Dog Snapped At Baby, Help

[Guest]

Cesar Millan had some episodes on children/babies and dogs. If you like Cesar and his way with dogs, you might like to check his contributions on this topic. Found 2 on web:

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Good luck, hope it works out!

G.

G'day all,

Last night whilst I was at work my dog growled/snapped at my baby (no damage done), now I've been told by my other half that she was standing right next to them and that our 15 month old was not touching, antagonising, she didn't have food, the dog didn't have food either and it just happend whilst they were walking down the hallway.

Now I know things just don't "happen" for no reason, and that both my daughter and our dog get along fine and spend lots of time together so this has come as a surprise.

The only thing I can think of is that there had been food preparation in the kitchen which was near to where it happened (though this always happens), it was getting close to the dogs dinner time but we hadn't eaten which is the general cue that they eat afterwards by which time our daughter is in bed, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to why this happened.

I think he may have done it as I (the boss) wasn't there, he obviously thinks he is above our daughter or was challenging her somehow? not sure but he was corrected and put outside straight away. The other reason I feel it may be as he's about 18 months and entire (not for long)

I fully blame myself for mismanaging the dog but I'm not entirely sure what we have to do to rectify the situation.

So far what we've decided on is;

Any interaction as always will be with us right next to our baby, but with us holding her as normally she likes to climb over him and he has always been gentle with her even though he is a big dog.

Secondly food, they never eat with her around (though she has fed him bits of rusk that he has previously taken very genlty from her, I know this is wrong and hasn't happened for a while)

We really want them to get along fine (which they do) as she adores the dogs and loves being around them, but just in a safer manner. The dogs spend most of the time outside and only come in for short periods and at night time.

Any ideas welcome.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

with a baby involved i wouldn't be doing anything (especially some of cesar milan's methods) without a behaviourist except to keep them separated and / or supervised at all times

[all creatures]

My border collie male (entire) challenged ME for the first time ever when he was 5yrs old (I was growling at him, verbally, for peeing on the patio pot plants..) It was such a shock for me. We also had our first child (3 weeks old) when it happened and I was concerned about this.

I took him to the Vet straight away and discussed this - he recommended having him de-sexed - especially as we now had a child, and he was a fully mature male feeling his oats.

We did this and never had a problem for the next 7yrs of his life.

However, he was never allowed in the babies room. Never was he allowed to have physical contact with Grace until she was walking - and he was a very well trained dog. It was just commonsense to me at the time - I am no expert. Supervision is all very well - but will you be able to react fast enough to prevent a bite? It can all happen in a split second.

But if there were to be ongoing problems - he would have been re-homed, even though I adored him. You can always have another dog..... It's not worth the risk and you would never forgive yourself if the child ended up scarred for life. Dogs are an animal at the end of the day. I don't think anyone can predict them 100% of the time?

As someone mentioned...your child is "beneath" your dog in the pack order, especially as the dog came first also...don't ever forget that.

I hope it works out for you and your family.

[Dogsrawesome]

Cesar Millan had some episodes on children/babies and dogs. If you like Cesar and his way with dogs

I think he is awesome

[BMAK]

The dog could have been acting possessive over something or guarding something?

You mentioned the preparing food the dog doesn't need to be next to it to claim the dog could have seen your child as a threat if she was running towards him.

This is how one of my dogs reacts around other dogs when she is claiming a toy or food area she will stand near it guarding that area and will let any other dog not to come near by snapping the air and will go back to being friendly as soon as the article or food has been removed she has never snapped at human or child so wouldn't have a clue if something similar has happened.

Hope you can find what triggered this.

Your dog wouldn't understand what being put in time out was (on a chain) it has no meaning.

Good luck.

[jacqui835]

I am sorry to hear this, that would be very frightning. I definitely think a behaviouralist is the way to go, as for me this would be an issue too risky to take any chances on.

Just in regards to what other people have said in this thread though, my 2c...

I like Cesar Milan too, though I do think his some of methods are for experts and detached people only. I think the most important part of what he does is the 'mood', the calm assertiveness aspect, and that is almost impossible to achieve when it's your own dog. I can do that easily with my sister's dogs and get amazing results, but put me in front of my dobe, and well, we're just too close, it doesn't work because I love him too much and it clouds everything, (I would be one of those doctors who couldn't operate on someone I loved). That said, I claim things all the time. I walk towards him until he sits down and looks up at me. If he ever disobeys me, or doesn't respond quickly enough (decides to sniff something on the way whilst coming to me etc), I will walk slowly towards him until he gives up and sits down and waits for me. I will touch him on the neck or on his side next to his back legs to get his attention focused on me if I have to. I used Cesar's methods to teach him (with a check lead) to walk nicely on a flat collar and lead. So these are some of the things I think everyone can take from Cesar and use with their own dogs, I have found them to be very helpful.

