Abandoned Dogs In Different Countries

[Elina]

This conversation started from 'Caucasian Ovcharka thread' and I was asked if I could start this new thread which I can willingly do.

What I have learned about aussie dog culture within these few moths I have been here, those dogs are not suitable to your environment. You already have too much abandoned dogs (we don't in Finland, instead people are resquing dogs from Estonia, Spain etc.)

Warning, my post is

Hi Elina

Do hope you're still tuned in, or will be soon! I'm very interested in your comment above, from page 3 of this thread. Can you explain why Finland does not have an abandoned dog problem please? As it is off-topic, it would be best if you could start a new thread. Many thanks!

I have found this thread very interesting - I had not heard of the Caucasian Ovcharka before.

What a difficult question and I don't know if I can give absolutely correct answer but I can try. I just want to let you know that this is not 'which country is the best' conversation. I just tell about Finnish dog culture. I know there is people from other European (or other continents) countries as well. They could tell about their countries.

First a little background information. Population in Finland is a bit over five million and estimate is that every fifth household has a dog or two. You are allowed to takes dogs all parks, to buses, trains etc. It is allowed and common to keep dogs in apartments even in city CBD's. It is not allowed to sell puppies in pet stores so most puppies are purchased from responsible breeders who are very thorough to whom they sell their puppies.

People train dogs a lot. We have loads of dog clubs and also commercial training companies etc. Even Finland is a very small country breeders from all over the world respects Finnish dogs, trainers and breeders whether it is about dog shows, obedience, agility or schutchund. We have won world championship and European championship contests in many dog sports. It is easy to travel outside the country border for dog shows and other competitions. It is also easy to import (and export) dogs since we don't have quarantines in Europe.

Of course we have problems as well, but we have quite strict Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act. If you don't take your dog for walks, you may soon have someone knocking on your door and ask some questions. There really isn't many abandoned dogs. With cats situation is a bit more difficult. In greater Helsinki area (about 1 million people live in that area) there is one place where all free roaming animals are taken and they have capacity for 100 animals total. This includes places for cats and all other animals as well. They have told that there haven't ever been a situation that there won't be room for new incoming animals. Basically all dogs who's owners won't come to pick them up, will found new homes, which is just great. We don't really have so many situations that people just abandon their dog. With cats that happen more often, especially after summer :D There have been many campaigns that people wouldn't take "summer cats" and those have worked quite well.

I think what I have said about Finnish dog culture will fit quite well also to Sweden, Norway and Denmark. I don't say that we don't have problems with dogs in these countries, but I think we may have have lesser problems. Because situation in Finland is very good, people who wants to help dogs which have been taken on the custody or are abandoned, travel often to our southern neighbour country Estonia, where situation is totally different. They have very different dog culture than in Finland and many dogs are abandoned and won't find new homes.

Finally apologizes about the misspellings.

[kelpiekaye]

Thats very interesting. I was talking to a guy last night who recently visited Holland. He was shocked to see dogs going everywhere with their owners and being acepted. It was all just normal. Wish it was the same here.

[Flye]

Very interesting insight, it makes me wish Australia were more like Finland.

Do you think that being able to take dogs everywhere with you, means that people value them more? I know if I could take my dog on the bus, to cafes and restaurants, shops, etc. I would be able to spend so much more time with him. It probably results in better behaved dogs as well.

My Dad travelled to the Netherlands quite frequently a few years ago, and he said it is much like that there. You walk into a cafe and most tables have a dog under them, just sleeping with their owners. I can't see that happening in Australia, as many of the dogs would probably be crazy and undersocialised.

It's a real shame, but hopefully the attitude starts to change here.

[sallyandtex]

Thats great about the No pet shops etc. We could take a leaf out of Finlands Book!

Just to throw another spanner in the works I love those Kelpie Pics!(Kelpie Kay) Wow the one with the cat is amazing. Our poor young Kelpie always wants to play with our grumpy cats, and often gets told off!

Edited January 22, 2011 by sallyandtex

[megan_]

Interesting that the dog ownership rate looks to be less than Australia? Only 1/5 of households in Finland have a dog? I think I read somewhere that 1/2 of Australian households have a dog.

