Is It Just Me, Or Do Some People Just Don't Get It ?

[BMAK]

Just a frustrating rant.

At obedience training there are many wonderful people trying to do the right thing by there dog lovely to talk to (sometimes), but they just don't get IT and by it, I mean listening and following instructions and dog etiquette even after the hundreds of times when told either by instructor of by other people.

At your obedience club what are a few of the things you notice that people repeaditively do whether not listening and following in training classes etc..

my short list for today>>>

*people letting there dog wonder on there long leads ahead of the owner into every man and there dog's face with out asking first (IS it me or do peple just not get it?) not every dog is friendly

*what is even more frustrating people approaching dogs who are tied up with no owner!

* people who know what there dog is like but let them do it anyway eg; take off lead, dog runs away. dog is aggressive, and don't avoid it or correct the behaviour.

* the one that get's me the most, personal experience, one of my dogs is dog aggressive not savage.

A particular woman (a flipping instructor) will constantly let her dog wonder up to him to greet him and i keep moving away she keeps getting closer with her dog even after telling her for the 1000000th time she won't pull her dog back but will keep a loose lead and call him 99/100 time he doesn't respond until the 5 call by that time my dog would have snapped at him a few times but he has a muzzel which means my dog gets a correction for snapping when it would have been avoided.

I'm trying to do the right thing by my dog and she doesn't get it WTFFF! maybe i shuld just let my dog have a go to made sure it gets in her thick skull.

end rant.... anyone else want to join hahah

sorry if it sounds a bit parranoid but it happens all so often at this club! the club has had many meetings and all instructors know..

[Staranais]

Leave the club, and tell them why you're going. An uncontrolled & chaotic environment isn't helpful for anyone's dog, but for a DA dog it's 1000 times worse. You might not be able to control how people act at the club, but you can stop putting your dog into that situation.

Speaking as someone who has had a DA dog at several clubs, taking him to a place like that & then correcting him for snapping when he's being harrassed will not be helping him learn to be relaxed around other dogs.

I also would not care to take instruction at a club where the instructor's dog has no recall.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Staranais

[minxy]

Exactly what Staranais said. I wouldn't continue going there.

[poodlefan]

Rather than vent here about it, why not confront the issue head on.

Next time your problem dog approaches, gather yourself up and yell in your best parade ground voice:

I've told you my dog is dog aggressive - what part of "aggressive" don't you understand!! Keep your bloody dog away from mine or I'll take the muzzle off.

Edited January 26, 2011 by poodlefan

[B-Q]

Rather than vent here about it, why not confront the issue head on.

Next time your problem dog approaches, gather yourself up and yell in your best parade ground voice:

I've told you my dog is dog aggressive - what part of "aggressive" don't you understand!! Keep your bloody dog away from mine or I'll take the muzzle off.

:D

here here.

Buster's DA isn't controlled enough to take him to classes but learning to find my voice has made it a hell of a lot easier to walk him. Quiet a few people have copped it from me in the last few years.

Edited January 27, 2011 by busterlove

[poodlefan]

On the advice to leave the club I can only say this: Idiots are everywhere.

Club officials also can't do anything about a problem if they don't know its happening. Perhaps a quick polite email to the Senior Instructor or President might be a good addition to direct action.

[Staranais]

It's true Poodlefan, you can never entirely avoid idiots. But with my own DA dog, I found that some obedience clubs had club cultures that were much safer & more accommodating for him than others.

It pays to shop around when choosing an Ob club, in my experience, especially if you have a special needs dog.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Staranais

[Jigsaw]

Just an acknowledgment that all dog's should be on leash when arriving or leaving the grounds and this applies even to members who've been attending for many years, and no matter how well trained their dog is.

[corvus]

As the owner of two quite social and friendly dogs, I will admit that it is easy to forget or become nonchalant. Every time I think "Oh, maybe I'll stop this" and if something happens so that I don't manage to stop it and then nothing happens as a result, I'm reinforced for not trying very hard. If I decide I'm either going to stop it or not try to stop it, then chances are I will get lazy and not try as often as I should. Every time I decide not to try and nothing happens, I'm reinforced for not trying. It's the same way criteria slip when you're training, really. Mind you, I'm not to the point yet where I would let my dogs walk up to a muzzled dog, or one I know is leery of other dogs. Even when people say it is fine I don't want to make the other dog feel anxious and risk reinforcing it for being snappy. I find owners aren't always brilliant and knowing where their dog's threshold lies. But then, maybe it goes the other way for them as well. They make a mistake, dog snaps, and that's where it ends. They realise that wasn't so bad and don't pay as close attention next time.

