koalathebear Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Yes Kaos is my dog's call name. His registered name is Avenpart Ontario (Avenpart ump x Avenpart Lesky). You won't see him on your dog's pedigree as he is desexed and never sired a litter Nah, I was just looking up names of 'Kelpies I know' Presumably somewhere up the chain they must be related though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Kelpies Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Hi KTB. ‘S/Bred’ before the dog's name indicates that the breeder does not hold membership or a prefix recorded with the WKC. It stands for Station bred but can mean that the breeder has kept track of the dogs' pedigree and they may be very well bred. Tony Parsons' Karrawarra dogs are S/bred but are considered very well bred and their bloodlines are sought after by people wanting paddock dogs with good casts. They're not so popular with people wanting stronger yard dogs. I think Tony Parsons had a falling out with the WKC some time ago and left (you'll probably find out as you keep reading the book.) I finally got my copy of the book. I was about the only Kelpie person I knew who didn't have a copy and was beginning to feel left out. I haven't got as far into it as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Hi KTB. ‘S/Bred’ before the dog's name indicates that the breeder does not hold membership or a prefix recorded with the WKC. It stands for Station bred but can mean that the breeder has kept track of the dogs' pedigree and they may be very well bred. Tony Parsons' Karrawarra dogs are S/bred but are considered very well bred and their bloodlines are sought after by people wanting paddock dogs with good casts. They're not so popular with people wanting stronger yard dogs. I think Tony Parsons had a falling out with the WKC some time ago and left (you'll probably find out as you keep reading the book.) I finally got my copy of the book. I was about the only Kelpie person I knew who didn't have a copy and was beginning to feel left out. I haven't got as far into it as you. Thanks for that! I think I've found your Kelpie gang I've finished the Tony Parsons book and as you say, he did seem to feel a little disenchanted with the WKC after a while. I was also quite interested at the breeders he was recommending. Because Hoover has so much Riana in him, I looked up the Kelpie stud. There was this bit: Dogs that do not head cleanly and properly are never retained or bred from in the Riana Kelpie Stud. We do not keep or distribute our culls, preferring to keep and only sell the best of our Kelpies. I know it improved the breed, but poor culled dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) Resurrecting this again because the LGD crossbreed discussion in another thread made me think of this again. In "The Kelpie, Parsons goes back to 1920 and discusses Bantry Girl, arguably the most famous Kelpie x border collie trial bitch in Australian history. She was a yellow and white and although it was said that she was 7/8 Kelpie in breeding, her pedigree contained 4 crosses of Collie so she could hardly have been more Kelpie than Collie. Apparently "she worked more like a Kelpie than a Collie... " though and she was an important dog in the development of Australian Border Collies. So the 'purebred' Kelpie cocktail of today has a lot of Border Collie in it and is speculated to have some dingo in there somewhere. Accordingly, does this change the general 'rule' that crossbreeds are inherently unpredictable? The Working Kelpie Council told me that the Kelpie/Border Collie cross was a very common and very successful mix for working dogs which suggests to me that there might be some crosses that don't result in wildly unpredictable results? I know this is a purebred discussion forum so ultimately I do have a 'purebred' question in my mind about the above. For Kelpie/Border Collie crosses - if a farmer keeps breeding that dog with Kelpies, will it be possible to produce a purebred Kelpie again at some point given the closeness of the breeds? No I'm not trying to breed Elbie - he got the snip a long time ago. Just curious. I am guessing it probably happens in the working lines given the 'station bred' entries that show up in the WKC stud books. Perhaps this is why ANKC Australian Kelpie breeders aren't permitted to use working lines in their breeding programmes? Edited August 5, 2011 by koalathebear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I'm finding the book a fascinating read! Great to read about great past and present studs, including stuff I didn't know about Kaos's breeder and about another breeder I am interested in. And lots of colour photos Sorry, can't help with your question though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 I'm finding the book a fascinating read! Great to read about great past and present studs, including stuff I didn't know about Kaos's breeder and about another breeder I am interested in. And lots of colour photos Sorry, can't help with your question though Heh You're not after a Karrawarra Kelpie are you? I was looking at the WKC breeders notes page the other day (which I do from time time and saw that the name Karrawarra is still very much out there. Although Karrawarra Boozer is such an inelegant although adorable name ... You are right - the book is really interesting. He's not shy about his opinions, is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 He is certaily not shy The history is very interesting. I am looking at Barru Kelpies - which actually have a lot of Karrawarra dogs (like Boozer :D ). The guy is very personable and easy to talk to and helpful in finding what I am after, and the dogs look and sound good from what I can see on their site and Tony Parsons has a good opinion of them. Need to work up the courage to go out there (6 hrs away ) as I have not met any dogs of his breeding. OH says