Humanising Dogs

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

My dog has started poking her nose in my butt when she wants attention - because it sure works.

And I swear the last time I turned round and looked at her - she smiled at me. She opened her mouth, and pulled the corners of her mouth back in a big ACD smile. Sheesh.

What she really wanted was to be let out into the back yard so she could crap. After being distracted by a little mouse hunting. Bum up, tail wagging, up to her elbows in a big hole, nose covered in dirt.

And she did that look - you know the guilty "I did something wrong" look yesterday when i took a bit long to release her to eat her breakfast. Like she thinks that works too. She hadn't done anything wrong at all. She'd done really well waiting for me to give her permission to eat. But she'd all hunched up with her ears all down and those big round eyes...

[raz]

And she did that look - you know the guilty "I did something wrong" look yesterday when i took a bit long to release her to eat her breakfast. Like she thinks that works too. She hadn't done anything wrong at all. She'd done really well waiting for me to give her permission to eat. But she'd all hunched up with her ears all down and those big round eyes...

I had a dog staying with me for a bit and she broke into the pantry one day and tried to eat arborio rice. I swear to god one of my dogs came and warned me about it. It was hilarious. She really looked like she was dobbing on the 'intruder'

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

And she did that look - you know the guilty "I did something wrong" look yesterday when i took a bit long to release her to eat her breakfast. Like she thinks that works too. She hadn't done anything wrong at all. She'd done really well waiting for me to give her permission to eat. But she'd all hunched up with her ears all down and those big round eyes...

I had a dog staying with me for a bit and she broke into the pantry one day and tried to eat arborio rice. I swear to god one of my dogs came and warned me about it. It was hilarious. She really looked like she was dobbing on the 'intruder'

i have had a dobber dog before and they do tell on the naughty dogs ;)

i think we humanise dogs because the language we use does this, we speak using words that we are familiar with and that others understand...doesn't mean that this is bad for the dogs

[m-j]

In a way I see teaching a dog commands and expecting them to be obeyed as a bit anthropomorphic. I can't think of any time where dogs actively teach each other to do things, just not to do things. The exeption to this is co-operative hunting, I don't know much about this but I do wonder if they're reading the play and reacting accordingly as with model rival training.

Please don't get me wrong I do know why we do this and it is necessary as it makes life easier, but we are treating them like we treat humans not as dogs treat each other.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Or the dog that leaps up and barks at the back door and when you go to open it for her, she goes back and curls up on the bed in the warm place where you were. Doesn't even go out to chase cats. Sigh.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[Monah]

darwin was anthropomorphic, I think many scientists are, and it's a good thing.

Darwin certainly was not anthropocentric. That is, he didn't see all life as centred on human values (but then science is value free). His work showed that humans evolved, same as all the other animals. He made it clear that's why he was so strong about how humans should treat animals reasonably. He personally pursued a legal case against a local farmer who treated an animal badly, beyond the reasonable. Most of the 'facts' in his snippet about Darwin & his attitude towards dogs are accurate.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_dog_did_Charles_Darwin_have

Finding similarities between humans & dogs....such as the fact that dogs' learning is the same process as early stage human's...is not anthropomorphic.

It's finding something in particular in common. Seems the things that humans & dogs have in common, can provide a close sense of companionship. And meet mutual needs, from pets to working dogs.

Maybe I have the wrong meaning. I thought to be anthropomorphic was to attribute human emotions etc. to beings other than human, which Darwin did, thank goodness, as other scientists thought this was a big no no.

I've had 'dobber' dogs too, and have one ATM! My viz definiely tells me when someone is up to no good, or even unwell, as did my old lakeland and my ACD

I ahd 2 cockatiels who thought they were dogs, they slept and played with them, ate from the dogs bowls and even barked.. ;) ;)

[mita]

So - if, strictly speaking we cannot confidently say our dog is happy..

then what are we supposed to say when we perceive our dogs to be:

relaxed

fearful

aggressive

excited

playful

bored

etc?

or are these all common to humans and dogs?

We make those judgments about dogs 'emotions' , based on looking at their behaviour. What the dogs do with their bodies & the expressions on their faces & the noises they make

Which is exactly the way we make judgments about human infants' emotions. Before they are old enough to tell us in words...as well.

So it's fair enough to use those words for dogs. That doesn't make dogs the same as infants. It just says there's something in common.

AWL QLD has a program which teaches children how to interact with dogs. It shows them how to look at a dog's behaviour. So they can figure out what the dog is 'telling' them about how it's 'feeling' about what's going on. Like, if it's getting annoyed or irritable. The children then can change their own behaviour so the button gets unpressed.

