Rescue Dog Aggression Problems With Dogs

[poodlefan]

Cosmolo:

The issue with assessment is that you can take the same dog, place them in 10 different homes and get 10 different sets of behaviour.

Sadly, that seems to have been interpreted by some as a reason to distance the rescue from dogs that had issues at the get go. Blaming the adoptive home is a wonderful method of absolving yourself from responsiblity for rehoming a problem dog.

[Vickie]

The issue with assessment is that you can take the same dog, place them in 10 different homes and get 10 different sets of behaviour. Thats why assessment is the first step- training AND matching dogs and owners is just as important. There are foundation elements of a dogs behaviour that are compatible with some people and not with others and i think these are often missed.

totally agree!

When we brought Pep home, she did a bit of resource guarding (people & food) snapping. This was not evident in the pound at all.

I have no doubt that since she was a bit timid & had some SA that some people would have felt sorry for her, excused this behaviour & let it develop into something more serious.

With a zero tolerance policy, it took about 2 days to disappear here, with no recurrence.

[dee lee]

Cosmolo, I didn't mean to imply that no rescues will take the training approach, more that there are so many organizations that I can't imagine it becoming standard practice.

I do know that the organization I adopted my previous dog from has since committed to improved assessment and training. I would hope that this means that dogs such as mine will be more appropriately assessed and adopted out.

I noticed problems immediately with my dog- I find it hard to believe that the fosterer could not. We stressed the need for a calmer dog because we had small children and were told this young dog was very gentle & had previously been with a family.

A "sweet quiet baby" does not metamorphise into a hyper unsocialised dog overnight. Yet I was "reassurred" that she was fine & I needed to improve my leadership.

Honestly, why not recognize that a mismatch was made and encourage rehoming? Always it's the adopter that is made out to feel guilty and in the wrong.

People who adopt rescues do so because they want to help the dogs.

It does not help the dog to place it in an unsuitable home- who is to blame ultimately for the difficulties that follow?

[Cosmolo]

Chran- an assessment should be made independently of any adopter. When i assess dogs and they have an issue i do not score them any differently depending on home availability. Once the assessment is complete, we then look at what types of adopters would be suitable.

The other issue is that of those adopters willing to take on a problem dog- many are not actually capable, despite thinking that they actually are. I don't mean to be harsh but its true.

Deelee, industry 'best practice' can do funny things. The more rescue orgs we get assessing and training, the more that want to- its a positive cycle. There will always be a few who don't but (in my little dream land..) these orgs should become few and far between.

It is a fine line too- no one should make an adopter feel guilty when a matching error has been made. But i have seen hundreds of situations where the dogs behaviour is a direct result of how they are being dealt with in the new home as well. We need to have skilled people who can determine whats going on so that adopters are not made to feel guilty, bad matches are recognised BUT we also look at factors influencing the dogs behaviour in the adoptive home. Are some of those factors normal and to be found in any home? Or are some more extensive in this particular home and therefore excacerbate the dogs issues. What would the next home need to have to ensure the problem does not repeat itself in the next home?

[chran]

When i assess dogs and they have an issue i do not score them any differently depending on home availability.

Fair enough. From my experience I can say this didn't happen to us. Don't get me wrong, we've been dealing with his issues and now down to the last one (DA) which sometimes still happens (getting less & less incident though).

The other issue is that of those adopters willing to take on a problem dog- many are not actually capable, despite thinking that they actually are. I don't mean to be harsh but its true.

I'd trust your judgement since you're actually in the industry Just like me being "harsh" to my clients that think they can fix their computer issues themselves (IT industry).

[sas]

MEH - the foster carer took him to the dog park within his quarantine period - two issues here:

1. potentially spreading parvo and other viruses

2. putting other people's dogs are at risk of being attacked/injured

Dog is advertised sounding like a wonderful and well trained animal which is not the case.

I agree, not a good thing to do at all.

[sas]

hi all, after much discussion we have decided not to keep him. though we are committed to training any dog we have, keeping him will mean a huge amount of ongoing stress and concern. We feel though his DA issues may be able to be managed by someone very experienced, they are far too out of control now for us to walk him or take him out to exercise safely, particularly myself, and that is not good for him or us, as we are active and enjoy the outdoors all the time.

So we hope he will go to a home that will provide him with the training & environment he deserves. We dont feel his description matched his personality & the DA issue is a major one that will affect us everytime we take him out of the house. A walk we went on this week became a pretty frightening experience for us (and the other dog owners) & that was on the lead the whole time!

thanks again for your responses

Sorry you had to go through this, I respect your decision.

[Myjoe]

Hello everyone

Just read through this thread as I got a JRT x a few weeks ago from shelter with similar problems (I posted and got some great replies re behaviourist and we've had our first visit from Danielle). But I must confess I am upset, frustrated and a bit disappointed the shelter never mentioned any of his issues at all. I felt the last few days so upset that I don't appear to be coping; had I known about his agression (particularly, I think the others issues can be fixed, but everything together overwhelms me), I would not have taken him for fear of problems with my other dog (fortunately there has only been a few issues there).

Just wanted to add my 2c in re being upfront about rehoming dogs.

We'll continue working with him and see how he goes; I guess it's early days yet!