I wouldn't growl at my dog though. I have an entire male doberman who has a very good understanding that whilst we are all part of the family/pack, he is a dog and we are human. Humans have food, can come and go as they please and own everything. I don't growl at my dog because I'm not a dog, and I don't want him to think I'm a dog and try and treat me like one (he is stronger than me). Instead, I have tried to teach him how to first tell a human you have a problem, and then how to ask for something, and he now responds very differently, as I think dogs should, to people than what he does with dogs.

[persephone]

it doesn't work because I love him too much and it clouds everything

This is interesting- so if you have children-you cannot effectively discipline them if you love them dearly? I figure if you love a dog/child a LOT ,then you will take a step backwards if needed, to be able to teach and discipline them as they grow. Loving translates into preparing them to behave in a socially acceptable manner- to learn consequences of behaviour,and to enjoy praise earned ..Just my take on it.

'LOVE' should be the window of light- letting you see what's needed,and a source of strength to carry it out :D

[all creatures]

it doesn't work because I love him too much and it clouds everything

This is interesting- so if you have children-you cannot effectively discipline them if you love them dearly? I figure if you love a dog/child a LOT ,then you will take a step backwards if needed, to be able to teach and discipline them as they grow. Loving translates into preparing them to behave in a socially acceptable manner- to learn consequences of behaviour,and to enjoy praise earned :D ..Just my take on it.

'LOVE' should be the window of light- letting you see what's needed,and a source of strength to carry it out :D

I like this post - it is thoughtful and wise.

Interestingly the word "discipline" is derived from the word disciple - which means "to teach"

It's a shame it seems to have become a bad word.

[siks3]

This problem can be easily avoided and should have never happened.

I have 4 children and have had 3 dogs over the course of their lives.

Your dog should not go near your baby ever not it's clothes cot nothing.

No method of positive training will do this effectively.

You need a prong collar and a long line lay your kids clothing on the floor and let the dog in as soon as it goes near the clothes give Extremely hard correction as hard as you can.

Repeat this until the dog will not go near them.

Your dog will learn that if he goes near the baby or anything that smell like the baby is a big no no.

This is what a proper trainer will do. Do not consult some positive reinforcement rubbish trainer.

Do not attempt this with out a good trainers guidance it is only an idea of what works.

If you check out the leerberg dog training website here. http://leerburg.com/dogs-babies.htm

This has some great information on dogs and babies.

I hope after the dog snapped at your baby there was some form of correction.

I would personally never let this dog near your baby and would implement the method above as a safe guard.

[Crisovar]

This problem can be easily avoided and should have never happened.

I have 4 children and have had 3 dogs over the course of their lives.

Your dog should not go near your baby ever not it's clothes cot nothing.

No method of positive training will do this effectively.

You need a prong collar and a long line lay your kids clothing on the floor and let the dog in as soon as it goes near the clothes give Extremely hard correction as hard as you can.

Repeat this until the dog will not go near them.

Your dog will learn that if he goes near the baby or anything that smell like the baby is a big no no.

This is what a proper trainer will do. Do not consult some positive reinforcement rubbish trainer.

Do not attempt this with out a good trainers guidance it is only an idea of what works.

If you check out the leerberg dog training website here. http://leerburg.com/dogs-babies.htm

This has some great information on dogs and babies.

I hope after the dog snapped at your baby there was some form of correction.

I would personally never let this dog near your baby and would implement the method above as a safe guard.

You cannot be serious.

[spyda62]

This problem can be easily avoided and should have never happened.

I have 4 children and have had 3 dogs over the course of their lives.

Your dog should not go near your baby ever not it's clothes cot nothing.

No method of positive training will do this effectively.

You need a prong collar and a long line lay your kids clothing on the floor and let the dog in as soon as it goes near the clothes give Extremely hard correction as hard as you can.

Repeat this until the dog will not go near them.

Your dog will learn that if he goes near the baby or anything that smell like the baby is a big no no.

This is what a proper trainer will do. Do not consult some positive reinforcement rubbish trainer.

Do not attempt this with out a good trainers guidance it is only an idea of what works.

