Ankc Obedience Rules

[Echo]

With regard to the Obedience Rules, I have often wondered why the ANKC specify that:

All verbal commands must be in the English language unless approved otherwise by the Judge.

I know people who have requested of the judge that they be allowed to use another language while trialing their dog.

In most cases, the judge has refused permission.

I can see no valid reason why this should be the case.

After looking through the ANKC Rules for all other disciplines, Obedience is the only one which specifically calls for English to be used.

Why should it be acceptable, under the rules, for any language to be used at any other trial, other than Obedience?

Surely, in this day and age, where we have a very multi-cultural society, this would be a form of discrimination against people whose fluent language is not English?

There are many people who do not use English as their first language when at home. It would be common sense for such people to train their dogs in their chosen language.

I can't see what possible difference it makes, which language is used when trialing, as long as the commands given are restricted to single words, as per the rules. Especially when this rule only applies to Obedience, and not any other discipline.

Julie

Edited January 20, 2011 by Echo

[Seita]

Probably because we're an english speaking nation. I use a different language and have not yet encountered a judge who has refused to let me use it.

[Fourjays]

Aren't there certain exercises where the rule book states that 'only xxx command' may be used?

Therefore, the judge needs to understand the word that is being said by the handler and obviously if it is not in English, then the judge has no way of knowing.

I will have to go find my rule book, but I am sure there are some exercises in the higher levels, where this is the case.

[RallyValley]

I voted no. I don't have a problem with people using commands in other languages for thier dogs but if the judge does not know the languge how are they to know if it is two words or one long word, like they could discern for English.

For example, I was considering having my commands in Greek and the word "lets walk" was going to be my heel word, in Greek it is one word, phonetically "perpatoume" I would hate for a judge who did not know the language decide that was too long a word and they couldn't decide if it was one word or two and disqualify me.

[dasha]

I replied No that the rules shouldn't be amended and that covers a range of reasons.

1.We are an english speaking nation

2. Like someone said, the judge needs to know what the commands are so that they can hear if commands are repeated or altered or encouragement are used.

3. The rules are written to be a guide for everyone participation in the comp to be on a level playing field. Training for any sport means being aware of the rules. If you want to compete, read the rules and train accordingly.

These are just some of the things I can think of and are my opnion.

[RubyStar]

the judge does not know the languge how are they to know if it is two words or one long word, like they could discern for English.

This is what sprung to mind when I read the question for the poll. How is the judge to know if you used one word or two? The rules state the command must be one word only (and one syllable I believe?)

[dandybrush]

i voted no, we are in Australia, speak the language its that simple, plus like others are saying, how will the judge know what you are telling your dog

[Seita]

I was very careful in the selection of my commands to ensure that they were all one syllable so there would be no confusion about whether I was saying one command or not. I have had a few judges ask me what my commands for different things are and so far not a single one has refused to let me use them. I do however use German commands which alot of people are fairly familar with so many judges already know what my commands mean. I don't have any issues with the rules being left the way they are but I would hate for them to be changed to completely refuse any language other than English.

[Agility Dogs]

'We are an English speaking nation'.

Hmmmm...........Last time I checked we could speak any language we liked. I think that is a bit narrow minded to say that - MANY people speak a language other than English and use English to get by with their day to day interactions. As long as another language isn't used to pointedly exclude others what is the harm. (Whispering annoys me as well.)

If the rules are that you can only use one word/syllable then surely it doesn't matter whether the word is in english, polish, german or swahili, if the dog does the exercise that the judge is asking for at the bidding of the handler what does it matter?

I wouldn't have a problem with the rule being changed.

FTR - I am 'Australian' (whatever that is) and only speak English.

[pipsqueak]

the judge does not know the languge how are they to know if it is two words or one long word, like they could discern for English.

This is what sprung to mind when I read the question for the poll. How is the judge to know if you used one word or two? The rules state the command must be one word only (and one syllable I believe?)

ditto.

I don't think the rules should be changed, however, I also believe that people should be allowed to use commands in another language IF they provide the judge with a written list of commands they intend on using. Otherwise it could possibly become "unfair" to people who use English when someone uses a 2 word command in another language and it is not known.

