Loopy Lola Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Can anyone please advise on the implications for the pups from this mating please .......they are 5 months old and seem healthy and of good temperament even though they haven't had a good start to life . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laneka Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) I have done this mating except it was father to daughter. All pups strong, healthy, good hip scores and now nearly 7 years old. As for temperament, both parents had exceptional temperaments and all progeny have the same. Edited January 13, 2011 by laneka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopy Lola Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 I have done this mating except it was father to daughter. All pups strong, healthy, good hip scores and now nearly 7 years old. As for temperament, both parents had exceptional temperaments and all progeny have the same. Thankyou Laneka ........I'm not a breeder and have had lots of conflicting advice ........these are surrendered rescue dogs . The mum is a purebred border collie and the father is a 12 month old bc x cavalier pup from the bitches last litter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 There are no issues inherent in such a close mating - it really depends so much on the genetic behind the dogs. The mum could be carrying some undesireable genes which still appearing perfectly OK, so is she a ''good'' purebred or a BYB one herself? Have a look at the genetic issues in Borders. Cav x Border Collie - sorry, yuck! - what were those people thinking?? (sorry, assuming there was thought involved) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstar Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 If the mother has any issues be it health or temparment it can be doubled by having her son as the father of these pups. Breeders often do close breedings like these but that is only after years of studing the lines and knowing what problems are there. Leanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 You are looking at potential CL and CEA if the BC wasn't tested. TNS is probably not as big issue as there should have been some symptons by 5 months if the pup has recieved its puppy vaccinations but that isn't a guarantee as some affected dogs don't show symptons till a bit older. Both TNS and CL are fatal. http://www.bccnsw.com/hereditary.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopy Lola Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) Thankyou everyone , don't know about mums breeding but she seems to be a very mellow even tempered girl ......but this is her 4th litter back to back The original father is apparently the next door registered breeders Cavalier ( they are on 5 acre blocks ) . We are taking the dad and the 3 pups ......dad is lovely even though she has kept him on a chain because the bitch is in season again ......but she is still wandering around the property and owner won't hand her over too ( says she is going to a friend )......it is a huge mess Edited January 13, 2011 by Loopy Lola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) Thankyou everyone , don't know about mums breeding but she seems to be a very mellow even tempered girl ......but this is her 4th litter back to back The original father is apparently the next door registered breeders Cavalier ( they are on 5 acre blocks ) . We are taking the dad and the 3 pups ......dad is lovely even though she has kept him on a chain because the bitch is in season again ......but she is still wandering around the property and owner won't hand her over too ( says she is going to a friend )......it is a huge mess If you are taking the pups I would definitely DNA test for CL ($55) and have an eye test for CEA. CL is a devasting disease as the symptons don't show till about 14 months and then the dog slowly goes mad and are usually euthanised before 3. CEA in BCs is not usually s bad as in othe affected breeds but you could lead youself open to problems if you rehome the dogs and they are affected especially as the risk is more than normal because of the inbreeding. Edited January 13, 2011 by Janba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thankyou everyone , don't know about mums breeding but she seems to be a very mellow even tempered girl ......but this is her 4th litter back to back The original father is apparently the next door registered breeders Cavalier ( they are on 5 acre blocks ) . We are taking the dad and the 3 pups ......dad is lovely even though she has kept him on a chain because the bitch is in season again ......but she is still wandering around the property and owner won't hand her over too ( says she is going to a friend )......it is a huge mess If you are taking the pups I would definitely DNA test for CL ($55) and have an eye test for CEA. CL is a devasting disease as the symptons don't show till about 14 months and then the dog slowly goes mad and are usually euthanised before 3. CEA in BCs is not usually s bad as in othe affected breeds but you could lead youself open to problems if you rehome the dogs and they are affected especially as the risk is more than normal because of the inbreeding. Would an eye test at 5months show the CEA anyway? I don't know about BCs but to pick it up in Aussies it generally is done much earlier. A DNA test for CEA would be better surely? I have an Aussie here who is DNA affected but it wasn't picked up on her puppy eye check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) Thankyou everyone , don't know about mums breeding but she seems to be a very mellow even tempered girl ......but this is her 4th litter back to back The original father is apparently the next door registered breeders Cavalier ( they are on 5 acre blocks ) . We are taking the dad and the 