Im Going To Get Flamed For This.. I Do Feel Really Bad Though..

[DobieMum]

No Flaming here

This happened to me but on the other end of the stick about 15 years ago. The farmer hadn't shot my girl, but she was harrassing his cattle. I went and had her put down and strangely I was flamed then by alot of people for doing it. I couldn't rehome her as she was jumping fences and harrassing stock. I feel for you, and you did the right thing.

[Staranais]

Easy to say, but don't feel bad.

We often travel to sheep/cattle areas with my 3 BC's, but not for their enjoyment. 2 of the 3 are 'half trained' on stock (got half way into it and decided it wasn't really for us, but they LOVE it) so my biggest fear is that they will get away from us and end up with lead poisoning.

If that were to happen then so be it - my fault for not looking after them properly. People should not need a second lesson.

That's why my girl usually wears an ecollar (to enforce recall if needed) and a muzzle when offleash in rural areas. Not saying you should do that (you probably can't with the herding), but it is a big fear of mine too that I'll somehow lose my girl into a rural area to a farmer (she's generally quite OK with sheep but who knows what a dog will do when unsupervised?) or poison. So she's very well dressed when we go tramping - muzzle, e collar, regular collar...

To the OP, it's sad for you (and very sad for the owners of the dog), but it was an understandable thing to do, I think. Although to be completely honest, although I realise the farmer is well within their rights to shoot in that situation, if it were my dog that somehow escaped and got shot for killing a chicken without the farmer making an attempt to call her over first, I would probably be upset with the farmer for not giving her a chance by calling before shooting (as well as being very angry at myself for letting her get out). I probably wouldn't be terribly reasonable if you'd just shot my dog, as I'm only human.

Edited January 13, 2011 by Staranais

[JulesP]

To the OP, it's sad for you (and very sad for the owners of the dog), but it was an understandable thing to do, I think. Although to be completely honest, although I realise the farmer is well within their rights to shoot in that situation, if it were my dog that somehow escaped and got shot for killing a chicken without the farmer making an attempt to call her over first, I would probably be upset with the farmer for not giving her a chance by calling before shooting (as well as being very angry at myself for letting her get out). I probably wouldn't be terribly reasonable if you'd just shot my dog, as I'm only human.

Same here. I have my dogs securely fenced but sometimes accidents happen. I would be very upset if they got out once and someone shot them. Not likely to happen in my area thanks goodness. Stock would be a different story as I am in a market garden area!

This isn't aimed at the OP btw as they said they would have called if they had seen the collars.

[wings]

I live rural and if my girl got out and got shot I would understand. I would be heartbroken but I wouldn't blame the farmer. I feel for you, but I also think you did the right thing.

[Guest bigdogg]

Unlucky dogs i keep telling myself..

If they had of been another colour, different size.. They would still be alive..

[rastus_froggy]

Bit OT but I like your kennel set up.

[Staranais]

Unlucky dogs i keep telling myself..

If they had of been another colour, different size.. They would still be alive..

Yes, it must be tricky for you guys with the dingos - at least we haven't got that issue over here, everything that looks like a dog is a dog!

[colliehound]

Good to see all support for you. A horrible situation.

As many have already said "law of the land".

Same applies out here - if it has two legs or four and is hassling stock or fowl - shoot first - get details later. (the local police told me that is why we don't get many buglaries out here).

Anyone living in a rural area will know that. No second chances. I used to have the city view- but you cannot live out rural for more than a few weeks and not turn from "aww pretty fox/dingo/dog pups" to "where is my gun".

Take on board all the support you are getting - hopefully these people will learn.

As an aside- how young was this girl and how far onto your property did she have to come to ask you? I would question letting a young girl wander onto properties of people they don't know - or maybe they had line of sight from the car - just curious?

Colliehound

[Guest bigdogg]

Im guessing around 15 - 16.. May have been younger?

I live right on the highway - my house is probably 150m from the highway.. To get to my house is a bitumen road in an L shape.. I saw her car pull up outside (near the highway) I had the gates locked, so she had to walk in.. I walked towards her, as I saw it was a girl and didnt want her to see the dead dogs. I had the dogs collars in my hands.

[gwenneth1]

LIved on the land most of my life growing up rescued unwanted dogs dumped by passing tourists and also failed working collies, kelpies and hunting dogs left on the stock route to die. They have been successfully rehomed. One was a border collie that lived to nearly 17. Wild dogs and those that form a pack are a different kettle of fish altogether......

[Raelene]

To the OP, it's sad for you (and very sad for the owners of the dog), but it was an understandable thing to do, I think. Although to be completely honest, although I realise the farmer is well within their rights to shoot in that situation, if it were my dog that somehow escaped and got shot for killing a chicken without the farmer making an attempt to call her over first, I would probably be upset with the farmer for not giving her a chance by calling before shooting (as well as being very angry at myself for letting her get out). I probably wouldn't be terribly reasonable if you'd just shot my dog, as I'm only human.