Anyway, if someone yelled at me I'd be mortified. But maybe sometimes I need to be yelled at before I can blithely walk into making a mistake. I'm not making excuses for anyone, but maybe it would help to see it from the POV of the person with the friendly dog. Maybe they are focused on their dog and see your muzzled dog and think of it as safe because it is muzzled and therefore can't hurt their dog. Each time they let their dog interact with yours and their dog doesn't get hurt and they don't get told off, you're just letting the habit perpetuate itself. My guess is it's not so much the person doesn't "get it", but the balance of reinforcement is in favour of them repeating the behaviour over and over again. Approach it like a dog training problem.

[poodlefan]

As the owner of two quite social and friendly dogs, I will admit that it is easy to forget or become nonchalant. Every time I think "Oh, maybe I'll stop this" and if something happens so that I don't manage to stop it and then nothing happens as a result, I'm reinforced for not trying very hard. If I decide I'm either going to stop it or not try to stop it, then chances are I will get lazy and not try as often as I should. Every time I decide not to try and nothing happens, I'm reinforced for not trying. It's the same way criteria slip when you're training, really. Mind you, I'm not to the point yet where I would let my dogs walk up to a muzzled dog, or one I know is leery of other dogs. Even when people say it is fine I don't want to make the other dog feel anxious and risk reinforcing it for being snappy. I find owners aren't always brilliant and knowing where their dog's threshold lies. But then, maybe it goes the other way for them as well. They make a mistake, dog snaps, and that's where it ends. They realise that wasn't so bad and don't pay as close attention next time.

Anyway, if someone yelled at me I'd be mortified. But maybe sometimes I need to be yelled at before I can blithely walk into making a mistake. I'm not making excuses for anyone, but maybe it would help to see it from the POV of the person with the friendly dog. Maybe they are focused on their dog and see your muzzled dog and think of it as safe because it is muzzled and therefore can't hurt their dog. Each time they let their dog interact with yours and their dog doesn't get hurt and they don't get told off, you're just letting the habit perpetuate itself. My guess is it's not so much the person doesn't "get it", but the balance of reinforcement is in favour of them repeating the behaviour over and over again. Approach it like a dog training problem.

If a muzzled dog isn't telling people to stay away, I'm buggered if I can figure out what will. A muzzled dog is completely unable to defend itself if a dog takes exception to being snapped at. All the more reason to intervene assertively.

Corvus for some people what's right for them is right. They don't give toss what other people's dogs might think of an approach as long as theirs gets to do what it likes. Yellng is both startling and in a crowd embarassing for the approaching person. Negative reinforcement can be called for if that's what is needed to stop people taking liberties with your dog.

I've also had people let their dogs approach my tied up dog at the dog club. I haven't hesitate to yell "what do you think you're doing?" - when my dog's safety is at issue, I'll act like a crazy dog person every time.

[JulesP]

It isn't you. Some people are just dumb.

[huski]

Our club has a policy that any dog on a stake out peg or wearing a yellow ribbon must be given space and most people are good at remembering this, they also mention it in announcements before classes start each night.

I agree though that some people are just stupid. For an instructor to act that way is terrible IMO. I've run into my fair share of stupid instructors including one who looked at my dog and said "why would you even bother with one of those?"

[Agility Dogs]

Club officials also can't do anything about a problem if they don't know its happening. Perhaps a quick polite email to the Senior Instructor or President might be a good addition to direct action.

HERE HERE. I had a problem with one of the clubs I was training at - my boy was being harrassed by another dog and each time it happened it escalated. The dog belonged to the chief instructor who couldn't see a problem, even when the dog dragged her across a field to attack CK.

The dog has done it to others and no one had said anything because of who owned the dog, but the last situation was just over the top and I felt something had to be done.

I made such a noise that the issue as osetnsibly been addressed, but I have since left the club because there has been no outline of how to move forward.

There are idiots everywhere, but when things are like that its just not worth putting your dog in the line of fire.

[corvus]

If a muzzled dog isn't telling people to stay away, I'm buggered if I can figure out what will. A muzzled dog is completely unable to defend itself if a dog takes exception to being snapped at. All the more reason to intervene assertively.

We know that, but who knows what is going on in someone else's head? I think it's kind of human psychology that when there is a "safety net" we don't take as much care. Consequences dictate how careful we are. Says the girl who has been bitten by a lot of small animals that don't do much damage but nothing that is actually dangerous.

Corvus for some people what's right for them is right. They don't give toss what other people's dogs might think of an approach as long as theirs gets to do what it likes. Yellng is both startling and in a crowd embarassing for the approaching person. Negative reinforcement can be called for if that's what is needed to stop people taking liberties with your dog.