It's bleeding obvious that dogs don't possess language to communicate...an essential difference with humans. But they communicate via body language, facial expressions & noises... as all humans do, too.

Dogs communicated 'Not Fair!' , in a study, via body language. And it wasn't fair! Children would say so, but who hasn't seen their body language 'sulk', too.

http://www.physorg.com/news147960499.html

Edited January 31, 2011 by mita

[~Anne~]

And she did that look - you know the guilty "I did something wrong" look yesterday when i took a bit long to release her to eat her breakfast. Like she thinks that works too. She hadn't done anything wrong at all. She'd done really well waiting for me to give her permission to eat. But she'd all hunched up with her ears all down and those big round eyes...

I had a dog staying with me for a bit and she broke into the pantry one day and tried to eat arborio rice. I swear to god one of my dogs came and warned me about it. It was hilarious. She really looked like she was dobbing on the 'intruder'

i have had a dobber dog before and they do tell on the naughty dogs ;)

i think we humanise dogs because the language we use does this, we speak using words that we are familiar with and that others understand...doesn't mean that this is bad for the dogs

Not sure it is just language though.

[WreckitWhippet]

I break all the rules. Mine eat off my fork, sleep on the bed, lay around on the lounge, get presents, have parties, wear clothes, refer to ourselves and "mummy and daddy". I call them my babies, kiss and cuddle them.

and couldn't give two shits what name people like to call it. I love them and they are all, happy and healthy.

[LizT]

In a way I see teaching a dog commands and expecting them to be obeyed as a bit anthropomorphic. I can't think of any time where dogs actively teach each other to do things, just not to do things. The exeption to this is co-operative hunting, I don't know much about this but I do wonder if they're reading the play and reacting accordingly as with model rival training.

Please don't get me wrong I do know why we do this and it is necessary as it makes life easier, but we are treating them like we treat humans not as dogs treat each other.

While not "actively teaching" many years ago I was very amused to see my young Border Collie X ACD learn how to 'sit/stay' (for meals) 'heel' and "go bed" all by following the cues of the older trained German Shepherd. He didn't teach her but she learnt from him. She was the smartest dog I've ever owned and she was just "plucked out of a cardboard box" by me at 6 weeks when her dams owner was taking the unwanted litter to a Pet Shop and asked me, jokingly "Which one would you like?" I was just delivering some papers to this person and didn't really know her well, but I took the pup because a Kelpie X Border I was minding for a friend for 6 months had just gone back to his owner, who had returned from the U.S. and I thought my GSD was missing him abit and that a second dog had been nice for him. They turned out to be great mates.

[LizT]

i think we humanise dogs because the language we use does this, we speak using words that we are familiar with and that others understand...doesn't mean that this is bad for the dogs

Not sure it is just language though.

A trainer I worked with once told me never to use the word "No" on a dog. That our language was just flat to their ears and when repremanding to use a low gutteral "Ah ahhh".

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

i think we humanise dogs because the language we use does this, we speak using words that we are familiar with and that others understand...doesn't mean that this is bad for the dogs

Not sure it is just language though.

A trainer I worked with once told me never to use the word "No" on a dog. That our language was just flat to their ears and when repremanding to use a low gutteral "Ah ahhh".

yep that's what i use or Oi..more about tone and sounds than words

[mita]

Maybe I have the wrong meaning. I thought to be anthropomorphic was to attribute human emotions etc. to beings other than human, which Darwin did, thank goodness, as other scientists thought this was a big no no.

Sorry, Monah. It did look as if I were correcting what you said!

I was actually saying that Darwin argued commonalities could be expected across some mammalian species raised in social groups.

Here's a current 'follower' up-dating that position:

http://thislivelyearth.com/2010/10/02/kind...nimal-instinct/

And here's an interview with a scientist who's in a similar line of thought. He talks about how & why dogs and cats are 'emotionally connected' with humans. (Just 2 mammalian examples):

http://lawofsuccess2.blogspot.com/2010/07/...ns-de-waal.html

Edited January 31, 2011 by mita

[poodlemum]

Incidentally, have you ever actually "asked" what your dog wants for dinner? Some of them have preferences! I think that is so damn cool.

IMO "humanising" an animal is as simple and common as saying your dog is happy. Or your dog loves X, Y and Z. Or your dog growls when he feels his personal space is being invaded. The thing is, it's hard to explain or even describe dog behaviour without humanising.

I dont ask what they want for dinner - they eat what I give them. If i had little kids they'd eat what I dished up as well. As for not saying your dog is happy - c'mon now corvus. Havent you ever watched your dog doing zoomies and thought to yourself, gee he looks happy.