just go back to Kaos's breeder - certainly would be easier and if I don't see anything I like more than what I have, certainly what I will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) I am looking at Barru Kelpies - which actually have a lot of Karrawarra dogs (like Boozer :D ). The guy is very personable and easy to talk to and helpful in finding what I am after, and the dogs look and sound good from what I can see on their site and Tony Parsons has a good opinion of them. Need to work up the courage to go out there (6 hrs away ) as I have not met any dogs of his breeding.OH says just go back to Kaos's breeder - certainly would be easier and if I don't see anything I like more than what I have, certainly what I will do. I think it would be lovely to have a Karrawarra Kelpie - it would be like having your own piece of Kelpie history in your family Hoover's got a bit of Karana and a lot of Riana in his background. I asked WKC for a 6 generations bloodlines search to see if he had any of the dogs that Parsons mentioned in his book in his background Alas no - but definitely some funny names. Kelpies get such funny names like Yakka and Cobber and Tess and Bess have to be the most common name for Kelpie bitches ever. I'm glad Barru is nice - I actually found a lot of the working breeders surprisingly ok about the thought of their dogs going into a non-working home. Could you tell how conflicted Parsons was about Kelpies in agility? On the one hand, he is Proud on the other hand he isn't quite sure he approves "On the face of it, there is nothing untoward in using Kelpies, even working-strain Kelpies for agility, or any other dog sport for that matter, except that it is not the purpose for which the breed was intended." Edited August 5, 2011 by koalathebear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 He is conflicted about agility, more about people breeding their agility dogs without knowing if they are good on sheep rather than people partaking in the activity, which is a valid point imo and does happen. I reckon we can give the Border Collies a run for their money in agility :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogfan Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Why is the book so expensive/special? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 My guess is 1) hardcover and 2) lots of high quality colour photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 It's expensive but really worth it - it's such an interesting read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I drooled over cmkelpie's copy a few months ago... It certainly is a really nice book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirawee Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 My guess is 1) hardcover and 2) lots of high quality colour photos And 3) has lots and lots and lots of pages! I bought a copy. Put it away safe to look at when I got a chance. Then promptly forgot about it! Thanks for reminding me guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirawee Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 So the 'purebred' Kelpie cocktail of today has a lot of Border Collie in it and is speculated to have some dingo in there somewhere. Accordingly, does this change the general 'rule' that crossbreeds are inherently unpredictable? The Working Kelpie Council told me that the Kelpie/Border Collie cross was a very common and very successful mix for working dogs which suggests to me that there might be some crosses that don't result in wildly unpredictable results? Crossbreeding of Kelpies and Border Collies is usually done when both dogs are proven working dogs. They are a similar type although there are differences between them obviously. But there are no major differences in structure or function that should cause a problem crossbreeding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Crossbreeding of Kelpies and Border Collies is usually done when both dogs are proven working dogs. They are a similar type although there are differences between them obviously. But there are no major differences in structure or function that should cause a problem crossbreeding Thanks for that. Interesting stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab_Rat Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Crossbreeding of Kelpies and Border Collies is usually done when both dogs are proven working dogs. They are a similar type although there are differences between them obviously. But there are no major differences in structure or function that should cause a problem crossbreeding Thanks for that. Interesting stuff! Youll see quite a number of BC x Kelpies at WA sheepdog trials! Mirawee, didnt know you had got yourself a copy!! Mine sits on the coffee table so everytime I walk past I see that beautiful Merlin on the front cover it certainly has got a few months worth of reading in it thats for sure!! I wish I knew a little more about our little girls parentage, so I could see more of her ancestors Oh well, in the end its of no consequence really as I couldnt love her any more!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilaryo Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 We have a Rural Bookshop out of our offices in Sydney (Nth Richmond). They currently have the book selling for $140.00 including P&H. https://www.ruralbookshop.com.au/book_detail.asp?product_id=3442&producttype_id=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 My partner and I were out buying a engagment ring. While we were waiting for ring to be sized we went into a bookshop. Ron was telling me about the book, it wasnt on display so we asked and they had it out the back. He got it for me. Dont tell him but I was more excited about the book Its a great book. I read most of it on our recent holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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