Regards

[Cosmolo]

Hi there Myjoe- i suggest you write a letter to the shelter manager expressing your disappointment and asking them to examine their current behavioural assessment strategies. While some problem behaviour would not be picked up even with a good assessment, there are many situations where inadequate testing is being done and i feel one of the ways to change this is to create some pressure on the rehoming orgs from the very people who adopt their dogs.

[Myjoe]

Thanks

I do intend to do that; I did send them a quick email telling them I had to get help with his aggression problems. He was in foster care for about 4 months with no apparent problems and, indeed, their web page says he gets on well with other dogs!!

[sas]

Thanks

I do intend to do that; I did send them a quick email telling them I had to get help with his aggression problems. He was in foster care for about 4 months with no apparent problems and, indeed, their web page says he gets on well with other dogs!!

The dog may very well had got on with dogs in the foster home, the dog may not have been taken out in public or had the opportunity to see other dogs outside the home.

Sadly some foster carers have too many dogs to give individual attention including taking the dogs for walks.

One person's interpretation of 'getting on well' may include a few scraps from time to time.

I've had a foster that was submissive and perfectly dog social in my home, take him outside of the home and he was a different dog.

Edited March 22, 2011 by MEH

[Myjoe]

Thanks for your reply. Apparently he didn't get on well with the other dog in foster care home and was apparently taken to dog parks and the dog beach with no problems off lead. Anyway, we are, hopefully, getting there with him and will do all to make him comfortable and at home here. Such an upheaval, I know I wouldn't cope :-)

[skip]

Hi Myjoe

Thought I would let you know that it can be a bit OVERwhelming at first. I got a rescue dog with separation anxiety (which I was warned about) but I didn't really understand what it meant.

I was told I needed another dog for this rescue dog so I found another younger dog who had some other issues as she spent her first 8 months in a cage with the rest of the litter.

OMG I was so out of my depth. I found one talk with a behaviourist, time and training and everything got better gradually.

Now I am so happy with the dogs and they are so suited to my life. Can't beleive now that I ever found them hard work!

Hope it works out as well for you.

[sas]

Thanks for your reply. Apparently he didn't get on well with the other dog in foster care home and was apparently taken to dog parks and the dog beach with no problems off lead. Anyway, we are, hopefully, getting there with him and will do all to make him comfortable and at home here. Such an upheaval, I know I wouldn't cope :-)

I find that hard to swallow given the problems you have had from day 1.

[Myjoe]

Me too, meh! Nothing back from the shelter in reply to my letters, so I shall direct my energies into training him.

Skip, I would be out of my mind if I had that to cope with, but pleased to hear all ended well; I know it will in our case too with the help of our behaviourist. Sometimes it looks like one step forward and three back, but I am learning from my mistakes!!

[Erny]

Breezy, I think you'd be far better off with a decent leather lead than a chain one. Chain is difficult to control in terms of shortening and lengthening the lead and is heavy - making it difficult to signal to the dog when the lead is loose.

If you want to persist with a halti I highly recommend you get some professional lessons in how to use it - a dog pulling hard on one (or God forbid lunging) can potentially do itself some spinal damage. Obedience training sounds like a very good idea for this dog.

I haven't gotten to the rest of the posts here yet, but totally agree with PF on thse points.

Just because the lead is chain does NOT mean it is strong. I have witnessed chain leads snap clean through their links - resulting in a loose dog and at least one handler who was incredibly lucky to keep his eye because of the lead recoil. As PF also says - a chain lead is not comfortable to hold when wanting or needing to shorten or lengthen by looping in your hand. This makes it dangerous again, because of potential damage to your hand and the fact that you won't hold it as well if your hand is hurting.

Also, remember that the only thing holding the head collar on is a piece of plastic. You should make sure that you incorporate a "Fail Safe" device, if you haven't already. You can purchase these or you can rig a 'make-shift' one by using an oversized quality check chain. You attach both the chain and the head-collar to the lead. The chain should be long enough to NOT come into operation when applying the head-collar, but it will at least be there if the head-collar should give.

I also agree with PF that head collars need special tuition in their use. You have a lot of leverage in your hands and the stress point is where your dog's head attaches to the first vertebrae in the spine. A lunging dog can easily do damage, no matter how well versed in handling a handler is. Even easier if a person does not know and is not experienced in their use. This is not to say don't use one, but be aware of the dangers of their use.

ETA: Have now read through all posts and note the OP's decision to return the dog. Good decision, by the sounds of it. I hope he finds his way to a suitable home. He seems a nice dog in all other aspects.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Erny

[JoeK]

Is different having dog from a puppy if he become aggressive on other dogs where emotional bonding is deeper on the pup and is good to try and fix his problem, but the rescue dog my opinion is life too short for the coping of aggressive dogs in the family pet and is best to get another one who is nice friendly dog with the stable nerve.

There is plenty of the nice rescue dog and is shame that some a have the problems, but we can't always use the heart for thinking sometimes thinking with the head is best, yes? I don't think the rescue company should be putting out aggressive dogs to the family home, is too hard and not fair on the people if consideration is the need perhaps to get rid of the dog for the aggression after loving the dog for other reasons. Is best to take a nice rescue dog with the future for the family, not the problem dog for the rescue is no good, is sad, but sometimes he better off putting to sleep.

Joe