3 pups ......dad is lovely even though she has kept him on a chain because the bitch is in season again ......but she is still wandering around the property and owner won't hand her over too ( says she is going to a friend )......it is a huge mess If you are taking the pups I would definitely DNA test for CL ($55) and have an eye test for CEA. CL is a devasting disease as the symptons don't show till about 14 months and then the dog slowly goes mad and are usually euthanised before 3. CEA in BCs is not usually s bad as in othe affected breeds but you could lead youself open to problems if you rehome the dogs and they are affected especially as the risk is more than normal because of the inbreeding. Would an eye test at 5months show the CEA anyway? I don't know about BCs but to pick it up in Aussies it generally is done much earlier. A DNA test for CEA would be better surely? I have an Aussie here who is DNA affected but it wasn't picked up on her puppy eye check. A DNA test would be better but I was thinking of the cost. A physical eye exam should pick up aany problems if it was a bad case that would affect the dogs life surely. ETA If it is a mild case then it wouldn't cause a lot of problems in a pet dog and I am assuming these pups will be desexed before rehoming. Edited January 13, 2011 by Janba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 A DNA test would be better but I was thinking of the cost. A physical eye exam should pick up aany problems if it was a bad case that would affect the dogs life surely. ETA If it is a mild case then it wouldn't cause a lot of problems in a pet dog and I am assuming these pups will be desexed before rehoming. Fair enough. CEA is nice and expensive to DNA test for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopy Lola Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thankyou everyone , don't know about mums breeding but she seems to be a very mellow even tempered girl ......but this is her 4th litter back to back The original father is apparently the next door registered breeders Cavalier ( they are on 5 acre blocks ) . We are taking the dad and the 3 pups ......dad is lovely even though she has kept him on a chain because the bitch is in season again ......but she is still wandering around the property and owner won't hand her over too ( says she is going to a friend )......it is a huge mess :D If you are taking the pups I would definitely DNA test for CL ($55) and have an eye test for CEA. CL is a devasting disease as the symptons don't show till about 14 months and then the dog slowly goes mad and are usually euthanised before 3. CEA in BCs is not usually s bad as in othe affected breeds but you could lead youself open to problems if you rehome the dogs and they are affected especially as the risk is more than normal because of the inbreeding. Would an eye test at 5months show the CEA anyway? I don't know about BCs but to pick it up in Aussies it generally is done much earlier. A DNA test for CEA would be better surely? I have an Aussie here who is DNA affected but it wasn't picked up on her puppy eye check. A DNA test would be better but I was thinking of the cost. A physical eye exam should pick up aany problems if it was a bad case that would affect the dogs life surely. ETA If it is a mild case then it wouldn't cause a lot of problems in a pet dog and I am assuming these pups will be desexed before rehoming. Yes absolutely , they will all be desexed , chipped and vacced as is our policy ........ all pups are done before going to new homes . We have a wonderful vet and will discuss all the tests with him ! The pups are actually gorgeous ..... the 2 females are black and white and you would have a hard time distinguishing them from a purebred and the male is red and white . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopy Lola Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 A DNA test would be better but I was thinking of the cost. A physical eye exam should pick up aany problems if it was a bad case that would affect the dogs life surely. ETA If it is a mild case then it wouldn't cause a lot of problems in a pet dog and I am assuming these pups will be desexed before rehoming. Fair enough. CEA is nice and expensive to DNA test for. How much roughly is the DNA test .......we have had one done on a pound pup before but it was to determine what breed he wasn't so he could be released . That was 140 plus 70 dollars for express post at a Uni in Melbourne . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 http://www.animalnetwork.com.au/tests/ $200 normally or $140 for a pup but not 100% sure what "puppy" means to them, I've heard it means under 12 months from one source and under 12 weeks from another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The CEA DNA test is over $200 per dog, the TNS is about $88 and the CL is $55. You can get the TNE and CL done athe Uni of NSW by sending the blood samples. A physical eye exam is well under $100 but I can't remember how much as I haven't had one done for years. If the pups had their under 8 weeks vaccinations and the 2nd vaccination with no side effects TNS is not a such a worry. Also TNS pups tend to be smaller and less thrifty. You can download the forms here http://www.bccnsw.com/dnatesting.html A lot of vets are not really up on TNS and CL. You might also be able to find an eye clinic being run by one of you states breed clubs and then testing is cheaper. Ring you states CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopy Lola Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 They have had their vaccinations .......that is about the only good thing the owner did for them . Thankyou for all the information , you have been a great help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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