then that makes them more ethical or better. The MDBA doesnt say their members are better or more ethical than anyone. They say that they know their members are ethical - there is a difference. CCCQ have now said they know some of their members are not ethical. Glad its not my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMonaro Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 But Steve HOW do you know that all your members are "ethical" ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 But Steve HOW do you know that all your members are "ethical" ?? If I answer you in detail here I will be accused of using the forum to promote the MDBA so suffice to say I am 100 % sure that our members are ethical. I am happy to defend every single one of them and promote every single one of them and recommend every single one of them and if the very worst thing happens and one of those members mucks it up they will no longer be members. The concept of having a 2 tiered system which promotes one or the other over the other members implying that some are less ethical is - in my personal opinion - disgraceful. I think it is giving into animal rights crap which originated from a country which has a completely different system altogether to us and it has placed Queensland breeders in a situation where sooner or later they will have to become accredited or be treated as second class or insignificant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I forgot to say in my prior post.What if every breeder in Queensland becomes accredited ?. That puts us all back on the same level. Oh well back to square one and a lot more money in Dogs Queensland pockets. But thats really the whole point - if they felt it was needed why didn't they just make it a change to the COE for everyone? Why did they set a system up which made it look like they allowed members who were rotten and why did they set a system up which sees puppies being regsitered by some who may not be doing the right thing Why didnt they just tell them to bugger off , that we were all doing the right thing and if we dont they will chuck us out ? Why did they play this game? It cant be for more money. Time will tell but now its done sooner or later breeders will give in and pay the money tick the boxes or be seen to be lesser breeders.Would have been different if no one joined but looks to me like its a run away train. Its a done deal and accredited breeders are being promoted over any others even though any one who can read can still see they dont have to do anything more than they do now. Whats more they can still sell to pet shops and still breed crossbred dogs and still breed hundreds of puppies each year. True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I think the idea of the accreditation scheme has merit, I think if better worked, it would be worth the while. The format it is in now is flawed. It is too easy for those who aren't ethical to become accredited. Unfortunately I do believe there are those who have become accredited that aren't ethical. There are those breeders who do have winning dogs and fancy websites who are doing the wrong thing. "Ethical" is how you present yourself to the world and how good you are at hiding your not so ethical actions. I am sure many on this list can think of a few breeders who are "Very successful" and know of some things done to be successful. Some maybe rumour some maybe truth. The CCC need to review their COE for EVERYONE. Suspend those who are doing the wrong thing. Take a damn stand against the wrong doers.. That will go further than a warped and flawed accreditation scheme that needs to be reworked so those who really want to go onto it can hold their heads up high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Erny What I'm seeing now is some of the familiar faces objecting to yet another scheme/attempt to try to 'tighten up' (for want of better words) matters of an ethical nature. Hi Erny, I am responding to your comments re CCCQ and the accredited breeders' scheme. I wont join because I see there are some puppy farmers in there - there is nothing to stop them joining....they have to say they WILL do some things, not that they DO them now. And it seems to give them instant credibility. There is very little "tighter" about it, and if you are indeed an ethical breeder, as I like to think I am, and as the RSPCA indeed says I am (*laughs*) you don't want to be a member of something with Dodgy Bros and Shonkypaws as fellow members. There is no "tightening up"; breeders are promising to do something. No accreditation scheme or anything else will make people ethical. Nothing. They are ethical because of who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowenhart Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 No accreditation scheme or anything else will make people ethical. Nothing. They are ethical because of who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracdog Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 What do you think they should do to improve the system? I see a lot of poohooing but very little in the way of constructive ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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