This might be (part of) the key to the reason why dogs are treated so well - people only get dogs because they really want them?

Might be a bit contraversial for this forum but I think dog ownership rates in Australia are too high. I know soooo many people who have bought dogs "for the kids". Holidays end, dog gets big, locked out in the backyard before it is given "free to good home" because "we don't have time for the dog".

If people only got a dog after some serious thought, planning etc and because they wanted a dog, then abandonment rates would go down IMO.

[Nekhbet]

people over there have to look after them, not buy them and stick them in a backyard bored or breed it to whatever and dump the pups on whoever. Australias dog ownership rate should be a lot lower then it is too. Unfortunately it's part of the 'australian dream' - the house, the car, the kids, and the bored undersocialised barking dog in the backyard.

[Elina]

Very interesting insight, it makes me wish Australia were more like Finland.

Do you think that being able to take dogs everywhere with you, means that people value them more? I know if I could take my dog on the bus, to cafes and restaurants, shops, etc. I would be able to spend so much more time with him. It probably results in better behaved dogs as well.

I don't know if that makes people value dogs more but I like it. I don't think it does, but it makes dogs more social. Unfortunately Finland is not as dog friendly as Neatherland or Germany. It is not allowed to take dogs to restaurants or cafes in Finland. Still Germany has huge problem with abandoned dogs so it doesn't solve problems.

I tried to find recent information about how many dogs there is in Finland, but couldn't find. If every other household in Australia has dogs, that's shocking. Me and my boyfriend have been house sitting here and it always surprises me that there doesn't really are other dog walkers in suburbans :rolleyes:

[melzawelza]

That is amazing. If only we could get like that here. It will never happen though, an entire culture and attitude towards dogs would have to change.

[Nekhbet]

considering we're the country where people actually complained when they had to stop smoking in the car with their children I dont see the attitude towards animals improving any time soon.

[Tralee]

People train dogs a lot. We have loads of dog clubs and also commercial training companies etc.

Of course we have problems as well, but we have quite strict Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act. If you don't take your dog for walks, you may soon have someone knocking on your door and ask some questions. There really isn't many abandoned dogs.

I think what I have said about Finnish dog culture will fit quite well also to Sweden, Norway and Denmark. I don't say that we don't have problems with dogs in these countries, but I think we may have have lesser problems.

There are two key differences between our two countries.

Firstly, The attitude towards dogs of the majority of Finns is different to our own. This of course creates a social expectation that people will devote a reasonable amount of time raising their dogs to the community's expectations. Dogs in Finland are more than pets, they are a status symbol. Their greater respect towards their dogs is hard to equal.

Secondly, there is a disincentive to taking a dog and not providing for its needs. The dogs welfare is scrutinised and enforced. This in turn is going to deter many uncommitted pet owners.

Also, if you are going to take your dog on public transport and to all the destinations that provides, then it needs to be toilet trained and dog friendly to boot.

It just wouldn't do to have two dogs up the front on a bus with the elderly and disabled going hammer and tong.

Edited January 22, 2011 by pewithers

[Curlybert]

Thanks very much Elina - it's great to have this perspective.

Can you tell us about desexing in Finland? Is it compulsory for dogs that are pets only, that is, that are not show dogs or working sheep or cattle dogs?

[Elina]

Thanks very much Elina - it's great to have this perspective.

Can you tell us about desexing in Finland? Is it compulsory for dogs that are pets only, that is, that are not show dogs or working sheep or cattle dogs?

No, absolutely no compulsory. Most dogs goes without desexing but it is not uncommon either. Usually reasons for desexing is more behavioural (male dogs excessive sexual behaviour etc.) than 'just incase'.

[Katdogs]

This is a very interesting thread and I hope it continues. I was lucky to travel to Europe eight years ago (basic tour through France, Italy and England) but it was before I was a DOLer and I just took photos of dogs without thinking about welfare and social aspects. I do particularly remember seeing a standard Poodle on the Metro in Paris, just travelling like anyone else - never seen that in Sydney! There are some not-so-responsible people though, and the people in Paris aren't very good at picking up poo! Generally though the dogs were very well socialised and sitting under a table or having their playtime in a cobbled square full of pigeons was just life as they knew it. I'm not good at breeds (some long term DOLers will know) but most dogs were an identifiable breed, not so many mixed breeds like here.