Same here. I have my dogs securely fenced but sometimes accidents happen. I would be very upset if they got out once and someone shot them. Not likely to happen in my area thanks goodness. Stock would be a different story as I am in a market garden area!

This isn't aimed at the OP btw as they said they would have called if they had seen the collars.

Accidents do happen and though I understand the law of the land (and I live on land too), I'd like to hope that where possible people would give the benefit of the doubt initially. Especially as it is the human's fault for containment rather than the dogs. I am not condoning lack of containment and know how important it is, I have a fully fenced houseyard plus very secure dog runs (I, like my neighbours, have stock).

Interesting reading some of the responses, I wonder if the same goes for chickens/cattle/horses that wander onto another person's property - if it is okay just to shoot them just for being there? Is that different to a dog just walking (not attacking/killing/harrassing) in the law of the land or the law generally?

I do feel sorry for those people that lost their dogs, though can understand the situation and am not flaming OP but hope that animal loving people would give a second chance rather than just shoot on sight (OP said she would have called if she had seen the collars). Of course, if it is a dangerous situation then it is right thing to do.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Raelene

[colliehound]

I am very sure it is completely different - if the animal (what ever it is) is happily wondering around and not hassling, chasing, eating or attacking your stock, of course you are going to try and catch, deter, corner it first. BUT as OP said, when it is attacking your stock/fowl, all bets are off.

Colliehound

Accidents do happen and though I understand the law of the land (and I live on land too), I'd like to hope that where possible people would give the benefit of the doubt initially. Especially as it is the human's fault for containment rather than the dogs. I am not condoning lack of containment and know how important it is, I have a fully fenced houseyard plus very secure dog runs (I, like my neighbours, have stock).

Interesting reading some of the responses, I wonder if the same goes for chickens/cattle/horses that wander onto another person's property - if it is okay just to shoot them just for being there? Is that different to a dog just walking (not attacking/killing/harrassing) in the law of the land or the law generally?

I do feel sorry for those people that lost their dogs, though can understand the situation and am not flaming but hope that animal loving people would give a second chance rather than just shoot on sight. Of course, if it is a dangerous situation then it is right thing to do.

[cannibalgoldfish]

Interesting reading some of the responses, I wonder if the same goes for chickens/cattle/horses that wander onto another person's property - if it is okay just to shoot them just for being there? Is that different to a dog just walking (not attacking/killing/harrassing) in the law of the land or the law generally?

I read a little article in the paper about 3 zebras that escaped off a ranch (in America?) and were shot because they went onto other peoples land and chased their horses. So, yes in a way.

[persephone]

Cows that wander too near the coolroom are definitely shot

Horses/sheep/cows etc - no they aren't shot here .. at first...unless they break fences/owners have been asked to keep them confined/they are harassing/breeding with stock.

Dogs usually get one chance ... if they are not actually attacking anything, we call/offer food ... try & get them close to see any collars etc . Unfortunately, if that doesn't work , they are shot.

Edited January 14, 2011 by persephone

[Oliversmum]

You poor thing, I totally sympathize

A similar thing happened to me last week. Since I moved here the neighbours ACD has been coming on to my property. Ive spent a fortune on good fencing keeping my own pets and stock as safe as possible. He would get in to my garbage and stir my dogs up but he wouldnt let me near him. I learned from my other neighbours that he had killed their chooks then last week found him in my stock paddock with my lamb and chooks. I chased him out and blocked up the hole he had dug. I then left a friendly note for my neighbour asking if he could please keep his dog in as I worry about the lamb and chooks. He came around and apologized. The next day 3 of my 4 chooks were killed. I dont know if it was his dog or not but left another note saying the chooks were killed and and said it may have been his dog or a fox. I offered to help him construct a way to keep his dog in. Two days later he came over and said he had taken his dog to the pound. I felt so awful as there was no proof. I would have helped him do something to contain his dog, or at the least help rehome him straight in to another home rather than the pound. I keep thinking about his dog and wondering if he was rehomed or pts. It felt like he took very drastic action. Lovely man though who also insisted on paying for the chickens. It keeps running through my mind that maybe it was just foxes.

Clyde, I'm pretty sure that foxes would not leave any evidence, only a few feathers, if you actually found your chickens dead, it was not a fox. Don't be too hard on yourself, you've ogt to do what you got to do.

To the OP, no flaming, ultimately, you had dogs on your property killing your stock, you were well within your rights. I'm sorry you feel so bad, and I'm sorry to all involved, including the dogs.