I guess some people are lost causes. Whatever the case, providing a negative consequence ought to make them rethink their behaviour. I don't have a problem with anyone yelling at people that have been told and still can't manage to show you and your dog an iota of respect by actually listening. My point was just that human behaviour is generally influenced by the same learning theory that dog behaviour is. If they keep doing it, the balance of reinforcement is such that it's the natural thing for them to do and they may not even think about it consciously. Should we blame them for that? Maybe not, but that's not to say that we can't do anything about it. I would apply a punishment myself as well.

Of course, people have that complicated psychology that makes things more difficult sometimes. It's sometimes more rewarding to pretend your dog is a perfect angel or you have brilliant social skills than to acknowledge the problem and fix it so you don't have to kid yourself. Shouting it out is confronting, but maybe too confronting if it puts the person on the defensive. Then again, maybe it's perfect. What do I know.

[poodlefan]

Of course, people have that complicated psychology that makes things more difficult sometimes. It's sometimes more rewarding to pretend your dog is a perfect angel or you have brilliant social skills than to acknowledge the problem and fix it so you don't have to kid yourself. Shouting it out is confronting, but maybe too confronting if it puts the person on the defensive. Then again, maybe it's perfect. What do I know.

For people who fail to heed less drastic methods, the 180 decibel approach is about all that works I'm afraid. I'd not use it as a first course of action but with some people you have to escalate.

You start with, "can you please keep your dog away from mine".. get to ""excuse me, please keep your dog way and end up at "move your effing dog IDIOT" Of course at that point you get the indignant "but he just wants to say hi" or "aggressive dogs shouldn't be allowed in public" and off they go in a huff, none the wiser

its like offlead situations.. "can you please call your dog".. ""call your dog now please" "call your effing dog!!!"

[Erny]

We know that, but who knows what is going on in someone else's head?

I didn't quote the lot of what you've been saying, but IMO all of that is just an excuse for people being lazy minded. My apologies if that sounds blunt but it is the clearest way I can put it. A lot of people these days talk themselves into reasons for not taking the responsibility of thinking of others first before they think of themselves, or for not thinking at all.

[BMAK]

Rather than vent here about it, why not confront the issue head on.

Next time your problem dog approaches, gather yourself up and yell in your best parade ground voice:

I've told you my dog is dog aggressive - what part of "aggressive" don't you understand!! Keep your bloody dog away from mine or I'll take the muzzle off.

He isn't wearing a muzzel the whole time (only personal space issues) so just when people are arriving and during breaks where he might be left and people are stupid to approach dogs on a pole.

ahh poodlefan

This particular problem is when my boy is being friendly to those few dogs he likes which i allow the other lady approaches while my dog is being so good and she just ucks it and then my dogs social develpoment is over .

I won't be leaving the club as other clubs are at a too far distance there are many great people and i enjoy the classes as he is very well behaved during class. there are just a certain 5-10 % of people who need educating during breaks and arrival i might just start to chatting to the head president.

All dogs are on lead at all times unless in a class where the instructor is doing off lead heel or you are in the highest class sometimes you will get the odd (dumb) person who knows there dog will bolt but try it anyway (thats the only off lead part)

The main instructors who are great at obedience know about my dog. :S Although he is friendly to only a couple of dogs, one lady in particular is fantastic and is always helping and telling people to stand back.

That yellow ribbon sounds smart can you explain more ??

i would like some new rules and guidelines to talk to the chief instructor about when i return. Red poles for aggressive dogs or maybe a sign sticking out of the pole with a colour to let people know.

Any suggestions on how i might be able to alert people to certain dogs rather then handouts to everysingle person?

[huski]

Sure! All we do attach a yellow ribbon to the dog's collar or leash so that it is easily visible. That a yellow ribbon = dog needs space so do not approach it is included in our rule book, in our first nighters hand out, we explain it to people when they join up and whoever is doing the announcements for the evening before class also gives everyone a reminder NOT to approach dogs wearing a yellow ribbon OR dogs who are on a tie out even if they are friendly.

[BMAK]

Thanks huski.

might ask if we can do something similar because just verbal via meeting and the P.A systems don't do much.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Sure! All we do attach a yellow ribbon to the dog's collar or leash so that it is easily visible. That a yellow ribbon = dog needs space so do not approach it is included in our rule book, in our first nighters hand out, we explain it to people when they join up and whoever is doing the announcements for the evening before class also gives everyone a reminder NOT to approach dogs wearing a yellow ribbon OR dogs who are on a tie out even if they are friendly.

oh i like this, what a great idea