Emergency Downs

[corvus]

I thought this year I might try training an emergency down. I've been loving Erik's default down and have sworn I'm teaching one to every dog I get from now on, and given lots of people seem to love the emergency down as well, I thought, why not give it a try? Erik is already halfway there.

I'm not entirely sure how one does it. I assume it's a matter of fluency, so I've been trying to trick Erik with his downs lately by asking for them out of usual contexts. It's quite fun trying to think of ways to challenge him. I recently got him holding a down while I walked out of sight with his dinner. That was hard for him, but he's got it, now. Downing facing away from me and his dinner was also hard, but he's got that one nailed now as well. So I started asking for them in motion. This has been met with mixed results. I think he is a little confused. He sometimes does quite well even at a jog when he's at my side, and I've been getting OH to call him and when I shout "down" OH signals it. I think that one might be jumping ahead a bit. So I tried getting him to down on his way to me instead. He is not bad at this one. But sometimes he just stops and looks at me uncertainly. He may or may not down a few moments after stopping.

I guess I'm trying to figure out what the next step is, because I think I've taken several steps at once with all these things I've tried. He can do it, but perhaps asking for several new challenges at once has made him feel uncertain. I get the feeling he's not entirely happy. So where do I go? Down in motion or down coming towards me? Or something else?

[Aidan3]

You can do more than one scenario, but just take a few steps back and make it a bit easier for him; i.e fewer distractions, less distance etc More repetitions for the one thing, really cement it in for him. No rush.

When he understands, then start using a limited hold to reduce latency. For anyone wondering what that is, that is where you allow a certain amount of time after you give a cue for a response. If the response occurs within that time, you reinforce. If it doesn't, you do nothing. Start with about two seconds, then reduce that time.

[Ptolomy]

Corvus are you after something similar to the drop on recall in open obedience??

[corvus]

I'm not sure, Ptolomy. I don't know very much about obedience. I just want him to drop whenever I tell him to regardless of what he's doing. He currently will in many circumstances, but generally not when he's going faster than a walk, or thinking about inviting himself to someone else's game of fetch at the park, for example.

A bit easier, more repetitions. We'll see how that goes. He's a little trooper and he likes doing things fast, so I guess he just needs to be surer of himself. OH recently taught him to throw himself into a combat roll from a run. He has started doing it every time OH calls him over! It's very cute and makes me giggle. E likes it so much he has incorporated it into play. It turns out it's an excellent way to dodge a pursuer when they get too close.

I wonder if my reward is contributing to the confusion at all? I've been cueing a down, then running ahead and releasing him, then rewarding with food when he gets to me. He likes releases, but do you think it's not clear enough?

[JulesP]

For an emergency stop I prefer to use the position that the dog prefers ie sit, stand, drop. For my dogs it is drop.

When I am starting distance work I reward in position. If you are rewarding when he gets to you then you are rewarding the recall. I start a couple of steps away and slowly go backwards. I toss the food usually too rather then going back to the dog.

I also ask the dogs to drop whilst playing in the garden. They think it is a great game. To stop them on the spot I will chuck in a wait before the drop command. This seems to stop the paws and gives them the idea to drop there rather then coming to me and dropping. I am usually giving lots of verbal encouragement too. I don't use food rewards at all for this. Because I usually don't have any!

[Aidan3]

When I am starting distance work I reward in position. If you are rewarding when he gets to you then you are rewarding the recall. I start a couple of steps away and slowly go backwards. I toss the food usually too rather then going back to the dog.

x2

[Ptolomy]

When training the DOR in obedience the biggest problem we have is the dog coming to us for the reward, which is not what we want.

I start teaching the drop at a distance while playing. Pretend to throw a ball the dog will race off to get it (but it is still in my hand) when they turn around to look at me I give them a drop verbal and signal and once they drop I throw the ball. With my kids they catch onto this game very quickly and the drops become lightening fast.

I then start to incorporate the two food game, when I will throw food in one direction and send the dog to go and get it as the dog is returning I will give the drop signal, when the dog drops I will throw food in the other direction and send the dog off to get that again - so each time they are not coming back to me for the reward.

Not sure if this is any help??

[corvus]

Ah, that makes sense, thanks. For the purposes of the exercise, I don't think it matters if he comes to me for a reward when released, but he's a stickler for routines and what holds for one exercise often tends to get applied to others. I think it's better if he doesn't get into the habit of always expecting the reward to come directly from me. I'm currently taking great pains to try to undo all those reward rules he has been using so we can get back to agility.

I had been rewarding in position, but had moved on from there. I'll go back to it until he's more sure of himself again.

[RubyStar]

Ah, that makes sense, thanks. For the purposes of the exercise, I don't think it matters if he comes to me for a reward when released

I think what some were trying to say was the dog does not always automatically drop as soon as the command is issued, they gravitate towards the handler (and possible reward) a bit more before complying. So by throwing the food, the dog is not expecting it to come from you and should drop quicker. Throwing or placing reward behind the dog should help in getting them to drop faster, as they will still be closer to the reward

[corvus]

Oh! I see. ;) Yes, he does currently want to take a step or two after the command is issued in some circumstancs. If he's right by me or heading towards me he doesn't do it much. I just figured once he was sure of himself it would go away or I could shape it away if it didn't go on its own. He's usually pretty fast when he knows what to do. He's used to downing at a distance from me from NILIF at doors and gates and so on.

[corvus]

Much better this evening. Kept the distances shorter and rewarded in position and he was a happy boy. I think he had cottoned on anyway, but it certainly helped. No hesitations, nice, confident, instant downs. And plenty of happy grins. I'm very fond of him right now, the darling! ;)