casowner Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Sorry again Pewithers I am not referring to them as Psychotic at all, in fact I admire the breed very, very highly and I am dedicated to my chosen breed on the CASD however I think that people shouldn't compare them to a maremma. My boy was the most amazing gentle family dog and if you had read any of my posts about Jake before you would see how much he affected our lives. People will make decisions based on what they read so I think it is important to clarify that there are in fact major differences between livestock guardian breeds. I have a great affection towards Maremmas and I was on a waiting list for 2 years with a chosen breeder until finally giving up and finding Jake and it was the best decision I have ever made regarding introducing a flock guardian into our property I don't like seeing the CO classed as a killer or psychotic at all but with all breeds they have their own breed traits that must be respected and managed Edited January 22, 2011 by casowner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casowner Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 For some balance It has even been unfairly described as somewhat of a "loose cannon" by its detractors in recent years, although most such dogs are a result of either poor breeding, irresponsible ownership or bad upbringing. Still, with proper care, handling and training, the Kavkazskaya Ovcharka can be a well-behaved and obedient companion to those who understand this majestic Molosser. While this wonderful ancient breed makes an amenable family dog, it certainly isn't the same thing as a Newfoundland, a Bernese or a St.Bernard and potential owners should be aware of the breed's history and temperament before deciding to tackle the task of raising a Caucasian Shepherd Dog extracted from the Caucasian.org website Scaremongering about a breed only perpetuates unbalanced views but understanding the nature/traits of them helps educate about this amazing dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I don't like seeing the CO classed as a killer or psychotic at all but with all breeds they have their own breed traits that must be respected and managed For some balanceIt has even been unfairly described as somewhat of a "loose cannon" by its detractors in recent years, although most such dogs are a result of either poor breeding, irresponsible ownership or bad upbringing. Still, with proper care, handling and training, the Kavkazskaya Ovcharka can be a well-behaved and obedient companion to those who understand this majestic Molosser. While this wonderful ancient breed makes an amenable family dog, it certainly isn't the same thing as a Newfoundland, a Bernese or a St.Bernard and potential owners should be aware of the breed's history and temperament before deciding to tackle the task of raising a Caucasian Shepherd Dog extracted from the Caucasian.org website Scaremongering about a breed only perpetuates unbalanced views but understanding the nature/traits of them helps educate about this amazing dog Excellent points. People need to be open minded to the breed of their dog. It is people who are closed minded about Maremmas that have caused us the most problems. That said, I can't imagine why I would need a CO. Which makes me wonder what Africa needs protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monah Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Great posts CAS !! and from someone with experience. ;) Jake was superb. I really hope you have more wonderful experiences with this breed. He had a job to do and did it very well. This is what it is all about. xxxxxRIP dear boy. xxx I've never 'heard' anything re Mareemas? we have two lovely ones down the road I see every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I've never 'heard' anything re Mareemas? we have two lovely ones down the road I see every day. Don't start me talkin' cause ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartypaws Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Africa, if you are in to the giant Mountain dog breeds, perhaps consider a Bernese Mountain dog? They are divine Or a Leonberger! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 The type of dog you are describing is 'psychotic' and is a criticism that I feel is unfairly laid. Your choice of words. The thing is that a dog with extreme prey drive doesn't temper his responses to the 'level of threat'. He is the threat. With as much natural instinct as a hungry fox or wolf or bear preying for food, prey drive in some dogs can be completely ruthless. Crazy mad, viscous, psychotic. See, chase, grab, kill. Unfair labels, but true. They are animals and that is what some animals do, depending on their genes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curlybert Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 What I have learned about aussie dog culture within these few moths I have been here, those dogs are not suitable to your environment. You already have too much abandoned dogs (we don't in Finland, instead people are resquing dogs from Estonia, Spain etc.) Warning, my post is Hi Elina Do hope you're still tuned in, or will be soon! I'm very interested in your comment above, from page 3 of this thread. Can you explain why Finland does not have an abandoned dog problem please? As it is off-topic, it would be best if you could start a new thread. Many thanks! I have found this thread very interesting - I had not heard of the Caucasian Ovcharka before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elina Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 What I have learned about aussie dog culture within these few moths I have been here, those dogs are not suitable to your environment. You already have too much abandoned dogs (we don't in Finland, instead people are resquing dogs from Estonia, Spain etc.) Warning, my post is Hi Elina Do hope you're still tuned in, or will be soon! I'm very interested in your comment above, from page 3 of this thread. Can you explain why Finland does not have an abandoned dog problem please? As it is off-topic, it would be best if you could start a new thread. Many thanks! I have found this thread very interesting - I had not heard of the Caucasian Ovcharka before. Oh, sure I can try to