[gwenneth1]

To the OP, it's sad for you (and very sad for the owners of the dog), but it was an understandable thing to do, I think. Although to be completely honest, although I realise the farmer is well within their rights to shoot in that situation, if it were my dog that somehow escaped and got shot for killing a chicken without the farmer making an attempt to call her over first, I would probably be upset with the farmer for not giving her a chance by calling before shooting (as well as being very angry at myself for letting her get out). I probably wouldn't be terribly reasonable if you'd just shot my dog, as I'm only human.

Same here. I have my dogs securely fenced but sometimes accidents happen. I would be very upset if they got out once and someone shot them. Not likely to happen in my area thanks goodness. Stock would be a different story as I am in a market garden area!

This isn't aimed at the OP btw as they said they would have called if they had seen the collars.

Accidents do happen and though I understand the law of the land (and I live on land too), I'd like to hope that where possible people would give the benefit of the doubt initially. Especially as it is the human's fault for containment rather than the dogs. I am not condoning lack of containment and know how important it is, I have a fully fenced houseyard plus very secure dog runs (I, like my neighbours, have stock).

Interesting reading some of the responses, I wonder if the same goes for chickens/cattle/horses that wander onto another person's property - if it is okay just to shoot them just for being there? Is that different to a dog just walking (not attacking/killing/harrassing) in the law of the land or the law generally?

I do feel sorry for those people that lost their dogs, though can understand the situation and am not flaming OP but hope that animal loving people would give a second chance rather than just shoot on sight (OP said she would have called if she had seen the collars). Of course, if it is a dangerous situation then it is right thing to do.

Yep I agree. Even in my house, as I've said , we were split on this one. Half vehemently argued the absolute right to shoot the dogs, the other half opposed that just as much. I'm amazed that the first shot didn't send the surviving dog running, most dogs aren't conditioned to gunshot noises and are scared witless by it and take off at a warped speed. Then I wasn't there, so maybe it wasn't about scaring the dogs off but shooting them to ensure they never had another chance at doing it again. The consolation for me here is from what i've read, I assume there was a scope on the rifle and they were cleanly and humanely shot at a distance and werent cornered to do it, shame the scope wasn't powerful enough to make the collars visible.

Killing a couple of chooks( for me )is different from hunting down sheep and stock, especially sheep which can die enmasse whether mauled or not. My daughter shows/breeds poultry and they all have names (yeah, not a word people ) so it was personal when I had a dog wander onto the property (gate left open by delivery man who obviously doesn't connect that livestock etc won't stay home) and kill one chook.

I was really ticked off and would be a liar if I said otherwise, but caught the dog and called the owner. Owner apologised profusely, the dog had been missing for three days and offered to pay for the chook. It was a family dog so for me personally, I was ultimately glad of the outcome and unless it was something I considered drastic, I would not shoot .

I've really good fencing and my dogs usually has somebody here, but if the extraordinary happened and they escaped and somebody shot them for that, intellectually I would know they had the right, but emotionally I would not accept it. My own family can't agree on this one, so I'm guessing others won't be able too either.

[BigPaws]

I didn't know people in Australia could have a gun and just shoot something because they thought it was something else and use that as an excuse....wow

[Tralee]

You don't say where you are Bigdog.

Dingos are protected in some states, and shooting them attracts huge penalties.

My dogs despatched of an aggressive rooster, in the school agriculture plot, that had not been corralled properly.

Understandably, the dogs did not take too kindly to being threatened by a big, gaudy, feathery thing.

Anyway, personally I would not have taken too kindly to the dogs being shot.

IMO I think you did the wrong thing. There are many other options. Maybe a warning shot or two or three.

Edited January 14, 2011 by pewithers

[myValkyrie]

If the dogs in question had just been lost, wandering or hanging about harmlessly, then sure, try to call or catch them - these dogs weren't, they were killing Bigdogs poultry. If I found 2 dogs (whether they were dingos, feral dogs or pet dogs) in the act of attacking & killing my animals - you can be sure there would not be a warning shot.

In the last week I have had 2 of my Maremmas injured by dogs (not seriously & recovering well) but my neighbour has not been so lucky - 6 goats mauled in one night, 2 whose injuries were so horrific they had to be destroyed, the other 4 will hopefully recover. No stock owner enjoys shooting dogs on their property - nor do they enjoy having their animals terrorised, mauled or killed.

[Crisovar]

I am sick of roaming dogs harassing stock and poultry, maiming and chasing for the fun they get out of it, putting horses and foals through fences.

And yes they can cause massive injuries and damage without even getting into the paddock.

It is about time people pulled their heads in took responsibility and secured their dogs.

Bigdogg you get no criticism from me

Many stock owners start off with hunting the dogs off, calling owners, warning shots etc, but you do get to the stage of zero tolerance.