Montage Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) Well today we had our third round of vaccinations for Baxter. The vet who treated him today saw him last month and said his back leg was a bit sore. They talked about x-rays etc and to see him in a month. I didn't want to see this vet again because they're junior and I wanted the senior vet who treats our older dog and is qualified in orthopaedic surgery.Unfortunately the senior vet was called away to an emergency and I got stuck with the junior vet. They extended his leg again and believe it's sore because he wiggles. They didn't even ask to see him walk or anything. They wanted to book him in for x-rays and the possibility of a juvenile pubic symphiodesis on Monday but I'm getting a second opinion from another vet in about an hour. My sister who is a breeder, show person and judge hit the roof when I told her about it and got me a last minute appointment with a senior vet she trusts. The breeder thinks this is all BS because Baxter is still growing. Baxter does not exhibit any signs of limping, pain, he runs up and down stairs and is an active boy. I'm a bit upset right now at the prospect of putting my four month old through orthopaedic surgery. If this other vet concurs with the vet I saw earlier then I'm happy to go ahead with x-raying him. I just don't feel comfortable putting him through a procedure recommended by a junior vet. I realise this may sound a bit snobbish but as an RN who works closely with surgeons I'm only too familiar with the differences between a consultant and a registrar. Has anyone here had any experience with JPS? Edited January 29, 2011 by Montage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) Call me a cycnic but I think this early diagnosis ( or not ) of HD and the "preventative" surgery is a money making scheme. There is no way on this earth I would be making any decisions about surgery on a young pup. I'd xray and hip score, some time around 12-18 months and go from there. I would limit his activities to walking and playing on flat ground. No stairs, no excessive jumping and not over doing it on the leash. ETA: Our baby Staffords see the chiro on a regular basis. Over the years we have found it very beneficial to keep them aligned, whilst growing and maturing. Edited January 28, 2011 by ReadySetGo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montage Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Update: The second vet could not find anything wrong with Baxter's hips. I'll keep an eye on anything unusual but for now I'm not going to have him x-rayed unnecessarily. RSG-How long would you keep his activity limited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 You don't wrap them up in cotton woll but at the same time you don't let them do things like , run up and down the stairs repeatedly, jump off things , take them for more than a 5 or ten minute walk ( while they are babies ), try and limit the rough play. Staffords will be Staffords and they play hard and fast. Find yourself a good chiro and see them every month or two while they are growing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) I got told the EXACT same thing when I took my baby in for just the checkup from picking her up from her breeder. She hadn't been limping or favouring anything. She had a hernia that I wanted fixed so she had xrays at the same time and the vet told me she would have severe HD by the time she is 12 months and wanted me to do JPS straight way, but as she was a very special puppy and was/is my foundation bitch (which they knew) I baulked straight away and got a second opinion. That vet said she was fine but I booked in too see an Orthopedic Specialist and he gave her the all clear. We have since changed vets after being with them for 8 years. She is now 6 months old and is perfectly healthy, when she has her hips done I will be taking her scores back to show the original vet. Definately don't do the procedure without a specialists opinion. Do a search through the forum on JPS and you will find a fair amount of information and opinions, and my threads will come up more than likey Edited January 28, 2011 by tollersowned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Update: The second vet could not find anything wrong with Baxter's hips. It's not the first time I've seen that scenario played out in the forums. First vet wants to rush to hip surgery on a young pup. Second vet can't find anything wrong. Makes a second opinion essential it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stolzseinrotts Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Call me a cycnic but I think this early diagnosis ( or not ) of HD and the "preventative" surgery is a money making scheme.There is no way on this earth I would be making any decisions about surgery on a young pup. I'd xray and hip score, some time around 12-18 months and go from there. I would limit his activities to walking and playing on flat ground. No stairs, no excessive jumping and not over doing it on the leash. ETA: Our baby Staffords see the chiro on a regular basis. Over the years we have found it very beneficial to keep them aligned, whilst growing and maturing. I agree with you about the money making scheme. I really get annoyed at some Vets and their need / drive to make money and or do unnecessary surgery.....it makes my blood boil. As advised, Limit the activity until the growth plates have closed over, you can still do all doggy things but with care and I recommend seeing a chiro / physio on a regular basis. I am so very very glad to hear that this "Urgent surgery" was not needed and totally uncalled for. And I am sure your puppy is happy about not having to endure this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montage Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Thanks for the responses guys. I certainly wasn't going to have my dog sedated and x-rayed before getting a second even third opinion. We don't walk Baxter for very long-10 minutes at max and it's usually every second night with this weather. He's not jumping much yet but he loves running around with our elderly dog. The stairs can be managed with a barrier. I prefer he stays downstairs because it's our cats territory and she doesn't like dogs very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Makes you wonder who many first time doggy owners get talked into having this type of surgery when it isn't required. Glad all was OK for your dog and I would be doing the same once you have hip scores done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montage Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 If we have any reason for concern we will get Baxter looked at when he's fully grown. But for now he's fine and as the other vet says shows no signs of HD . Maybe I brought this on myself because I asked this vet to look at his legs during his first checkup? I just though it was part of assessing the dog, looking at the hips for soundness. Anyway from now on we certainly won't be taking any of our animals back to the junior vet. Not only would this have cost a lot of money but would have