explain. Just give me a little time ( it takes a while to write proper text in English) and I start a new thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldogz4eva Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 What a coincidence, I just have been reading thread about CO's in Finnish dog forum and then I come here and found this thread. We have CO's quite a lot in Finland. It is easy to import them from Russia since Russia is just across the border. People have been really excited about the breed the last ten years. Today we are in trouble. These dogs has killed lots of other dogs, they have bitten many people and caused so much sorrow just because wrong people buy them. These dogs should be in the middle of nowhere looking after a farm and animals. They should not be in the suburbans. Never!What I have learned about aussie dog culture within these few moths I have been here, those dogs are not suitable to your environment. You already have too much abandoned dogs (we don't in Finland, instead people are resquing dogs from Estonia, Spain etc.) that you don't want these dogs to mix everything even more. Most of the caucasian ovcharkas won't live long in Finland. They are too difficult to handle for most of the owners that they will be put down because their behaviour. This is very sad, because dogs haven't done anything else than what they are developed for, they are just in wrong environment. The main reason for that is the same world over.People fall in love with the look of a dog and the romantic stories without truly understanding what they are all about.They want something they arent prepared for and there are usually consequences becuase of it.Not the dogs fault the peoples fault.This is also why breeds get dumbed down becuase people want the look of a dog but dont really want or need the temp so they breed a pale imitation of the real thing.If you arent in the position to have one and arent prepared then dont get one.Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Sounds very much like a Maremma.There are many Guardian breeds, all with this same trait. The CO is unique in its size only. Saying that they were bred to "Kill" is not only misleading but irresponsible. They were bred to guard. Biology is nothing if it is not economical in its energy expenditure. Guardian breeds will only attack as a last resort, unless of course you have a rogue dog which is a completely separate issue. "Even though they are not usually suitable for urban living, they are often chosen as personal protection dogs because they will be as protective of their human family and their children as they would of their flock." There are many reasons Africa might not choose a CO but because it is a dog, albeit a very big dog, is the least of them. No, not psychotic at all and size is not really that big a deal (in fact most CO's from what I understand are not really that much bigger than a Pyrenean in height though in boning they may be a bit heavier - the extra large ones, like in any breed, are a bit of an anomaly). While they have all the standard LGD traits though, think of how intense and 'sharp' they are in your Maremma and ramp that up about ten fold. Sure, in the right hands they can be fantastic dogs and I know of a few people overseas that have them and adore them. They never underestimate them though. And would be horrofied to see them in inexperienced hands. It is in inexperienced hands that they become a loose cannon (and even in the hands of some who think they are experienced) simply because they are a whole lotta dog personality wise and need good leadership and management. If someone with experience with this type of dog wanted to import them here I would be applauding them. I would love to see them here. But there is no way I would recommend them to a novice. I am flat out recommending a Pyrenean to many people as they just dont suit the average dog owner - and they are one of the 'easier' LGD's to live with. Making the reasons very clear why a breed like this is not suitable for the average dog owner I think is important - particularly as most people tend to overestimate their abilities and romanticise what it would be like to live with a dog such as this. Edited January 22, 2011 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Espinay, what about a long coated Kangal? Just curious since reading about the breeds in this thread - are they double coated and how common/rare are they? I don't really have enough detailed knowledge of them to comment. A good website for anyone interested in the LGD breeds is www.lgd.org I also highly recommend LGD-L which is the livestock guardian dog email list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottnBullies Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Africa- perhaps you could have an OS holiday,and spend time with some of these dogs 'in person' ?Wanting to be the only person with 'something different' ..and having never owned one of these types of dog before ..Hmmm... Unless properly socialized and trained, the Caucasian Ovcharka may exhibit ferocious and unmanageable tendencies. It is very brave, alert, strong and hardy. It does not accept people it does not know and it has a powerful urge to defend. Everything and everyone who belongs to the family, including children, cats, other dogs, etc, will be regarded by this dog as part of "its" family and will be respected and protected. This dog should not be left alone with children, because if play becomes too rough, the Caucasian Ovtcharka my feel the need to protect your child, and may do it extensively. It has no time for strangers, but it will greet family friends warmly. It can be rather dominant towards other dogs it does not know. taken from HERE On the purely practical.... trying to keep a 90kg cool in Australia could be a bit tricky!! Those coats are meant for snow and blizzards :D Click ->AMAZING DOGS!! but definitely not something I would want ! Scary dog. Wow. Dont think anyone needs a dog like that now days....... That's a little narrow minded....try telling that to the people who's livelyhood depends on their stock, without these dogs to protect their sole source of Income who else Is going to help them They are a magnificent breed, and while I believe they are just "too much" dog for here In Australia, they