If you check out the leerberg dog training website here. http://leerburg.com/dogs-babies.htm

This has some great information on dogs and babies.

I hope after the dog snapped at your baby there was some form of correction.

I would personally never let this dog near your baby and would implement the method above as a safe guard.

What a load of rubbish!

What is that teaching the dog?

That is such dangerous advice to be giving people.

Edited January 26, 2011 by spyda62

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

This problem can be easily avoided and should have never happened.

I have 4 children and have had 3 dogs over the course of their lives.

Your dog should not go near your baby ever not it's clothes cot nothing.

No method of positive training will do this effectively.

You need a prong collar and a long line lay your kids clothing on the floor and let the dog in as soon as it goes near the clothes give Extremely hard correction as hard as you can.

Repeat this until the dog will not go near them.

Your dog will learn that if he goes near the baby or anything that smell like the baby is a big no no.

This is what a proper trainer will do. Do not consult some positive reinforcement rubbish trainer.

Do not attempt this with out a good trainers guidance it is only an idea of what works.

If you check out the leerberg dog training website here. http://leerburg.com/dogs-babies.htm

This has some great information on dogs and babies.

I hope after the dog snapped at your baby there was some form of correction.

I would personally never let this dog near your baby and would implement the method above as a safe guard.

i find your posts to give out quite dangerous advice. i really think you need to be very careful about what you advise given you haven't even seen this dog. :laugh:

[Staranais]

You need a prong collar and a long line lay your kids clothing on the floor and let the dog in as soon as it goes near the clothes give Extremely hard correction as hard as you can.

Repeat this until the dog will not go near them.

Your dog will learn that if he goes near the baby or anything that smell like the baby is a big no no.

This is what a proper trainer will do. Do not consult some positive reinforcement rubbish trainer.

Do not attempt this with out a good trainers guidance it is only an idea of what works.

Wow, I guess I don't know any proper trainers, then, since I don't think I know any trainers who would advise that.

[persephone]

Your dog will learn that if he goes near the baby or anything that smell like the baby is a big no no.

This is what a proper trainer will do. Do not consult some positive reinforcement rubbish trainer.

You have given dangerous advice .

You have also different ideas of what a 'proper' trainer is.

There are many ways of training .. not all involve purely positive ..and none of the methods I know involve very harsh treatment as you describe.

Edited January 26, 2011 by persephone

[huski]

You need a prong collar and a long line lay your kids clothing on the floor and let the dog in as soon as it goes near the clothes give Extremely hard correction as hard as you can.

Repeat this until the dog will not go near them.

Your dog will learn that if he goes near the baby or anything that smell like the baby is a big no no.

This is what a proper trainer will do. Do not consult some positive reinforcement rubbish trainer.

Do not attempt this with out a good trainers guidance it is only an idea of what works.

Wow, I guess I don't know any proper trainers, then, since I don't think I know any trainers who would advise that.

Same here.

Siks3 your post made me feel sick in the stomach, to know that's how you've treated your own dogs

[siks3]

You need a prong collar and a long line lay your kids clothing on the floor and let the dog in as soon as it goes near the clothes give Extremely hard correction as hard as you can.

Repeat this until the dog will not go near them.

Your dog will learn that if he goes near the baby or anything that smell like the baby is a big no no.

This is what a proper trainer will do. Do not consult some positive reinforcement rubbish trainer.

Do not attempt this with out a good trainers guidance it is only an idea of what works.

Wow, I guess I don't know any proper trainers, then, since I don't think I know any trainers who would advise that.

You probably don't.

What would your trainer advise distract the dog with a cookie

When a dog does something it is not supposed to do a correction is needed pretty simple really.

I told the OP to get advise from a good trainer and not to attempt the above alone.

It was only given as an example of what has worked for me and to back it up I put in a link from the leerburg website that states something similar.

The method does work I have used it on all my dogs when I have had small children.

Time to start treating dogs like dogs people all this over complicating things is really a joke.

Dog training in the last 15 years has gone to pieces. My opinion is you can not train a dog properly without negative reinforcement.

If somebody has a different opinion they are welcome to it and I respect it.

In my experience the results from positive reinforcement training only may be similar but what happens if the distraction is greater then the food reward the whole process goes to pieces.

I am really getting sick of this site people ask for advise and then you get shot down with stupid comments.

If some body posted a positive only method of dealing with the problem I would not shoot the poster down with negative comments I would still offer my own advise and let the OP choose what type of trainer they would go to for help.

