Dog Chewing Own Tail

[flux]

I'm not a behaviourist, or vet, or breeder - I'm just average joe with two dogs, but I have an idea but possibly not the knowledge to execute it. Maybe someone with more experience can fill in my gaps.

So why not treat the tail as another dog. Forgetting or ignoring what the dog thinks of it's tail, can we just respond to how it is reacting to it?

If someone posted, "I have a young dog who resource guards with our other dog" what would the solution be? Can you treat the tail like another dog?

I don't know how you would address resource guarding between two dogs so the following is a hypothetical:

If the answer was to make sure the pup still ate the bone but was separate from the other dog, perhaps in a crate where it could see her but still eat the bone (just want to state again I've got no idea if this is indeed how you work with resource guarding - someone with knowledge needs to fill these gaps in). Then, could you separate the tail in a similar way? Maybe have the pup in a narrow run way where it can't turn around to bite it's tail but can see it while it eats?

What do some more experienced people think to this general idea of treating the tail like another dog, how would you go about working on the problem in general?

Best of luck!

Faye

[Bully]

It is not a habit but ocd. Google bull terrier neurological disorder and you will find info. There is also a bull terrier yahoo group dedicated to this problem. It occurs in many other breeds also like shepards. Amputation won't do a thing

Cheers

Julie

As Julie says it's a neurological diisorder. Check out this web page http://www.btneuro.org/

[nobul]

Thanks Julie , it is just exactly what the OP has written that has me worried, one of the BIGGEST problems owners face with things like OCD is the misadvice they are given and the Unproffesional (proffessional ) help they get , which only leads to an even greater disaster.

A "spinner" in the sense of the word doesnt neccessarily mean it spiinning like crazy , it can be in a mild form just a few turns to an extreme for , spinning like crazy and not stopping for anything but powerful sedatives. I have seen/heard of dogs biting their own tails off, feet cut and bleeding, legs chewed to the bone. this in many differetn breeds not just bullys

Please take a look at the site and join the yahoo group and have a read , see if the sypmtoms are the same

[rajacadoo]

Hi thank you very much for all your replies. I have an appointment with the vet this afternoon. I have heard that this is quite common in ACD, though I'm not really sure how much ACD she has in her, I'm just going by what the lady who we got her off told us. Her mum was a white staffy x and apparently her father was an ACD, I only saw the mother. Anyway here are a couple of (oldish) pics:

Has anyone had their dog on these "mind" drugs and how well did they work for you? Does the dog have to stay on them forever? Other than the fact I'd probably have to sell a kidney to pay for it, I'm also worried about the side effects. Not sure which particular drug the vet was recommending we put her on but reading a little bit on drugs that are commmonly prescribed for this it is quite scary. Will ask the vet for more info this afternoon.

By reading the reply from rajacadoo sounds like amputation can be successful. How long did it take to heal? Did your friend try these "mind" drugs first? I guess the vet probably wouldn't do this until after we try drugs. Will see what they say.

How much exercise and training does this dog get daily?

It does sound like an obsessive/compulsive behaviour. This can be managed with drugs but I was wondering if lack of stimulation might be playing a part.

An Elizabethan collar should be long enough that it goes well past the dog's muzzle. Eating and drinking in one shouldn't be possible let alone chewing on a tail. They aren't meant to be left on when the dog is unsupervised by the way.

I walk her as often as I can, usually around 40 minutes most days, the the shops and back or just around the streets. but I guess maybe she needs more than that? Once school starts back up she will walk with me to take my daughter to school which is about 40 minutes there and back, twice a day. We take her out to the river a couple of times a week so she can run around. We have a reasonably large yard where she runs around with the kids most of the day. She has a soccer ball that she loves to chase so most evenings we go out and kick it around the yard to each other while she is "piggy in the middle" she seems to love that.

She has to live outside (landlord's rules) but we spend a lot of time outside on the verandah, which is where she mostly lives/sleeps. I am a stay at home mum, so she's never home alone for long.

As for the ecollar, the one we originally had was given to us by the vet, she said it was the correct size for her. But we found she could reach the tip of her tail if she tried hard enough so I went back and asked for the next size up. It does go a few cm past her nose but a couple of times I have caught her with it pushed flat against the ground, holding her tail down and she can just reach the end. She has a bucket to drink out of and can easily do so with the colar on. She can eat out of her bowl with it on too but I take the collar off to feed her. I've never been told they shouldn't have them on while unsupervised? but when she's unsupervised is the time she really needs it on :-\

Anyway I will see what the vet says this afternoon. Thanks again for all your replies

Sorry melz85, I havent been back into this thread till now...

On my boy the healing was pretty quick if I remember correctly, no issues with it at all. He still did the spinning, but thankfully, he never bit at any other parts of the body.

The second dog I mentioned, did not heal as well, because he tended to get the bandages off all the time, managing to bump it on anything at all, and it took a long while to heal properly... At this stage he is ok though. Yes she did try the mind drugs on him, prior to having the tail amputated, with absolutely no effect at all. The meds 'zonked' him a bit, but still he would spin staggering around, sometimes getting his tail, othertimes missing it altogether... Cut a promising show career completely...

Good luck I hope things improve. Some very good advice Im taking in for my boy too...

[Aidan3]

Just a note for the OP - it's good to read about other people's experiences with meds but please make sure you keep them in perspective. Other people's experiences are other people's experiences, and while it's good to know about them, you might have a different experience.

First attempt at meds for a dog with the behaviours your dog has shown would normally not be something that "zonked" your dog. Only a vet can prescribe, and preferably a veterinary behaviourist, but I would guess they would use a drug designed to treat what animal behaviourists call a "stereotypie". Some dogs are a little zonked by these meds, but very few. They may be more relaxed, but quite willing and capable of running around and getting into other sorts of mischief.

It's a shame the second vet you saw wasn't more thorough, but honestly I would say this vet was probably not competently able to deal with this sort of issue. I would encourage you to seek the opinion of a veterinary behaviourist. It usually saves money to get good advice right from the start, even if it costs more up-front. Even with meds, you are still going to need help with behaviour modification.

[rajacadoo]

Aiden2.. Im only reporting what I had been told about this dog and the meds he was prescribed, by the owner... The dog had the edge taken off him, but he was still able to spin, catch and/or chase his tail. I dont know the Vets involved in this dogs case, whether just a 'GP-type' Vet, or a Vet Behaviorist, (but suspect that here in Hobart, there arent many of them ). I also have no idea if a behavior modification programme was set up for this boy either... And if it was, dont know if it was followed :D ...

And yes it is good to read other peoples experiences with what happened, (as the OP wanted), but this particular dog needs to be assessed and treated, if necessary, on its own merits...

[Aidan3]

I dont know the Vets involved in this dogs case, whether just a 'GP-type' Vet, or a Vet Behaviorist, (but suspect that here in Hobart, there arent many of them ).

There is one, Dr Katrina Ward, but she is only quite recently qualified as a veterinary behaviourist so there is every chance the dog in question didn't see her. To be honest, there is every chance that he was given an inappropriate medication. It happens, unfortunately.

P.S sorry if my post seemed directed at you. It wasn't, the experience you reported was completely valid, I just know the OP had some concerns about the medication.

[rajacadoo]

I would just about bet my house on the fact this dog didnt see Dr Ward, (Oooops I did forget about her :D )....

Yep completely agree this dog could have been wrongly prescribed. Im sure 'zonking' the dog wasnt the intended treatment for this boy.............. Then again maybe it was ...

Tis all ok ...