were bred for a purpose, and they fulfill It well. Some people need to step outside the box (Australia), obviously the threats to livestock here, does not compare to overseas, and that's why they're needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiekaye Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Africa- perhaps you could have an OS holiday,and spend time with some of these dogs 'in person' ?Wanting to be the only person with 'something different' ..and having never owned one of these types of dog before ..Hmmm... Unless properly socialized and trained, the Caucasian Ovcharka may exhibit ferocious and unmanageable tendencies. It is very brave, alert, strong and hardy. It does not accept people it does not know and it has a powerful urge to defend. Everything and everyone who belongs to the family, including children, cats, other dogs, etc, will be regarded by this dog as part of "its" family and will be respected and protected. This dog should not be left alone with children, because if play becomes too rough, the Caucasian Ovtcharka my feel the need to protect your child, and may do it extensively. It has no time for strangers, but it will greet family friends warmly. It can be rather dominant towards other dogs it does not know. taken from HERE On the purely practical.... trying to keep a 90kg cool in Australia could be a bit tricky!! Those coats are meant for snow and blizzards :D Click ->AMAZING DOGS!! but definitely not something I would want ! Scary dog. Wow. Dont think anyone needs a dog like that now days....... That's a little narrow minded....try telling that to the people who's livelyhood depends on their stock, without these dogs to protect their sole source of Income who else Is going to help them They are a magnificent breed, and while I believe they are just "too much" dog for here In Australia, they were bred for a purpose, and they fulfill It well. Some people need to step outside the box (Australia), obviously the threats to livestock here, does not compare to overseas, and that's why they're needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Espinay, what about a long coated Kangal? Just curious since reading about the breeds in this thread - are they double coated and how common/rare are they? I don't really have enough detailed knowledge of them to comment. A good website for anyone interested in the LGD breeds is www.lgd.org I also highly recommend LGD-L which is the livestock guardian dog email list. Ta muchly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiekaye Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Africa- perhaps you could have an OS holiday,and spend time with some of these dogs 'in person' ?Wanting to be the only person with 'something different' ..and having never owned one of these types of dog before ..Hmmm... Unless properly socialized and trained, the Caucasian Ovcharka may exhibit ferocious and unmanageable tendencies. It is very brave, alert, strong and hardy. It does not accept people it does not know and it has a powerful urge to defend. Everything and everyone who belongs to the family, including children, cats, other dogs, etc, will be regarded by this dog as part of "its" family and will be respected and protected. This dog should not be left alone with children, because if play becomes too rough, the Caucasian Ovtcharka my feel the need to protect your child, and may do it extensively. It has no time for strangers, but it will greet family friends warmly. It can be rather dominant towards other dogs it does not know. taken from HERE On the purely practical.... trying to keep a 90kg cool in Australia could be a bit tricky!! Those coats are meant for snow and blizzards :D Click ->AMAZING DOGS!! but definitely not something I would want ! Scary dog. Wow. Dont think anyone needs a dog like that now days....... That's a little narrow minded....try telling that to the people who's livelyhood depends on their stock, without these dogs to protect their sole source of Income who else Is going to help them They are a magnificent breed, and while I believe they are just "too much" dog for here In Australia, they were bred for a purpose, and they fulfill It well. Some people need to step outside the box (Australia), obviously the threats to livestock here, does not compare to overseas, and that's why they're needed I am sure they have their place where they are needed and they look like a magnificant animal but do we really need them here? Its all very well saying that in the right hands they can be managed, but how often do dogs get into the wrong hands and make it harder for all dog owners. It would worry me sick owning a dog with such potential to do harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottnBullies Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Hence my comment that I personally think they're "Too Much" dog for our culture here, so no I don't think they're needed In Oz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 A good website for anyone interested in the LGD breeds is www.lgd.org I also highly recommend LGD-L which is the livestock guardian dog email list. Wow the Akbash is a pretty impressive looking pooch (when he's not looking like a polar bear). I dont think I'd want to nick any of his flock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Question for the Anatolian/Kangal breeders - how/why did the two names come about and if it's the same breed (if it is), why are they recognised individually by ANKC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I have to say that I don't see the less common/bred for function only LGDs are suitable "pets" for our country. They look to me to need a job, an environment that suits the function they were bred for AND an owner who both understands them and manages them accordingly. Sticking one in your average suburban block hits me as profoundly stressful for the dog and a potential accident waiting to happen. As I said earlier in the thread, you can admire big cats all you like but your average person shouldn't be able to own one. Leave these magnificant animals to those who have both the situation and the understanding they need. If you want that much "protection" hire a bodyguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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