jacqui835 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Well just had the dog down at the beach again and we had an awesome time. He has finally learned not to drink the sea water (he saves himself for the toilet back home :S) and he's now a very competent and fast swimmer so it's heaps of fun for all of us. However, today 2 GSD's were trying to walk past us whilst we were swimming around. Our dog was off-lead, but when I saw the 2 shepherds lunging at him and he of course was ready, though a bit cautious, to go up and say hi I told him to wait and he did. This made the 2 guys with the GSD's stop and wait too. My dog as most of you know is not desexed, and is a dobe x rottie, and I could see this guy had 1 older male entire shepherd and one younger female so I needed to be there for the intro. When I got to him, I asked the guy if his dogs were ok with other dogs, and he said yes and they weren't growling or anything, so I told mine he could say hello. He greeted the older male first, and that was fine, mine was respectful allowing the other dog to do what he wanted first, then a quick sniff, then moved on. The female however lunged and snapped at him, not entirely aggressively, as soon as he was within range. At this point I realised the guy was an idiot, because he started patting her and cuddling her and telling her she was a good girl but not to do that, all in a stupid voice that was in my opinion inappropriate for any dog let alone an obviously high drive GSD. She was half playing though, which my dog picked up on and so he wasn't all that phased. The owner got down and sort of hugged her and started trying to call my dog over because he reckoned she wouldn't do anything when he was this close to her. My dog stood at my side and just looked at me, I said nothing. Guy then told us she was the same age as mine and seemed to think that was an excuse for her bad behaviour, but seemed a bit lost when we told him our dog was the same age - and perfectly obedient and calm. Anyway, he then lost control of the female, who the whole time had been pulling and trying to get at my dog, and she raced after him. He was bigger than her and again she didn't seem entirely aggressive, just a bit crazy so I wasn't too worried. They ran for a bit, she wouldn't follow my dog into the water so he seemed quite safe but soon after I called my dog back, and the other guy was able to grab her leash when she followed him. He's laughing the whole time and again rewards her behaviour with hugs etc and saying that's she's impossible to get back if not on a lead. I asked then if she was desexed, and he said no, she's too pretty to desex, I have to breed her first. Before I could say anything, he added, she's on heat now too which makes her harder to control. I really had nothing to say to that. After this they kept walking, and though my dog followed her for a bit maybe 10m, when I called him back, he came immediately and didn't try and leave my side anymore. So I guess I'm confused, because although I find my dog very manageable and obedient despite being entire, I always figured that if we came up against a female on heat he'd just go crazy and that was the one thing where I would really lose out against someone with a desexed dog. But although he obviously liked her (despite being crazy she was a good looking animal, nice straight back and everything so I approve lol) he wasn't hard to control at all. Plus they had the other male with her, also obviously entire and he barely seemed to notice either of them. Does this mean the guy was wrong about his bitch? He was an idiot but he reckoned he'd bred all of his GSD's before desexing them so surely he'd be able to tell? I've never seen an entire dog near a bitch on heat so I've no idea how they respond, but I expected something more than this so right now I guess I think he was mistaken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) I have an entire male who has been used so knows what it is all about. He flirts with all girls and a little more so with bitches who aren't ready to who aren't ready to stand and does recall back very quickly BUT I know I can call him off a bitch who is ready to mate because I have done it when the bitch owner didn't even realise the bitch was in season (coated breed) till my dog started to mount her. He has an almost perfect recall and he came straight to me when I called. He did moon after her for the rest of the trial Most male dogs do know when a bitch is ready to mate and we have run several males offlead with bitches who aren't standing (just coming in) and there has been no aggression and the younger males have defered to the older more dominant male. ETA My next door neighbour has had his daughters dog there who is in season. I had to take my boy to work on Thur as he was threatening to go over the fence when they had her in the backyard. Today he couldn't care less so she is obvioiusly past the time of mating. Edited January 29, 2011 by Janba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 It all sounds to pattern to me. The bitch will not make it easy for the Male/s. If she is not bonded to a male, which can happen, she will expect the stronger dog to earn the right. Males can and do become quite timid around a fertile bitch. The bitch says who and when. You will get to recognise the 'dance' if you see it often enough I think you ae quite right about the owner of the other dogs. He's an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 My last entire male wouldn't touch a bitch in heat until I let him - he'd do a lot of licking and show a heck of a lot of interest, but wouldn't dare mount unless I said