put my pup through an unnecessary procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) Call me a cycnic but I think this early diagnosis ( or not ) of HD and the "preventative" surgery is a money making scheme.There is no way on this earth I would be making any decisions about surgery on a young pup. I'd xray and hip score, some time around 12-18 months and go from there. I would limit his activities to walking and playing on flat ground. No stairs, no excessive jumping and not over doing it on the leash. ETA: Our baby Staffords see the chiro on a regular basis. Over the years we have found it very beneficial to keep them aligned, whilst growing and maturing. I agree with you about the money making scheme. I really get annoyed at some Vets and their need / drive to make money and or do unnecessary surgery.....it makes my blood boil. To an extent, I do agree and I have heard some shocking stories of Vets doing the surgery on dogs who don't even have bad hips, but purely because of the breed and the possibility they might in the future. In terms of making money, well it depends on how you look at it. They would make money from the initial surgery, but if the hips are then great, there's no money to be made after. Where as if they do nothing, the dog will likely return for many more consults, xrays, medications etc etc. So you could argue that NOT doing it could be a money making thing too. But at the same time, it is a great thing they are doing with the surgery - much less invasive and from what I've read, seems to have pretty god results, so if a dog did indeed have not so great hips at that young age (and yes, puppies can and do have shocking hips at that age which are clearly not going to get better) then I think it's a great option to have. But in saying that, it's not something I would necessarily do based on one vets quick opinion. I would have xrays done and also probably consult with an Orth Specialist. Edited January 28, 2011 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordogs Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Here we go again, this will not go away, I have had it with these vets, I have a litter ATM aged 7 weeks and they will all leave home with a big red letter to BEWARE OF VETS THAT BRING UP THE SUBJECT OF JPS SURGERY. Yes we are all aware that HD can crop up anywhere in any breed BUT they are trying to convince owners that they can (vets) can reduce the possibility of their precious puppy of ever getting HD, even in breeds that must have hip & elbow result prior to being registered with the Canine Council. They use scare tactics, they can see Bugger all from PENN HIP xrays at 4 months, and PENN HIP xrays have to be assessed to be of any use and your local vet cannot do that. OK enough said, I have already dealt with vets in ACT re this subject Plus another in the Newcastle area. ALL WE CAN DO IS TO WARN ALL PUPPY BUYERS TO BEWARE OF VETS WHO TALK TO THEM ABOUT JPS SURGERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montage Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Believe me I had alarm bells going off in my head as soon as this vet started talking about it. They did not ask to see Baxter walk or anything. The other vet did a much thorough examination and said there were no signs of luxtation. So here I have a dog that does not limp, can run with no difficulty and simply because he wiggled when they extended their back leg they want to put him under sedation and are talking about surgery already? . Ummm thanks but no thanks. I feel really uncomfortable going back to this place now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordogs Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 GOOD FOR YOU FIND ANOTHER VET !!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordogs Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) Sorry edited for double post Edited January 30, 2011 by Fordogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montage Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 I just hope that this doesn't impact on us getting pet insurance. If Baxter does not have a problem now but later on in life gets arthritis will this mean it's a pre-existing condition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I don't know the answer to that one, but as there's nothing wrong with him now I wouldn't think so. My dogs haven't had HD, touch wood, but my 1st border collie April had a sore on her nose that wouldn't heal. I took her to my local vet & saw a brand new junior vet. She had me in tears by the end of the consult by saying April would need a biopsy, plastic surgery & skin grafts to fill the hole left by surgery on her nose. I went to another vet I knew from my obedience club who also has borders & the 1st thing she did was a skin scraping that showed nothing. Sent us home with ointment & some tablets & the sore cleared up in about a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didles Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 We went through this with our pup last year, we went to 2 vets and both said the same thing that he had HD one was without even doing x-rays but for him it was visable when he was walking. We had huge success with the surgery had a check up and his hips are not popping at all now. Don't need to go back for any more check ups just go to our normal vet I understand people feeling the way they do but in our case he did not want to move about. In our case it has not been a money making scheme because we were told on the 6 mth check that he doesn't need to come anymore, I feel the other way a vet that says yes he has that lets leave but I want to see you every 3-6months here is this medication thats more money making as it is $100+ a visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feistylady Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Thanks for the responses guys. I certainly wasn't going to have my dog sedated and x-rayed before getting a second even third opinion. We don't walk Baxter for very long-10 minutes at max and it's usually every second night with this weather. He's not jumping much yet but he loves running around with our elderly dog. The stairs can be managed with a barrier. I prefer he stays downstairs because it's our cats territory and she doesn't like dogs very much I am so glad this has turned out well for you Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 99% of 4 month old puppies will wriggle if you extend their legs, especially if you don't give them any warning or are rough. Sometimes puppies will yelp or wriggle at the shock/fright of having their legs extended, especially if they are not used to it or the vet isn't very gentle and does it too quickly. Very poor practice of the vet to even talk about xrays and surgery without taking a more detailed history and performing a proper physical exam. I believe JPS has a place for puppies already showing clinical signs of HD and poor xrays but this would be very rare in pups of such a young age. I am glad you have found another vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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