Exactly the same here - even though Poodles are often dressed up etc - mine are NEVER dressed up or made to look silly - they are dogs - beautiful dogs, but dogs - my relationship with them is diffrent from my relationship with humans (not so demanding, on their part, for one thing )

We anthropomorphise for a few reasons that I can see anyway

1) we cannot cope with that which is different, hence we put human qualities and parameters on it to self justify our own actions. Eg - adolescent out of control dog given up to pound 'we told him no, we smacked him on the bum when he didnt listen, we bought him everything he wanted and I fed him twice a day on VERY expensive food and he still wont listen or appreciate me. He's just a stupid dog'. That and most human beings are just damn bone idle. Again the self justification comes into it.

2) We're living in a delusional society that has to remove itself from nature. Dogs are animals. With big teeth. They eat raw meat, they piss on things, they dig, chew, bark, shit on your rug/porch/lawn, will invariably use you like a chew toy if you dont have a cup of concrete and will develop extremely 'annoying' behaviours if you dont treat them like a dog. But nature is too harsh a reality for us in our new off the plan homes, our 2 cars, out big screen tv, credit card, morteined and dettol'ed world. Dogs are not dog, they're 'Furchildren'. I hate that term ... they are a dog not a child in any form. We would rather spend squillions in rediculous toys then take our breeds ratting, rabbiting, hunting, tracking, running, heck even playing on the beach with the kids. We're sterilising society from the reality of nature and dogs are going too unless we can make the fit into being our 'best friend' or 'childs toy'. We forget we bring a completely different species into our alien, manufactured world and expect it to just cope, nay, thrive to our expectations.

3) attaching human like qualities to a creature makes the more endearing to us. We now feel like we're relating to that creature on a level we understand. Unfortunately that means the dog has to learn to understand what you're on about instead of us, the supposedly more intelligent species (), because we barely understand them at all.

I do remember one bloke we had in puppy class. Now he was awesome. Came in with his puppy and of course everyone asked 'whats his name'

Dog.

A few people were in awe. One shrieked 'oh how could you call him that!'

Because he's a dog. My last dog was called Dog, my next dog will be called Dog, because thats what they are. He doesnt care what I call him as long as I feed him, walk him and treat him right.

That was a truely intelligent man.

No, that was an absolute A$$HOLE who treats an animal like a "thing" - every dog has it's own personality, not human - canine - and deserves it's own name.

Edited January 31, 2011 by poodlemum

[ruffpup]

I don't have a problem with mummy or daddy, though mummy has always been my own mother, whether it's her dogs or mine (so the dogs don't get confused). I can't see that they'd attach any meaning to the words, certainly not what we use those words for.

I am definitely guilty of attributing human actions and behaviour to dogs. One dog I had especially (others did it to a much lesser extent) - when I got sick, to the extent of "being sick in the loo" - would sit outside the loo and wait. When I was ok, she'd come up and put one paw on me and pat me, and not move away until I told her a few times I was all right. If I took too long being sick she'd do the same thing, come in and pat me with one paw gently. She always did it.

I likened that to human behaviour. Maybe it's not, it might just be concern common to many animal species. But as others say, we're human. We don't really know what goes in in people's brains much less other species. We compare what we know.

[rastus_froggy]

I still can't even bring myself to give a dog a "human name" they have to be other names.

[BonJosie]

I do remember one bloke we had in puppy class. Now he was awesome. Came in with his puppy and of course everyone asked 'whats his name'

Dog.

That was a truely intelligent man.

No, that was an absolute A$$HOLE who treats an animal like a "thing" - every dog has it's own personality, not human - canine - and deserves it's own name.

Or maybe he was just a fan of Mad Max...

[DerRottweiler]

I think there is a difference between treating your dog like a child and giving it presents and all that weird behaviour and using words to describe its behaviour. Like I know for a fact, when my dog is in a good mood, now I know it is wrong to use the word 'mood' here, but, there really isn't any other way to describe animal behaviour, so we use words that we can associate with the dog's behaviour. He gets excited for example, when it is time for his run, this is obvious in his behaviour. I don't think that comes under the ambit of anthropomorphism.

[haven]

No, that was an absolute A$$HOLE who treats an animal like a "thing" - every dog has it's own personality, not human - canine - and deserves it's own name.

Why? The dog certainly doesn't care! That he has a name is important, what that name is is purely for our benefit only.

[kelpiekaye]

I break all the rules. Mine eat off my fork, sleep on the bed, lay around on the lounge, get presents, have parties, wear clothes, refer to ourselves and "mummy and daddy". I call them my babies, kiss and cuddle them.

and couldn't give two shits what name people like to call it. I love them and they are all, happy and healthy.

There are no Rules. If you are Happy and your dogs are happy all is well. We would make our self sick trying to please everyone else because you never can.