it was OK - and he was a 47kg (lean) Rottweiler. Oh - and he was the biggest sooky la-la dog I've ever had... *grin* T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 My boy Mistral isn't interested in a bitch in season unless she is ready to mate. Every other time he will have a sniff and walk off, she's not interesting yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 If she is not bonded to a male, which can happen, she will expect the stronger dog to earn the right. I have a friend who has a bitch of a different breed to my male and, they love each other whether she is in season or not. She won't have a bar of the resident male of the same breed or the dog she was sent to but will flag at my boy from almost the moment she comes in. He's not allowed near her now when she is due in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Yeah I did get the sense she was sort of trying to challenge him, it wasn't quite full play but wasn't a fight either if you know what I mean. My dog wasn't scared of her, he just gave her room and evaded her attempts to snap at him, he made no efforts to bite her back or anything, but it was strange, because normally when a dog snaps at him he backs right off and does his best to ignore them, especially if they're on lead and he can just walk away. In this case though, he stayed as close to her as he could without her being able to bite him and looked very interested and friendly. He was bigger than her (though she was quite a large dog herself) so maybe that makes a difference to whether they're timid of them? When she managed to run off (though her lead was still on) she sort of charged at my dog and they ran along side by side, but it was way more intense than usual play. She was definitely chasing him but he wasn't really running away so much as running with her. He literally didn't even hesitate though when I called him, he turned mid run as he always does and came straight back. I'm very proud of him My dog is always nice to females too, ie will let them take his things whereas with males, even his best friends, he won't give whatever he's holding at the time. Does that change if you desex them? He was looking out after her and sniffing a lot, but it wasn't like where there's a rabbit or something, and I can keep him at my side but he's almost shaking kind of thing. And yeah I know, we're trying to work on getting the prey drive under control but as our ex-neighbours had a free-range rabbit that used to come into our yard, he has a bit of an obsession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) If she is not bonded to a male, which can happen, she will expect the stronger dog to earn the right. I have a friend who has a bitch of a different breed to my male and, they love each other whether she is in season or not. I have a breeding pair and the bitch is monogamous. The Male thinKs he's Errol Flynn. (Errol should have been so lucky) Edited January 29, 2011 by pewithers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Yeah I did get the sense she was sort of trying to challenge him, it wasn't quite full play but wasn't a fight either if you know what I mean. My dog wasn't scared of her, he just gave her room and evaded her attempts to snap at him, he made no efforts to bite her back or anything, but it was strange, because normally when a dog snaps at him he backs right off and does his best to ignore them, especially if they're on lead and he can just walk away. In this case though, he stayed as close to her as he could without her being able to bite him and looked very interested and friendly. He was bigger than her (though she was quite a large dog herself) so maybe that makes a difference to whether they're timid of them? When she managed to run off (though her lead was still on) she sort of charged at my dog and they ran along side by side, but it was way more intense than usual play. She was definitely chasing him but he wasn't really running away so much as running with her. He literally didn't even hesitate though when I called him, he turned mid run as he always does and came straight back. I'm very proud of him My dog is always nice to females too, ie will let them take his things whereas with males, even his best friends, he won't give whatever he's holding at the time. Does that change if you desex them? He was looking out after her and sniffing a lot, but it wasn't like where there's a rabbit or something, and I can keep him at my side but he's almost shaking kind of thing. And yeah I know, we're trying to work on getting the prey drive under control but as our ex-neighbours had a free-range rabbit that used to come into our yard, he has a bit of an obsession. Sounds like she was not ready to mate but trying out potential mates. There is a definite dance before they are ready to mate and you may have just seen that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 The bitches behaviour was perfectly normal if she was in season but not ready to mate. They tease the males then snap at them and the males know to keep just out of teeth range. It should never escalate to a fight. It is all part of the courting ritual. You boy would have been interested but not enough to be distracted from you if she was in the early stages. What does worry me though is the owner letting you bring an entire male near his when he has the female kennelmate in season there. It could have ended in a massive dog fight with the other dog trying to protect her. I never risk allowing an entire male near another entire male unless you know the dog really well and the dogs have been very carefully introduced. At times we have been able to run 5 