OT Elina your English is very good, I appreciate your efforts to join this forum :rolleyes:

[Max#1]

considering we're the country where people actually complained when they had to stop smoking in the car with their children I dont see the attitude towards animals improving any time soon.

Interesting thread. I was in Germany recently. One thing that I'll never forget is being in a pub. At one table was a group of young people, drinking and smoking. At the next table was a family with young children eating dinner. At the next table was a man with his dog. All inside! Can you imagine!

Although, and the fact it was winter may have had something to do with it, I don't remember seeing many dogs around generally. And apart from that, I don't really know anything about dog ownership in Germany.

[Tralee]

I do particularly remember seeing a standard Poodle on the Metro in Paris, just travelling like anyone else - never seen that in Sydney!

I remember seeing a poodle in Paris, but she wasn't on her own. :rolleyes:

She was walking with a lady. I think her name was Fifi.

[Staranais]

Thanks very much Elina - it's great to have this perspective.

Can you tell us about desexing in Finland? Is it compulsory for dogs that are pets only, that is, that are not show dogs or working sheep or cattle dogs?

No, absolutely no compulsory. Most dogs goes without desexing but it is not uncommon either. Usually reasons for desexing is more behavioural (male dogs excessive sexual behaviour etc.) than 'just incase'.

My flatmate is from Sweden - she says it is similar there, that desexing of dogs is far less common than it is here.

[sallyandtex]

I do particularly remember seeing a standard Poodle on the Metro in Paris, just travelling like anyone else - never seen that in Sydney!

I remember seeing a poodle in Paris, but she wasn't on her own.

She was walking with a lady. I think her name was Fifi. ;)

:rolleyes:

You guys crack me up.

Hey Elina, what are the lead-on laws like? Are the dogs all tied up to the tables for example.

[Elina]

considering we're the country where people actually complained when they had to stop smoking in the car with their children I dont see the attitude towards animals improving any time soon.

Interesting thread. I was in Germany recently. One thing that I'll never forget is being in a pub. At one table was a group of young people, drinking and smoking. At the next table was a family with young children eating dinner. At the next table was a man with his dog. All inside! Can you imagine!

Although, and the fact it was winter may have had something to do with it, I don't remember seeing many dogs around generally. And apart from that, I don't really know anything about dog ownership in Germany.

I have stayed six months in Germany as an exchange student and I can confirm that what you saw wasn't uncommon. It was totally normal. Germans have dogs everywhere and they also smoke everywhere :rolleyes: It was also for me to really amazing to see many big dogs meeting each others and even playing in McDonald's! Not going to happen in Finland and what I have understood it definately not going to happen in Australia.

I forgot to ask, is it compulsory to desex pet dogs in Australia? Even it is on compulsory in Finland we actually don't have too much unwanted litters. Again with cats it is more bigger issue and desexing is recommendable.

Have to say that I really had to come to the other side of the world to understand how well things with dogs are in Finland.

[Elina]

Hey Elina, what are the lead-on laws like? Are the dogs all tied up to the tables for example.

Dogs are not allowed to restaurants in Finland. In other parts of Europe, where this is allowed, all dogs what I have seen, have been on-lead.

In Finland in common dogs should be on lead in suburbs and in the bushes dogs should be on lead or so well trained that they you will be able to call your dog when ever it is necessary and take it on lead. I never go for on-lead walks. My border collies are always off lead. Because we live in apartment, I quite often drive a bit further from the all hustle to the forest where they can run as much as they want.

[Curlybert]

Me again, Elina. There are many differing opinions expressed on DOL but one thing most DOLers agree on is that puppy farms are inhumane, are run for profit only, and contribute to the large number of dogs in pounds and shelters around Australia. You probably know from reading DOL threads that puppy farms are a type of intensive farming, where miserable, unhealthy breeding bitches are kept in terrible conditions producing pups every time they come in season.

Do you have puppy farms in Finland?