blue.amstaff Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Just hoping some Staffordshire Bullterrier breeders or someone who knows abit about them could inbox me and explain to me what the problem with blue staffies is? I don't want to cause a huge debate on the forum so please only inbox me. Thanks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Do a search here on DOL, it will answer your queries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue.amstaff Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 I tried. Typed in blue staffies but it just came up with the list of breed chat thread thingos and rescue threads..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Search for 'posts' rather than 'topics' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Recent thread here http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=213239 Absolutely heartbreaking Also there were a couple of threads on this topic not long ago in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue.amstaff Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Recent thread here http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=213239Absolutely heartbreaking Also there were a couple of threads on this topic not long ago in general Thanks Now I'm a little confussed, someone posted something about dilute colour alopecia, I googled it and every website I looked at didn't mention the Stafford at all? Was Dobermans etc etc.. I'm no good with this stuff.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 If you google hip dysplasia how much information comes up about HD in Amstaffs? Just because they don't get a huge mention doesn't mean it isn't an issue. Go back to google and see how many of the websites about Blue Dobermanns are American. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a very rare breed in the USA, they usually never rate a mention in anything canine that comes out of the USA. Have a look at the pictures of the pups on the puppy pages here and see for yourself what is wrong with breeding blue to blue to blue to blue for generations................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.c Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I was curious about this too today as I was reading that other post about the lady with the pup with mange. I had absolutely no idea about it. I just did a topic search and found this thread Blue Staffy Thread It explained things a bit for me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) Ive only half looked at this but from what I can see its more about immune system issues rather than dilute colour alopecia - though there is definitely a risk of this too. Breeders of some breeds have done a good job in testing for things like HD,ED PRA etc - but there are many in all breeds who over looked the fact that immune system problems are also heritable and that dogs which show any symptom of an issue shouldnt be used for breeding. It doesnt matter what you go after with your breeding goals - for colour,conformation, health, temperament etc at the end of the day you get what you select for - but there are always potential consequences.If you are going to breed for colour and over look the health then over a couple of generations you will have lots of dogs with the nice colour but other things which you werent taking so much notice of start to show up. The reality is that regardless of colour, skin problems seem to be relatively common in this breed and SEEM to be more common in blue dogs.However, that may be because many of the breeders who are breeding soley for colour are pretty new to what we do and they are making basic errors in their selection of breeding dogs and that there are so many around. It may also be that its a myth generated by breeders who are against new kids who are breeding for colour. There may be anecdotal evidence that blue staffies may suffer more with skin problems than staffies which are not blue but until we know for sure or until they are diagnosed with dilute colour alopecia that may be untrue. No matter what colour you are aiming for or breeding with you have to know as much detail and information as possible on the ancestors,siblings,aunties , uncles etc and profiling a pedigree is reliant on knowing these things and not just what colour they were or whether there were lots of champions. Problem is this info to date is very difficult to aquire because purebred breeders have not recorded or shared this information and many dont know what to look for in a potential breeding dog and that its not just how the dog looks,whether that be because its a championship potential or a pretty colour. When a breed becomes popular other things happen. For example its assumed Labs have a high incidence of HD so the CC's made testing for them mandatory before litter registration.But Labs are one of the most popular breeds of dogs too.Do they really have a higher incidence of HD than any other breed or do we just see more of them because there is more of the breed? Same with staffies at the moment -just look at the number of pups on the ground advertised in one place right now. So how many of them will have skin problems? Some will - because they are dogs and because there are more of them and we will hear about the itchy ones before we hear about the non itchy ones. Will there be more itchy ones in this breed than there will be in any other breed? Will there be more itchy blue ones than any other colour if we take the amount of each being born into account? How many blue staffies are itchy per 100 born in the first year of their lives in comparison to how many staffies are itchy per 100 of any other colour ? If the blue staffies are more itchy are they being diagnosed with dilute colour alopecia? These are questions we need to have answered urgently in this breed because if it is true and dogs will suffer more because of this quest for blue dogs then there needs to be action taken to stop it. Such as banning the blue x blue matings etc. But you have to be sure first you are not just making decisions such as this based on mythology,old wives tales or supposition.We need the science and we need it now.Too manydecsions have already been made based on crap rather than science. My personal feelings on this are that until such time that there is science to back up or disprove the theories re the blue gene in this breed - why take the risk? There is already science to prove the existence of dilute colour alopecia so unless the breeder has ancestral information and is prepared NOT TO COMPROMISE in any way on health issues and they are VERY VERY confident that there will be no health problem in their litter because of this gene linkage why do it? Why do it anyway? Its not like the staffie gene pool isnt big enough to give you choices. Edited January 21, 2011 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 May I also mention here that blue Staffords are as "rare" as rock nowadays... plenty of unscrupulous people are "breeding" them because unsuspecting others will pay large sums for them. While I like the "look" of the blue Staffords, knowing what I know from info here, there's no way on the planet I'd deliberately seek to purchase one... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 In Danes even with Blue x Blue matings we don't seem to have the issues that Staffies do, it makes me wonder if it's more the dogs involved in the Blue breeding had poor immune systems and just kept passing it on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Apart from health and quality issues there is also the breed standard problem for both SBTs and Amstaffs. Both standards state the nose must be black and this is not genetically possible in a blue. So unless the KC standards are changed to reflect the genetic possibility for a blue nose, then no blues can comply with the breed standard. The really odd thing about the SBT standard is that the colour blue is specifically included as an allowed colour even though the nose colour cannot be correct. Therefore anyone breeding blues is not breeding to the standard, yet they are charging ridiculous prices compared to the dogs that do comply with the breed standard. These are not the the only breeds where the allowable colours have been put in by people who obviously have no idea about how colour genetics work. Most standards were written a long time ago and the colours have never been reviewed in light of new genetic research. Many of the breed standards make no sense with genetic colour possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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