[ness]

Dasha wrote: 2. Like someone said, the judge needs to know what the commands are so that they can hear if commands are repeated or altered or encouragement are used.

Why does the judge need to know what your saying. There is no difference in determing if a command is repeated regardless of the language. Either your saying something or your silent. No issue with altering commands there is nothing that specifies you must use the same word the entire time - i.e. heelwork you don't have to use the same heel command everytime you take off from heel for example. I have 2 different recalls for my DOR in open and have had no issue with that.

[BMAK]

I wouldn't expect any judge to have to go and learn another language because a few people wanted to use those commands if you can speak english why not use the english language in the ring it's not like your dog will care haha???

In your own home and at training feel free but i don't see the need in the ring.

For all a judge knows people could right it down explaining on a piece of paper and lie about it so easily.

i voted no too.

[Cosmolo]

I completely agree with agility dog. Why on earth does it matter if the commands are english or otherwise. Provide the list of commands to the judge and if a command is repeated, penalties apply same as everyone else.

I would go as far as to say its discriminatory- many people have english as a second language and in a sport where timing of commands etc is important, a first language may come more naturally to them and i don't understand how it could be in any way unfair to other competitors.

[poodlefan]

I voted no.

We're talking about a handful of cue words here - not asking everyone to be fluent in English. Schutzhund folk often train their dogs using German cue words. You could train your dog to cue off names of fruit if you wanted to - we're not talking all that many words.

This isn't an issue about multi-culturalism IMO but ensuring that everyone understands both what's required by the judge and what's being said to the dog. If English manages to function as the international language of aviation, I can't see why it can't be used as the agreed language for ANKC obedience.

If a dog is verbally cued to drop in another language and stands instead - how does an English speaking judge score that?

Edited January 21, 2011 by poodlefan

[ness]

Sorry poodlefan - yes you could train your dog to cue off names of fruit so why should the fact you might give a command in another language be any different. So long as the word is short and not drawn out. I remember some discussion on this at some point and it was more to do with the length of some words in other languages.

The only time a specific word has been stipulated is for the utility food refusal exercise in which case it is stipulated in the rules that the handler must use the word "STAY".

Edited January 21, 2011 by ness

[wuffles]

Why does the judge need to know what your saying. There is no difference in determing if a command is repeated regardless of the language. Either your saying something or your silent. No issue with altering commands there is nothing that specifies you must use the same word the entire time - i.e. heelwork you don't have to use the same heel command everytime you take off from heel for example. I have 2 different recalls for my DOR in open and have had no issue with that.

I agree, I couldn't care less what commands people use as long as they aren't repeated and am not really sure why anyone else would either. If I say heel and someone else says walk, it makes no difference. If I say heel and someone says tur, it makes no difference.

I'm a newbie, but why would using a two word command give someone an advantage?

I will worry about what my dog and I are doing in the ring, not what other people are doing

Edited January 21, 2011 by wuffles

[huski]

I don't see what the big deal is? Who cares what words people use as long as they aren't offensive (I.e. Swear words) and are still one syllable.

Plenty of people use different words for each command even within English, I've heard a range of words used for the recall command, drop/down etc. Why would a judge need to learn another language if the triallers tells them what words they are going to use?

I plan to have two different sets of command words for my next dog and some of our 'working' command words will be German which is pretty common in dog training anyway. I honestly fail to see what the big deal is.

Edited January 21, 2011 by huski

[poodlefan]

I can see it being a big deal if you miscue the dog because you misunderstood what the judge said or the dog did something other than you asked for.

As I said, if the dog performs one behaviour when you cued another or you cued one behaviour when the judge asked for another, scoring would be a challenge.

[Cosmolo]

I am confused- how would it be a challenge? If the judge requests you down your dog and the dog doesn't down, isn't that easy? Regardless of what the cue was?

What if someone has english words that were all fruit names- the judge still wouldn't know what the cues meant but it wouldn't matter.

[huski]

I dont see how? It is obvious when a dog has missed or mistaken a cue by performing another one. If the judge is aware of what command words they will be using I can't how it would be an issue.

ETA: what Cos said.

Also, I don't think the rules should change as I don't see a problem with it being at the judges' discretion. I've never seen a judge who has refused for a person to use non-English command words when they've requested it anyway.

Edited January 21, 2011 by huski