stacyk Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Ok, I know a cropped dog can not be shown here is Australia. I do not understand why an imported docked dog can be shown whilst an imported cropped dog can't, with both procedures being illegal in Australia now. Can anyone clarify for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havasneeze Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) Ok, I know a cropped dog can not be shown here is Australia.I do not understand why an imported docked dog can be shown whilst an imported cropped dog can't, with both procedures being illegal in Australia now. Can anyone clarify for me? I'll give this a go, though I'm happy to be corrected. I breed and show Schipperkes, which are traditionally docked dogs. Tail docking is still included in the standard, even though we no longer dock tails in Australia (supposedly). There are also natural bobtails within the Schipperke breed. Nowhere within the standards in Australia (that I'm aware of) is cropping included or mentioned... So my thoughts would be that since cropping is no longer included in the standards, that would be the reason why. I would think that when docked tails are no longer mentioned within the standards here, that there will be no docked dogs shown, since it no longer would meet the standard for the breed. Edited January 13, 2011 by Havasneeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I think probably because it has probably never been legal (and certainly never been ''the norm" - legal or not) to crop in Australia. Also, cropping was banned in the UK such a long time ago and the Australian dog world followed the UK dog world for many many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkeyre Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Docking is part of a breed standard. As far as I know; cropping is not. Docking is not a superficial surgery. Is cropping necessary for the proper performance/job of a dog? ..this could be an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I for one hope they never are so stupid to ban docked imports being shown because whilst it is illegal to dock it still can be done legally if the tail is injured & documented correctly plus the other already mentioned a number of breeds have the bob tail gene . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CaptainCourageous Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 My understanding is ear cropping was opposed by the Australian dog fraternity both before and when it was made illegal in Australia. The Australian dog fraternity supported it being made illegal. Tail "docking" has never been opposed by the Australian dog fraternity and continues to be supported in our breed standards. That is why the Labour Party's ban on "docking" is so unjust. When they commenced moves to introduce it they agreed to it at a COAG meeting where New Zealand had a seat, but NZ has since rejected the ban. So it didn't get support of all COAG members, only the Australian Labour Ministers of Agriculture. CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Docking is part of a breed standard. As far as I know; cropping is not. It is in countries where cropping is the norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowenhart Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Docking of tails for prophylactic or therapeutic reasons is NOT illegal. There is no prophylactic reasons for cropping ears. Ear cropping is banned by all ANKC member bodies, dogs can only compete in performance if they come in with legally cropped ears. Docked tails have NOT been banned by ANKC member boies. For me these have always been 2 very different procedures. Tails have been docked to protect the dogs from damage historically. [i do not have a previously docked/cropped breed] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaar Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I don't agree with cropping, as a matter of fact I just don't plain like it, however, some breeds are cropped for health reasons. Great Danes have cropped ears because when they ran through thick scrub the ears were less likely to be torn when rigid and upright than flopping everywhere and loose. So the argument health vs beauty doesn't work with docking vs cropping. Eventually neither cropped nor docked breeds will be allowed to be exhibited in Australia, it's just a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysup Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Give it time, docked dogs will eventually be banned from the show ring too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisart Dobes Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 It pains me to read this and while I know that there is a high possibilty of docked breeds being banned from the showring through the ANKC I dread the day. We obviously have a docked breed. Our last two litters have full tails (not docked) as per the law in this country. The first full tailed litter had 5 surviving puppies due to viral infection and of those 5 we have 1 bitch with constant tail injuries & broken tip of tail, 2 boys with broken tips of tail, 1 boy with injuries further down tail and the other bitch with no injuries to date - they are 7 months old. The second full tailed litter had 9 surviving puppies and of those we have 1 boy with broken tip of tail and two boys & two girls with injuries further down the tail - they are 3 months old. From our experience I know that at least one of the first litter will have to be docked properly and who knows with the rest. But we cannot find a vet to do the right thing by the dogs with these constant injuries and dock them. My point is - What happens with show dogs with full tails, who have injuries sustained that require removal of tail ??? Will she not be able to be shown under that change of rules. Not at all fair when we are abiding by the law in this country to have that taken away from us due to ANKC ruling. I hope it never changes and we will be