We are all different and we all have different methods of training the OP sounds smart enough to know to contact a professional.

I think she is only looking for differences of opinion not a problem solve over the internet.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

You need a prong collar and a long line lay your kids clothing on the floor and let the dog in as soon as it goes near the clothes give Extremely hard correction as hard as you can.

Repeat this until the dog will not go near them.

Your dog will learn that if he goes near the baby or anything that smell like the baby is a big no no.

This is what a proper trainer will do. Do not consult some positive reinforcement rubbish trainer.

Do not attempt this with out a good trainers guidance it is only an idea of what works.

Wow, I guess I don't know any proper trainers, then, since I don't think I know any trainers who would advise that.

You probably don't.

What would your trainer advise distract the dog with a cookie

When a dog does something it is not supposed to do a correction is needed pretty simple really.

I told the OP to get advise from a good trainer and not to attempt the above alone.

It was only given as an example of what has worked for me and to back it up I put in a link from the leerburg website that states something similar.

The method does work I have used it on all my dogs when I have had small children.

Time to start treating dogs like dogs people all this over complicating things is really a joke.

Dog training in the last 15 years has gone to pieces. My opinion is you can not train a dog properly without negative reinforcement.

If somebody has a different opinion they are welcome to it and I respect it.

In my experience the results from positive reinforcement training only may be similar but what happens if the distraction is greater then the food reward the whole process goes to pieces.

I am really getting sick of this site people ask for advise and then you get shot down with stupid comments.

If some body posted a positive only method of dealing with the problem I would not shoot the poster down with negative comments I would still offer my own advise and let the OP choose what type of trainer they would go to for help.

We are all different and we all have different methods of training the OP sounds smart enough to know to contact a professional.

I think she is only looking for differences of opinion not a problem solve over the internet.

no one is saying positive only just that your methods are dangerous as is the advice you give.

if you are sick of this site you are free to leave it

[Crisovar]

I have had dogs for a lot longer than 15 years, more than double it actually, and I have never had to resort to your method to ensure the safety of children. Not one of my dogs has ever harmed a child, that includes large dominant entire males.

I have never treated my dogs like children, they are dogs, but they did not have to be jerked around on the end of a leash to teach them, I don't use food either.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

I have had dogs for a lot longer than 15 years, more than double it actually, and I have never had to resort to your method to ensure the safety of children. Not one of my dogs has ever harmed a child, that includes large dominant entire males.

I have never treated my dogs like children, they are dogs, but they did not have to be jerked around on the end of a leash to teach them, I don't use food either.

x2 :laugh:

[huski]

You probably don't.

It is laughable how wrong you are, especially considering I know for a fact that Staranais has no problem with using corrections when warranted or using tools like prongs.

When a dog does something it is not supposed to do a correction is needed pretty simple really.

I told the OP to get advise from a good trainer and not to attempt the above alone.

It was only given as an example of what has worked for me and to back it up I put in a link from the leerburg website that states something similar.

The method does work I have used it on all my dogs when I have had small children.

Time to start treating dogs like dogs people all this over complicating things is really a joke.

Dog training in the last 15 years has gone to pieces. My opinion is you can not train a dog properly without negative reinforcement.

If somebody has a different opinion they are welcome to it and I respect it.

In my experience the results from positive reinforcement training only may be similar but what happens if the distraction is greater then the food reward the whole process goes to pieces.

I am really getting sick of this site people ask for advise and then you get shot down with stupid comments.

If some body posted a positive only method of dealing with the problem I would not shoot the poster down with negative comments I would still offer my own advise and let the OP choose what type of trainer they would go to for help.

We are all different and we all have different methods of training the OP sounds smart enough to know to contact a professional.

I think she is only looking for differences of opinion not a problem solve over the internet.

What you suggested was dangerous, stupid and abusive, pretty simple really - especially considering you have NO IDEA what prompted the dog's behaviour in the original post.

I don't know any one on here who ONLY works in the PR quadrant, in fact you'll find this is still one of the only forums on the net that welcomes people who use prongs, e-collars etc properly. There are many ways to correct a dog and they don't all involve giving a huge yank on a prong collar like you've suggested.

You obviously don't respect anyone who uses methods different to your own, considering you've just spent two posts explaining how anyone who doesn't agree with you clearly doesn't know any decent trainers, or only trains their dogs with cookies, doesn't have a clue etc.

The fact that the only way you can think of to deal with the problem you think the OP has is to use the method you described just proves how little experience you have in dog training.