males together but these dogs all knew each other well. I have selected males I know that I allow my boy to say hello to but have seen too many fights between entire males over the years to ever risk a strange dog getting near enough to attack. My current boy loves all dogs and I am not going to risk that temperament by letting something attack him. Oh, BTW it is actually against the law to walk a bitch in season in a public place, except at a dog show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 What does worry me though is the owner letting you bring an entire male near his when he has the female kennelmate in season there. When I have run a dog wiith other entire males round a bitch just coming into season I have known all the other dogs, as has my dog, and what they are like as well as the dogs knowing the bitch. I wouldn't try it with an unknown male. Oh, BTW it is actually against the law to walk a bitch in season in a public place, except at a dog show. Or at an ANKC herding trial - I don't know about schutzhund trials or other non ANKC events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Oh, BTW it is actually against the law to walk a bitch in season in a public place, except at a dog show. glad that isn't the case in this country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all creatures Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I am surprised the other male didn't react? I had an entire male - the major hassle I had on the beach was other males attacking him!? It was weird.....he never started a fight as far as I could see? Well done for having your own dog under such good control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 I am surprised the other male didn't react? I had an entire male - the major hassle I had on the beach was other males attacking him!? It was weird.....he never started a fight as far as I could see? Well done for having your own dog under such good control. Well to be fair the male shep appeared to be a lot older, perhaps too old for these sorts of things? He was white around the face and his fur scruffy and he walked with obvious discomfort in his back legs. It's true that as an entire male desexed males will sometimes take offense and try to dominate him. He ignores it if the dog is smaller, and typically they back off when he looks at them discerningly. If larger or close to his size, he evades and I will step in and shoo them off. This is rare though. The guy really came across as a moron and he had no control over her at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_inoz Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 As people have commented - the guy is a bit of an idiot. Also putting his girl at risk for picking up infections whilst she is in season. Just on the whole 'not showing interest til ready' thing... A breeder told me the story of how his dogs know that when one of the bitches come into season, they are taken out of the kennel and they can't get to them. He used to be able to wait until the boys started showing interest (sniffing) and then remove the girls as they were just coming in. The boys are quite sneaky now. A bitch can be in full season and if the breeder is around, they won't show any interest in her at all - hoping he won't notice. It only happened once - (and she wasn't mated) but he obviously checks the girls all the time and doesn't wait for the boys to start showing interest in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 The boys are quite sneaky now. A bitch can be in full season and if the breeder is around, they won't show any interest in her at all - hoping he won't notice. Little buggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 As people have commented - the guy is a bit of an idiot. Also putting his girl at risk for picking up infections whilst she is in season.Just on the whole 'not showing interest til ready' thing... A breeder told me the story of how his dogs know that when one of the bitches come into season, they are taken out of the kennel and they can't get to them. He used to be able to wait until the boys started showing interest (sniffing) and then remove the girls as they were just coming in. The boys are quite sneaky now. A bitch can be in full season and if the breeder is around, they won't show any interest in her at all - hoping he won't notice. It only happened once - (and she wasn't mated) but he obviously checks the girls all the time and doesn't wait for the boys to start showing interest in them. show me any study that proves this to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poocow Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 May I ask why you just don't desex your crossbreed dog? Then you wouldn't have to worry about coming across bitches in season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erinonthefarm Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 May I ask why you just don't desex your crossbreed dog? Then you wouldn't have to worry about coming across bitches in season. I was wondering the same thing but assumed the dog to be young and not desexed as he was still growing. I have the same concerns with my dog (he's only 4 months ATM but later down the track) but he won't be being desexed until after 18 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 It would appear Jacqui835 is a great responsible dog owner and has her dog well trained so why not leave the decision re desexing to her? Ok so there can be the slight risk of health problems but there can also be problems after desexing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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