sending our bitches to NZ in the future. To much stress to the dogs we have on the ground up to date with full tails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CaptainCourageous Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Eventually neither cropped nor docked breeds will be allowed to be exhibited in Australia, it's just a matter of time. or a matter of will and/or lack of it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowenhart Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) I don't agree with cropping, as a matter of fact I just don't plain like it, however, some breeds are cropped for health reasons.Great Danes have cropped ears because when they ran through thick scrub the ears were less likely to be torn when rigid and upright than flopping everywhere and loose. So the argument health vs beauty doesn't work with docking vs cropping. How many Great Danes are running through thick scrub? Fighting dogs were also cropped to prevent the opposition grabbing their ears but dog fighting is banned in this country so there is no basis to crop for prophylactic reasons. Gun dogs are still regularly used for their original purpose, and in some areas where docking has been banned for a number of years, working gun dogs have been given a loop hole to allow them to be docked. Of course hunting is being severely restricted too so it won't be long til that is banned as well. Edited January 14, 2011 by Lowenhart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Docking is part of a breed standard. As far as I know; cropping is not. Docking is not a superficial surgery. Is cropping necessary for the proper performance/job of a dog? ..this could be an answer. I was once told that cropping of ears originated as an attempt to control ear problems in floppy ear breeds?? Don't know if this was the case or not but it's one of the theories I have heard over the years. I think it probably had more to do with 'fashion' and getting a certain 'look'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye2 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I always thought (maybe wrong though) showing cropped dogs was opposed as it was like advertising "this dog is imported" so the dog fraternity decided they would ban it in fairness to others as it was illegal here anyway. If that is the case what does it say about docking now. I think in fairness to all if showing an imported docked dog is okay then showing a imported cropped dog should be okay as they are both banned procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I was looking into the rules re: docking/cropping/debarking, and surprisingly enough, found a rule that states, should the proper paperwork be done, a cropped dog can be exhibited, however it is highly unlikely that the dog would be rewarded based on the tradition of non cropping here in this country. Docked tails will eventually be unable to be shown if the fashion follows some European countries where a time was put on any dogs born after a certain date, imported or not, if docked, would not be permitted to be exhibited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 The rule is even more unfair in the UK, if we import a cropped dog, it can not take part in any KC dog sport, not just showing. Docked dogs are allowed to compete at shows where the public aren't charged an entrance fee - a somewhat odd law of the land! It seems odd that we are encoraged to increase the breed gene pools with imported dogs and then they say but you can't compete if it happens to come from a country where cropping is common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laneka Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 While I agree in part with being able to show a docked dog, I also think it is unfair on those who show tailed (traditionally docked) dogs. I don't know how many times I have seen a beautiful tailed dog being defeated by a docked dog who really should be a pet. It is the judges who put these dogs up and while this happens there will be a call for the ban of showing all docked dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ark Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) I also show tailed dogs in a traditionally docked/natural bobtailed breed. It's a hard slog - but so rewarding when your tailed dog is recognised for its merits despite the fluffy thing hanging off its backside. In our breed, the danger of trying to breed natural bobs is that they are not all going to be nice, tidy tails of less than 4 inches as per the standard (or what it used to be). You end up with short tails, 1/2 tails, 3/4 tails and if you are doing the right thing then you can be stuck with an odd-length tail. Ironically, whilst I don't seem to be able to breed Aussie Shepherds with nice short tails we now have a docked greyhound at home due to a major tail injury that had to be fixed. If ever there was a breed that could be docked for health reasons you would think it would be greyhounds! Edited January 14, 2011 by The Ark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye2 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Interesting point about bobtails. Shouldn't we select the puppy that best meets the standard, not the one with the best bobtail. I see this in boxers who have imported dogs from UK that were cross bred with corgis to get the bobtail gene. The standard of these bobtail boxers being show is very poor and is effecting the standard of the breed. They are purely selected for their tails which don't meet the standard anyway with a fish hook on the end. If this is the best they have to select in their litters then i would hate to see the worst. My point is that all for the sake of the tail the breed has been severely effected in its quality of dogs being shown. I Judges need to be aware of this and shouldn't penalise a dog with a natural tail in traditionally docked breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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